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-   -   Planned Mods, Your Thoughts? (Intermediate Intake Pipe, Catch Can, Boost Regulator) (https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563450)

Vne182 10-10-2019 09:27 AM

Planned Mods, Your Thoughts? (Intermediate Intake Pipe, Catch Can, Boost Regulator)
 
Thanks again for the help suggesting I read intake manifold pressure for a boost reading!
Here are my initial thoughts after owning the car for a couple of weeks. At my altitude, even with 45-degree temps, the turbo is making 21psi to get my car to the factory torque numbers. It's fairly obvious that the compressor wheel envelope is maxed out with the car falling on its face above 6000 rpm. In the summertime with higher density altitudes and cruising up into my 10,000' mountains, it's going to be much worse. Tuning this car doesn't make sense with such a choked turbo. When purchasing the car, I was hoping for 400 horsepower with a tune and bolt-ons but that no longer seems possible.* I've come to find out that the car needs a much bigger turbo, and to be safe, probably a new set of pistons/rods.* My experience with adding boost over the last 20 years would dictate that you start with something fast to make it faster, like my '02 SS Fbody running a GT67. There are too many 500 horsepower factory cars that can be bought today, it doesn't make sense to throw a ton of money at a Stripper LS Camaro.

With that said, I still would like to smooth out the boost pressure and make life a bit easier for the Turbo.
Mod #1 - Straight pipe exhaust. Already installed and it sounds great.

Mod #2 - Catch can, I'm not seeing anything from the factory that would prevent carbon build up on the intake valves. I had an R56 JCW Mini which required annual intake valve cleaning and it was a major PITA. One thing I really loved about my Abarth is that she always ran clean with port injection. Who has installed a catch can?
Can I get away with a $50 Amazon generic catch can, maybe when I install the intake? If I install a non-vented catch can, it seems like it wouldn't throw any codes.

Mod #3 - Louder intake. The factory airbox looks like an excellent design but that intake tube with the integrated muffler looks like it may cause some restrictions in order to silence any turbo noise. I would really like to retain the factory MAF location and airbox, has anyone found a solution that offers an intermediate intake pipe between the MAF tube and turbo?

Mod#4 - Boost regulator/JacFab? Does this actually smooth boost regulation for more consistent power delivery? Does this throw a CEL on the stock tune as well?

Your thoughts?

Evil-Bee-NH 10-10-2019 10:13 AM

Catch can can only help. If you live in a cooler wet climate you will need to drain them more often because of condensation.

The airbox/intake tube is a good replacement mishimoto or zzp make just the tube add the K&N drop in filter and your golden.

As far as the BNR/JacFab Boost-o-lator I've been trying to stay 100% positive with this however recently a few had issues keeping them oiled. I haven't i check mine every few oil changes anyway. My thought is the stock valve may have had the leak intentionally to disperse moisture build-up. The actual part does what it's intended to do but requires that extra bit of observation every so often. So if your serious about eeking everything out then get it if your a casual may never race or go full bolt-on and tune there's no need for the extra work.

zts1986 10-10-2019 10:14 AM

http://store.badnewsracing.net/BNR-H...lve_p_677.html
https://zzperformance.com/collection...d-ltg-downpipe
https://zzperformance.com/collection...ne-intake-tube
https://zzperformance.com/collection...-in-air-filter

These four components will run you $730 and completely change the way the turbo responds. I'm not sure that the straight pipe really does anything for you. The stock downpipe is really what chokes this thing.

This is the most simple thing you can do to get performance out of the car without going the route of a tune. But add a tune on top of all of that and you'll be very happy.

Vne182 10-10-2019 10:25 AM

Thank you, Gentlemen. I ordered that intake pipe and am trying to find a 2019 Catch Can that isn't $450! Wouldn't the catted downpipe also throw a CEL?

wookwook 10-10-2019 11:08 AM

+1

cooper1965 10-10-2019 12:38 PM

My advice would be to save all the money on those 4 mods, and buy a tune. You could get a very nice tune for a few hundred bucks. (Multiple options there.) Spend 200 for your credits, and find a buddy with hptuners. That $4-500 spent, will yield WAAYY more than any bolt on combination alone could ever hope for. You might be surprised what the stock turbo is capable of. Guys are running mid-low 12's with a few bolt-ons, a tire, and a "GOOD" tune. At the end of the day, you will own your own credits and your tune, and be way ahead of the game. You will also have the luxury of continually monitoring your cars health, and making changes at any time. (p.s. , your 19' is flex fuel capable with the correct tune and sensor installed)

Start The Machine 10-10-2019 02:13 PM

This car is totally choked out by the stock programed ECU. The stock ECU is programed to shut down any gains it senses beyond the stock settings. Technically, you will notice very slight gains in low to mid power band with aftermarket bolt-on's, but than it shuts the party down. This is why an aftermarket tune is so important for these cars.

Than there's the debate as to when you add bolt-on's to the car. Before the tune? or after the tune and re-tuning?

There is no debate though that these bolt-on's help some:

1. Catted or cattless downpipe

2. Intake tube off of the stock air box w/K&N (or similar) stock drop in air filter (do-not do an "open air intake")

3. The BNR/JacFab aftermarket recirculation valve (BOL) for the stock turbo

4. Larger 67mm GM Throttle Body (ZZP takes it a step further and "mills out" the back side for a true straight through 67mm)

5. Larger hot and especially cold side charge pipes if you are doing a larger throttle body

Optional but extremely recommended IMO:

If you don't have the optional GM HD Cooling Package from the factory on your car already, you must get an aftermarket oil cooler like the one Mishimoto sells. (I know, they want your first born child in exchange for it). You might be able to make your own set up with some engineering.

Aftermarket Intercooler either, front mounted from ZZP or stock location like Mishimoto sells. (Again, they are going to ask you to sell your soul for it.) You might be able to make your own set up with some engineering.

PTP Turbo Blanket to keep the hot side hot and more importantly keeping the cold side cold and under hood temps down.

Upgrade your coolant to something better than the stock stuff that's in there now like Liquid Chill or similar.

Always change your oil way sooner than later with full synthetic Mobil1 or similar quality.

You can see the trend here, doing everything you can to keep this engine as cool as possible especially if you are doing an aftermarket tune and turning up the boost. The stock pistons don't like a ton of excessive heat.

This is just my 2 cents...

zts1986 10-10-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vne182 (Post 10637518)
Thank you, Gentlemen. I ordered that intake pipe and am trying to find a 2019 Catch Can that isn't $450! Wouldn't the catted downpipe also throw a CEL?

The catted DP does not throw a CEL. There are ports for your O2 sensors and all is well. Source: me, who has the catted DP and doesnt have a tune.

zts1986 10-10-2019 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper1965 (Post 10637630)
My advice would be to save all the money on those 4 mods, and buy a tune. You could get a very nice tune for a few hundred bucks. (Multiple options there.) Spend 200 for your credits, and find a buddy with hptuners. That $4-500 spent, will yield WAAYY more than any bolt on combination alone could ever hope for. You might be surprised what the stock turbo is capable of. Guys are running mid-low 12's with a few bolt-ons, a tire, and a "GOOD" tune. At the end of the day, you will own your own credits and your tune, and be way ahead of the game. You will also have the luxury of continually monitoring your cars health, and making changes at any time. (p.s. , your 19' is flex fuel capable with the correct tune and sensor installed)

I'll finely say it...I have no idea what this "credits" thing is all about for tunes. Would anybody care to explain this process to me, please?

cooper1965 10-10-2019 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zts1986 (Post 10637722)
I'll finely say it...I have no idea what this "credits" thing is all about for tunes. Would anybody care to explain this process to me, please?

Your PCM requires 4 credits ($200) to be purchased if you wish to unlock it, and modify it with Hptuners software. Those credits only follow the Hptuners devise that was used to purchase those credits. Once you purchase those credits, you are free to modify, and write your tune file as many times, and as often as you wish.

zts1986 10-10-2019 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper1965 (Post 10637839)
Your PCM requires 4 credits ($200) to be purchased if you wish to unlock it, and modify it with Hptuners software. Those credits only follow the Hptuners devise that was used to purchase those credits. Once you purchase those credits, you are free to modify, and write your tune file as many times, and as often as you wish.

I still don’t exactly understand. Is this to have somebody unlock it so that I can tune it myself? Can’t I just take my car somewhere and pay somebody to do what is needed and not deal with “credits” or whatever other shit?

Is there a way to earn credits other than paying $200? Why not just say that it costs $800?

cooper1965 10-11-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zts1986 (Post 10637914)
I still don’t exactly understand. Is this to have somebody unlock it so that I can tune it myself? Can’t I just take my car somewhere and pay somebody to do what is needed and not deal with “credits” or whatever other shit?

Is there a way to earn credits other than paying $200? Why not just say that it costs $800?


If you take your car somewhere else, and they pay the credits on their device, they own your tune, not you. You will be stuck with whatever you leave there with as far as a tune. No changes can be made by you unless you buy credits again on your own device, or go back and pay for a retune. If you don't think you will ever want or need or have the desire to even make the most simplest of changes to your car yourself, then sure, have someone else do it and take care of the credits on their device. To me, that would be silly though. Its really a very simple process, and a matter of a few button clicks to buy the credits. It sounds much worse than it is.

Zzsteve 10-11-2019 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zts1986 (Post 10637914)
I still don’t exactly understand. Is this to have somebody unlock it so that I can tune it myself? Can’t I just take my car somewhere and pay somebody to do what is needed and not deal with “credits” or whatever other shit?

Is there a way to earn credits other than paying $200? Why not just say that it costs $800?

when you purchase HPTuner, you are only purchasing the interface. HPT charges on a "per VIN" type setup. they chose to do the 'credits' setup due to varying cost between platforms. most older GM cars only take 2 credits ($100) to unlock a VIN. many new cars will take 4 for the engine, and 4 more for the transmission. the credits can be purchased directly from HPT as needed, or you can 'load' your device with some up front if you are a professional tuner, and plan to tune dozens of cars. they sell credits at different prices, depending if you are a vendor, a regular dude, or some other promotion/special. its easiest to just use the credit/token type setup.

wookwook 10-11-2019 08:34 AM

What Cooper said. I feel if your in to the car for the long haul you will want options and especially control of you own code, for whatever reason.

I went this route and bought a ZZP tune. Sat down with it for a couple weeks to research all the settings. Matt was really great following up with me. I got what I was expecting, great timely email answers, a simple exchange of files and a really great response to MAF touch up.

The virtues of in-house vs on the road logging for another discussion, but it is totally not a huge deal since we have a built-in O2 sensor for lambda readings, I can go into detail how to fill the data table with good counts. There are a couple of utubes on the process.

In its most basic form it might seem analogous to tuning a stereo system equalizer. ( over simplification I know).


Cmon - were the thrill seekers here!

If you want to be conscious during neurosurgery its worth the price of admission. Otherwise go with general anesthesia and wake up when its done. But in the case of the latter you can't get x-rays to see if they left any tools in there.

W+1.


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