Stage 1,2, or 3 Cam/heads
 

My 17 SS M6 Camaro currently has a Rotofab, TSP 1 7/8" headers with no cats, Pray performance ported IM/TB, and running E85. I am looking at taking the next step and doing heads/cam but i would like to understand the pros and cons of going with the Stage 1,2, or 3 setup. I love the way the stage 3 sounds but i do daily my car and have a 32 mile commute (95% interstate) each way to work. Any advice on which route to go? I am also looking at going with the ported MSD with this upgrade as well.

Thanks!

I’m running “stage 2” Texas speed cam and ported heads. It’s amazing, drivability is stock-ISH. It’s not crazy in traffic . Also ported. MSD does help up top.

I believe stage 3.. is if you’re not going to daily the car. I sat in stage 3 cam
Car (unknown specs) but car was a pin in traffic.

in my experience with 5 different "big cam" vehicles.... Drivability is largely based on your TUNER and their ability, not the cam itself.
Anything anyone will sell you OTS these days will drive fine with a good tuner. Any custom spec'd cam will drive likely even better as it will be spec'd for your goals (one of which will likely be drivability with proper tuning)

But if the tune sucks, the driving will suck.


FWIW - my 1LE had a cam that was aggressive enough to need valve reliefs cut in the pistons... First tuner didn't have enough experience with GENV stuff (specific the more advanced TQ management) and the car drove... okayy. I had a more experienced shop re-tune it and not only did it pick up about 20whp, but it then drove like stock with a lumpy idle. Not exaggerating either, I could putter around a parking lot letting it idle in first with pretty much no issue. All in the tune man.

Agreed, you can make a pretty aggressive cam drive nice with the right tuner. We've done some bigger builds with zero drivability issues. We have some cams that can really chop, make solid power and drive like stock.

Driveability would be the least of my concerns. DI engines with correct tuning can drive well with fairly large cams. What I would be concerned about is valve-train longevity. If this is your daily and will see lots of mileage, I would do a cam that is sub .600 lift and has mild lobes so it doesn't require heavy valve springs which will beat the snot out of the lifters. Don't expect a TSP stage 3 setup with LS7 lifters to make it much more then 10-12k miles before needing checked and likely replacing springs by 20k. I wouldn't even use LS7 lifters in this application but that is another story.

Cam motion is who I would contact to spec out a daily driver cam.

It depends on the tuner. So unless you can verify who did the tuning then it's a moot point.

That being said Cam overlap plays a huge factor in how well a cam behaves. The more overlap, the more un-burnt fuel makes it's way out the exhaust valves. On port injected LS engines I always thought it was best to keep overlap under 8 degrees for good street manners. I found 5 degrees to be on the high end of what i would consider for a true daily driver grind.

On DI I would keep overlap under 12 degrees and I personally wouldn't go more then 6-8 degrees if it's a daily. DI doesn't suffer from the same reversion issue since the fuel is sprayed directly into the combustion chamber in a much narrower window. So less un-burnt fuel makes it's way out the exhaust causing false lean conditions with the o2 sensors. The caveat with DI is understanding how to tune the Virtual Torque tables which will need work to get a cam car to behave. So that is where many tuners that don't understand Gen 5 ECU's will struggle.

It is interesting to note that the Hot Cam uses the stock valve springs, so IMO it should be near stock dependability or even better given LS7 lifters. I don't remember off hand but it was recommended 6600 limit, so the engine needs to be shifted just a little past peak HP, no big deal to keep the longevity of the build. Love GM engineers.

https://www.chevrolet.com/performanc...s/lt/lt376-535

Chevy does mid 10s with their hot cam and heads (note the 128 MPH is indication of HP,light car though).
https://www.chevrolet.com/performanc...maro/drag-race


As an aside, GM originally listed the Hot Cam at 112 LSA, it is really the same as the LT1 at 116.5. IF I KNEW THIS, I would have just gone with a Hot Cam even on my supercharge build (yes give up on the fuel lobe). To my mind is not practical to put a fast ramp high lift cam in any street car and doubly so to put on in a FI car that does not need any additional breathing. That's how much I hate fast lift cams on the street.

Thanks for the input guys! I had not heard of the valve-train wear concern before. I do put about 15k miles a year on the car so if that is true it could be an issue.

If i can do a ported 95mm TB, ported MSD, ported heads, and a Stage 2 cam from Pray or TSP and get around 570whp on E85 then i would be happy with that. I would love to get the sound of a stage 3 but not with the sacrifice of reliability.

reliability is based on lift and ramp profile not the stage. A stage 1 .640 lift cam is going to have the same reliability issues (other than peak RPM) as a stage 3 cam with .640 lift. It is an un-mutable fact that fast lift cams give big HP gains with less compromise in idle. It is an un-mutable fact that high lift fast ramp cams will fail faster than stock lift cams, GM is already pushing it at .570 lift for the street and GM just does not say yeah it should work, they have to provide a warranty.... everybody else can say it should work / last, till it comes to a warranty. The LS7 had a .593" and even that had "some" guide wear and rocker issues. FYI the LS7 has 100 lbs seat and 310 open with a fuel cut at 7100 RPM. I'm only saying this is what GM says is doable and provide a warranty.


I lived through the LS1 valvetrain failure wars. LIVED through it. I knew I should not have done it again. Well I'm done, I'll let all the other people that know everything build these street engines.... The ONLY thing I learned over the last 22 years was sub .600 lift and gentle profiles "maybe" can last.

Did you go with a cam yet? I’m trying to decide what one I’d like as well between a stage 2 or 3 for a daily driving & the occasional road course.

I loved my cammed 1LE, drove close to stock with a custom grind stage 2 cam. I will cam my next car, likely a 2022/2023 1LE. This time I will go even less aggressive, just want something with a nice rough idle but no serious chop, just got old as it was my only car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du6OJ2pxZ_c

I just pilled the trigger and a GPI SS1 cam and ported head package. I've been really happy working with them. I'm not trying to break records so I didn't want to go aggressive or change the drivability to much, plus I plan on going FI in the future.

I'm looking forward to doing the install and seeing how it turns out.

That thing sounds great!

I have a stg 3 cam with headers, e85 and daily driving isn’t a problem. Im also a manual 6 speed.