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DexnBlair 10-01-2020 07:59 AM

Performance Upgrade advice
 
Hello everyone, I just joined the Camaro world last night. I purchased a 2016 Camaro 2LT RS with the 2.0T engine. Which is weird for me as I am typically and old school muscle car guy and usually go for the V8 engines. Anyway, I am looking to do some simple upgrades to get some additional HP but not looking to go too far.

Here is what I am thinking of doing:
-Cold Air intake
-Larger Throttle Body
-E85 Conversion
-Downpipe
-Catch can
-Cat back exhaust or axle back exhaust
-PCM tune

Any advice on what order you would recommend? I wont be doing this all at once. Also, anything you would suggest I do different, etc? I am not a turbo knowledgeable guy so this is where I am starting, LOL

Thanks for the input everyone! Im looking forward to getting started!

Start The Machine 10-01-2020 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexnBlair (Post 10877570)
Hello everyone, I just joined the Camaro world last night. I purchased a 2016 Camaro 2LT RS with the 2.0T engine. Which is weird for me as I am typically and old school muscle car guy and usually go for the V8 engines. Anyway, I am looking to do some simple upgrades to get some additional HP but not looking to go too far.

Here is what I am thinking of doing:
-Cold Air intake
-Larger Throttle Body
-E85 Conversion
-Downpipe
-Catch can
-Cat back exhaust or axle back exhaust
-PCM tune

Any advice on what order you would recommend? I wont be doing this all at once. Also, anything you would suggest I do different, etc? I am not a turbo knowledgeable guy so this is where I am starting, LOL

Thanks for the input everyone! Im looking forward to getting started!



Cold Air intake = Don't waste your money here. The stock airbox works perfectly. Just install a "K&N style" stock filter into the box.

Larger Throttle Body = Definitely do this right away. Noticeable mid range pull even on a stock tune. ZZP, RPM Motorsports (yikes) and hopefully soon Solar Performance are your options for the larger 67mm Throttle Body.

E85 Conversion = If you have access to E85 fuel, #1 I hate you #2 do this install right away to have it ready. You may need additional tuning for this to work properly on a stock tune. You may want to wait until you get your car fully tuned when adding this.

Downpipe = Get a "catted" downpipe #1 it sounds better and #2 catless smell bad. I recommend Mishimoto or ZZP. Other brands charge way to much (aFe) and are sketchy A.F. (R.P.M. Motorsports).

Catch Can = I recommend the full Mishimoto set up. Do not use anything janky like "make your own" or ZZP's awful set up. Also, watch out for Tracy Lewis, the guy just never gives up.

Cat back exhaust or axle back exhaust = Again, I highly recommend the Mishimoto "Pro" Cat-Back Exhaust as it's absolutely the best sounding exhaust you can buy ($$$$). The Magnaflow cat-back sounds pretty good as well ($$$$). Then there's the mysterious Injen cat-back exhaust system that literally no one on earth has installed on their car ($$$$). Also, I really like the design lay out of the Injen set up. I can almost guarantee this exhaust is going to sound really good on this car (from past experiences with their exhaust on other cars). I can't hold it against you if you can't swing the insanely expensive cat-back systems. I'm not to sure on axle-back options because none of them sound good to me. People seem to like the Borla or Flowmaster axle-back though. Whatever you do, DON'T BE A CHEEP ASS and do the god-forsaken "muffler delete". I can't stress to you how awful it sounds. Do not let anyone tell you differently. This car absolutely needs some sort of muffler to sound tolerable. If you can't afford an exhaust, leave the stock suitcase muffler on. Thank you.

PCM tune = Trifecta, Cooper's Camaro, Vermont Tuning. DO NOT USE THE FOLLOWING "TUNERS" - ZZP (no gains), BNR (blow up your motor and disappear), RPM Motorsports (just no), yourself (your not Wook Wook) or your friends garage (this car is extremely complicated to tune).

you are also forgetting:
Air Intake Tube
Charge Pipes
Intercooler
Larger Turbo
JackFab/BNR Recirculation Valve

DexnBlair 10-01-2020 08:58 PM

Thank you STM, great information.

Cold air intake - I appreciate it.

Throttle Body - Is RPM the RPM in Garner, NC? If so, I am only about two hours away from them. Would be nice to have a local shop that knows these cars.

E85 - Yea a good portion of the gas stations here have it. And my brother works for Fisher Oil so I can order it from him by the 55 gallon drum.

Down pipe- thanks, I am all about the sound so I will defiantly look into the "Catted" down pipe.

Catch Can - The Mishimoto looks awesome. Will defiantly add that one to the list

Exhaust- I am one that if I am going to do something, I am going to get quality. So I will spend the money if it is worth it. Just not familiar with these enough to know.

PCM- thanks for the info. I see you dont recommend RPM, if it is the one in Garner, that sucks. Was getting excited about having a local shop that could work on a tune for my car.

Thanks for the additional list. Im going to get a list together of parts w/ prices and set a budget so I can spend the money over time, but be able to get quality.

I grew up racing. Been around performance cars all my life. But they were all old school Mopars and Chevys. Gotta say, even stock I am impressed with the performance of the engine. Cannot wait to start working on it...

Start The Machine 10-01-2020 10:10 PM

No worries. This car is a ton of fun to work on and responds extremely well to bolt-ons. You can easily do all of your own wrenching in your garage with a simple set of mechanics tools.

The RPM Motorsports that supports these cars is located in Arizona. The RPM by you looks like a legitimate speed shop. However, I don't think they tune these GM ecotec engines. I could be wrong though. I would ask them if you could borrow their dyno and remote tune with Coopers Camaro. I'm sure they have an hourly rate to use it. Dyno tuning is the ultimate way to dial in your tune. Even if it's done remotely on the fly.

DexnBlair 10-01-2020 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Start The Machine (Post 10877976)
No worries. This car is a ton of fun to work on and responds extremely well to bolt-ons. You can easily do all of your own wrenching in your garage with a simple set of mechanics tools.

The RPM Motorsports that supports these cars is located in Arizona. The RPM by you looks like a legitimate speed shop. However, I don't think they tune these GM ecotec engines. I could be wrong though. I would ask them if you could borrow their dyno and remote tune with Coopers Camaro. I'm sure they have an hourly rate to use it. Dyno tuning is the ultimate way to dial in your tune. Even if it's done remotely on the fly.

Thanks a ton.

DexnBlair 10-02-2020 08:44 AM

OK, here is what I am looking at after some additional research and your feedback:

Stage 1
ZZP Throttle body Kit
ZZP Turbo Head Shield (I am sure it does nothing, but it looks cool)
Vermont Tuning E85 Flex Fuel Upgrade W/ Tune

Stage 2
Mishimoto Catted Down Pipe
Mishimoto Catch Can System
Mishimoto Pro Cat-Back Exhaust

Additional Add On's as money works
ZZP Intake Tube
ZZP Intercooler Kit w/ charge pipes
ZZP Big Wheel Turbo
BNR Recirculation Valve

Take a look and tell me what you think. Also if you have a suggestion of any specific order you think I need to move around. Also, what ball park HP gain do you think I am looking at?

Start The Machine 10-02-2020 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexnBlair (Post 10878126)
OK, here is what I am looking at after some additional research and your feedback:

Stage 1
ZZP Throttle body Kit
ZZP Turbo Head Shield (I am sure it does nothing, but it looks cool)
Vermont Tuning E85 Flex Fuel Upgrade W/ Tune

Stage 2
Mishimoto Catted Down Pipe
Mishimoto Catch Can System
Mishimoto Pro Cat-Back Exhaust

Additional Add On's as money works
ZZP Intake Tube
ZZP Intercooler Kit w/ charge pipes
ZZP Big Wheel Turbo
BNR Recirculation Valve

Take a look and tell me what you think. Also if you have a suggestion of any specific order you think I need to move around. Also, what ball park HP gain do you think I am looking at?


1. ZZP Throttle Body *this will require an aftermarket cold side charge pipe to fit the larger diameter Throttle Body.Get either Mishimoto or Injen. Don't get a janky "half pipe", get a full length piece. Injen is more affordable. Like everything on this list, you will need to shop around. Also, ZZP has a very aggressive black Friday campaign every year. You may want to wait on anything ZZP for that. Other companies have good deals as well during black Friday. Mishimoto has a points discount system you can put toward future purchases.

2. ZZP catted downpipe (Mishimoto is better quality but will throw a harmless emissions code (CEL) until you get tuned or have the ability to permanently turn the code off)

3. JackFab/BNR Recirculation Valve. You are going to use this upgrade on every turbo you get including the stock turbo. Like the larger Throttle Body, this mod has noticeable mid and upper RPM pull in the powerband even on a stock tune. There is another company that makes one of these for our car called Go Fast Bits. The first wave of parts were totally defective junk. I believe they have fixed the issue since then. I still wouldn't buy from them though. *these will throw a harmless CEL on occasion. This CEL will go away with you get tuned or again, have the equipment to permanently turn off the code.

4. E85 kit and tune only after you have installed the Throttle Body w/Cold Side Charge Pipe, Downpipe & Recirculation Valve. I say this because it will save you time and money going back and forth tuning everything.

Those 5 mods are a perfect starting point for you. You will be extremely happy with this base set up especially running E85 (huge power advantage). Most people stop there and are content with it. You can go much further with it (and your wallet).

Your absolute next move will be an aftermarket turbo and re-tune. Be mindful of your stock rods and pistons here. Don't go crazy on to big of a turbo if you don't plan on cracking the motor open ($$$$$$). I'm absolutely in love with my Mach5 Stage2 Hybrid Turbo I got from Trifecta. Perfect for stock internals. Turbo Bay, Vermont Tuning, TPC and ZZP all make awesome turbo upgrades for this car as well.

Also, I would highly recommend adding additional touches:
1. Add the Hot Side Charge Pipe
2. PTP Turbo Blanket
3. Mishimoto Intercooler ($$$$)
4. MSD Ignition Coils
5. Better Spark Plugs
6. Mishimoto Oil Cooler ($$$$)

*Don't waste your money on the ZZP heat shield. Spend your money on something that actually works like the PTP Turbo Blanket that is made specifically for our turbo set up.

18i4m6 10-03-2020 03:55 PM

All good advice, I wanted to add that you can beat the CEL on the Mishi catted pipe with an 02 sensor spacer on the lower sensor. You'll love the car, I've had it almost 2 years now and its still lotsa fun. My best recorded 0-60 is 5.4 but with better tires I'm sure high 4's would be standard. Half a second slower than the V8 is good enough for me. Especially when I just used 7 liters per km on a 400km trip! It's like the best of all worlds. (I'd still like a 2020 Corvette, but it is what it is lol)

DexnBlair 10-03-2020 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Start The Machine (Post 10878300)
1. ZZP Throttle Body *this will require an aftermarket cold side charge pipe to fit the larger diameter Throttle Body.Get either Mishimoto or Injen. Don't get a janky "half pipe", get a full length piece. Injen is more affordable. Like everything on this list, you will need to shop around. Also, ZZP has a very aggressive black Friday campaign every year. You may want to wait on anything ZZP for that. Other companies have good deals as well during black Friday. Mishimoto has a points discount system you can put toward future purchases.

2. ZZP catted downpipe (Mishimoto is better quality but will throw a harmless emissions code (CEL) until you get tuned or have the ability to permanently turn the code off)

3. JackFab/BNR Recirculation Valve. You are going to use this upgrade on every turbo you get including the stock turbo. Like the larger Throttle Body, this mod has noticeable mid and upper RPM pull in the powerband even on a stock tune. There is another company that makes one of these for our car called Go Fast Bits. The first wave of parts were totally defective junk. I believe they have fixed the issue since then. I still wouldn't buy from them though. *these will throw a harmless CEL on occasion. This CEL will go away with you get tuned or again, have the equipment to permanently turn off the code.

4. E85 kit and tune only after you have installed the Throttle Body w/Cold Side Charge Pipe, Downpipe & Recirculation Valve. I say this because it will save you time and money going back and forth tuning everything.

Those 5 mods are a perfect starting point for you. You will be extremely happy with this base set up especially running E85 (huge power advantage). Most people stop there and are content with it. You can go much further with it (and your wallet).

Your absolute next move will be an aftermarket turbo and re-tune. Be mindful of your stock rods and pistons here. Don't go crazy on to big of a turbo if you don't plan on cracking the motor open ($$$$$$). I'm absolutely in love with my Mach5 Stage2 Hybrid Turbo I got from Trifecta. Perfect for stock internals. Turbo Bay, Vermont Tuning, TPC and ZZP all make awesome turbo upgrades for this car as well.

Also, I would highly recommend adding additional touches:
1. Add the Hot Side Charge Pipe
2. PTP Turbo Blanket
3. Mishimoto Intercooler ($$$$)
4. MSD Ignition Coils
5. Better Spark Plugs
6. Mishimoto Oil Cooler ($$$$)

*Don't waste your money on the ZZP heat shield. Spend your money on something that actually works like the PTP Turbo Blanket that is made specifically for our turbo set up.


Thanks for all the help, STM it is much appreciated. And thank you for the tip on Black Friday. Since we are already in October it makes sense to wait, its not that far away.

Did drove 400 miles today w/ my father-in-law. He is an old school guy that thinks it is blasphemy putting a 4 banger in a Camaro. Even stock, it shocked him. Running 50 behind a car in a 55, I passed and when I did I punched it. I was at 80 MPH before I got to the front of the car I was passing. I wish I had a pic of my father-in-laws face.

Start The Machine 10-03-2020 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexnBlair (Post 10878877)
Thanks for all the help, STM it is much appreciated. And thank you for the tip on Black Friday. Since we are already in October it makes sense to wait, its not that far away.

Did drove 400 miles today w/ my father-in-law. He is an old school guy that thinks it is blasphemy putting a 4 banger in a Camaro. Even stock, it shocked him. Running 50 behind a car in a 55, I passed and when I did I punched it. I was at 80 MPH before I got to the front of the car I was passing. I wish I had a pic of my father-in-laws face.

Wait till you start running a tuned E85 blend. There are only 2 e85 gas pumps in the entire state where I live :noidea:

I would start saving up now for the ZZP black Friday specials.

18i4m6 10-03-2020 10:23 PM

Mishi had ridiculous black Friday too.. I scored the cai for 150 and the catted downpipe for 200
Bnr boostolator was 20 bucks off too

wookwook 10-04-2020 06:58 PM

Yah its been a while seems more conversation on FB now, but its pretty much all the same recycled questions. Hopefully the forums will come back.

Been still working hard on the rig. some notes for better or worst.

CAI - OK so I came back through on my efforts on tuning its more or less a go around and checking air fuel (water hah!).
Its a little science here, but I see my Air flow and the associated MAF Hz that represents Air = So I have noticed that with the bigger turbo wheel that my logs are topping the 10K Hz max range in the MAF read (tune) table. Tuner table shows 10K at the top end and I have been just about running over that by a few hundred Hz, aka off the measurable chart. Having found a couple of articles, eh, it seems to extrapolate fine in my logs, but I am thinking now finally getting a bigger breather tube. it will let more air mass flow and jiggle the MAF wire less in proportion to letting more air pass and be measured, so it will come back into scale of the tables with a new calibration. Its slight and I am resisting the $300 layout, but for what its worth, Its a worthy upgrade in this situation. Have been running a KR drop in.

Throttle Body, I am not sure yet. so we can log pressure in the manifold which is after the TB. in my situation logging seen peak at 30 psi with a e-mechanical gauge on the cold side pipe. (Snow Gauge with a silicon tube). Reading other (gen5 v8 and big boy FI) posters, if your running boost, things like TB and headers aren't the best bang for you buck with FI to start. I may revisit this one.

E85 - if you have access at the pump its worth while. Not nitro methane but it does add power, but not worth 12 bucks a gallon to run 5 runs at the strip since I have to buy it in 5 gallon bulk cans.

Downpipe- if your conscious is OK with green house gasses, you need to rethink what a 350 HP engine is going to give you on a DD for thumbing your nose at Greenland.. Go catted and sleep at night. No, legally its like why? its just not that much air extra flow. Get a free breathing exhaust and you'll be fine.

Catch can- never really figured that out. You will want the lube to hit your diverter hopefully a Jacfab valve. BOL works instantaneously to recirculate boost air, and holds boost long and hard. the rest of the fog is condensation which water is not bad to burn. OK so SIDI maintenance is up in the air. I don't think there is a worry free solution other that periodic walnut blasting.

Exhaust - what ever you pick it will be LOUD, the rear skin is thin. You will want a resonator in the mid pipe or it will just be raspy and LOUD.

Tune- you will need to open the ECU and get a basic Torque bump in there and a MAF calibration. The over the counter email tuners (ZZP is trustworthy) will have a basic starter Torque request table that will align the demand tables to use the Turbo reserve boost. Its very safe. Its hard to eff up a decent canned tune. People manage to do it. Air quality affects this turbo engine a lot. 60s F air is good and you will see the denser air fun. People - Hot summer air affects this engine, its a fact. That said there 'are' advanced tuner table strategies to consider, but with a stock turbo and a canned tune, your in 325 HP land. But that's still pretty good.

IC pipes are a good and easy mod. If you ever want to add a bung for MW (highly recommend) its the only way, and the black Mishi Black friday sale watch for.

I haven't seen any reason to mess with spark- but since spraying water, that side of things hasn't been an issue. Running full gap on OEM plugs, its the ping preignition that is the problem that everyone is chasing. ping no longer an issue whatsoever.

Snow Boost Cooler. I've been running it since the spring. Total faith. Spraying water into a bung on the low end of the cool side IC pipe. It really is plug and play and can you bump timing about 2-4 degrees given this hot summer was a good test hitting 6 degrees easily at WOT. It works. and refills are cheap. Yeah its windshield fluid, It simply works. Cooler IAT and some alky to burn. Its completely stable and efficient. Check out MB and BMW M4 GT. WM is the new cool kid on the block. And it may be going more mainstream.

Turbo Blanket. I don't quite get it so much. I just personally think shedding heat is OK. This thing burns at 1850F EGT, very extreme cat temps already.

FMIC - with MW available its not really a requirement for cost and work. We have sitting heat soak. yeah the IC is sandwiched in the radiator and AC and that sucks. Yet air to air 'seems' like its doing what it should if you provide air flow and no real latency issues as with Air to Water.

Get a throttle controller, it will make the TP respond quicker and give more of a carburator engine feel.


Hopefully that helps with your Mods.

DexnBlair 10-08-2020 08:15 PM

Hey STM,

question about the Mishimoto oil catch system. They have two, which one would you recommend?

95TA - The Beast 10-08-2020 09:02 PM

DexnBlair, actually Mishimoto only shows one for the 2.0T engine. The other that comes up is for the SS.

The one from Mishimoto for the 2.0T is a dual catch can setup, one for the PCV side, the other for the CCV side.

I have the same setup for the Cadillac variation.


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