Picking an Entry Level Track Pad for Street driving and Tracking with slicks
 

Hello,
I have read through all the brake pad threads I can find on this forum and I’m looking for advice on what brake pads to start trying for dual purpose street/track; street tires on the street and slicks on the track.
I’m going with slicks simply because we can get used sets so cheap and I can’t stomach buying SC3R tires after every 2 or 3 track days when these slicks are available at a fraction of the price. I know this setup will mean significant compromises and while I don’t know that I’ll end up being ok with that compromise, I need to try it or I won’t know.


So far my list of potential entry level race pads to try out includes;

Raybesto ST43: These seem to have medium bite (.38mu average at 650 degree Celsius), work in the cold and aren’t that expensive but I’ve heard these are hard to modulate. Besides one members experience with them everyone else seems to feel they don’t fade at high temps.

Pagid RSL29: This pad seems to be similar to the ST43 in that it has medium bite (but a bit better than the ST43 with a mu of .44 at 500 degree Celsius and .4 at 700 degree Celsius). It’s also more expensive than the ST43. Apparently it’s an endurance compound. I haven’t found anyone on the forum that’s tried these yet.

Hawk Street/Race: These seem to be roughly the same as the Hawk DCT30, their chart shows crazy high friction mu levels (.65) compared to the previously mentioned pads, they seem like they’d bite reasonably well in the cold based on the graph and resist fade seems to be up to around 600 degree Celsius with mu being shown at around .4 at 620 degree Celsius (however I don’t know if the manufactures graphs can be trusted). They seem reasonably priced too even though apparently the dust can be bad for wheels unless cleaned off within a week. Being one step below Hawk Blue tells me they’d be more street friendly and being one step above Hawk HP Plus tells me they’d better for slicks. I haven’t found anyone on the forum that’s tried these yet on the track

Porterfield R4: Porterfield says the R-4 has slightly less friction than the ST43 or RSL29 and wont last as long either, nor is temp range as high as the ST43 or RS29. The cold friction on the R-4 is a little better than the other two. The R-4 will be as rotor friendly as the others as well. The R-4’s squeal.



The pads that did not make my "to try" list were the;

Ferodo DS1.11 since those that have used them here seem to say they are a step up from pads like the ST43 and don’t work without being warm at or above 200 degree Celsius. While the Ferodo 4003 seems like it could work but I haven’t seen it available for the Camaro ZL1.

Gloc and Carbotech XP 8/10/12 got crossed off the list because members here say that don’t last long once they are at high temps with our heavy cars and I can’t see not being at high temps considering the track, the weight of the car and the slicks I will have on. The manufacturers seem to say they were meant for lighter cars under 2900lbs. I suppose I’d be open to the XP12 if it had good street manners but I don’t think it does.

Cobalt friction XR3 pads are crazy expensive, so I’m not interested in those unless they offer a good value for the money that I’m unaware of, but I haven’t done any research on them.





Here are the restrictions/situation I’m working within;

My experience level: I’m just ending my first season tracking, I will have done about 8 track days by the end of this season. I’ve never driven anything other than the stock set up for street or track. I’m not looking for advice on weather or not I should be going to slicks in my 2nd or 3rd tracking season, I’ve been given lots already from members on this forum thanks.

The track I’m on: A difficult and hard on brakes and tires track with few short straightaways and many corners (19 corners on track that I do in the 1:23's seconds after starting in the 1:26’s earlier this season).

Dual Purpose: I don’t want to change brake pads between events if I can avoid it (I plan on doing 2 a month during the spring and summer), in other words I’m looking for something I’m not going to hate while driving on the street that will work with slicks even if they are not ideal (I know there will be better pads for slicks out there). I understand this will mean some compromises.

Street: I can’t handle a lot of squealing, this is one area that will just make me hate driving my car on the street, I don’t mind a little squealing until they get warmer. I don’t mind lots of dust. For rotor wear I don’t need something that is easy on rotors but I don’t want something brutal on rotors either, I am ok with replacing them once a year. As for cold friction, it doesn’t need to be as good as stock but it can’t be horrible because I don’t want to get into an accident on the street.

Track: I’m not looking for the greatest stopping power here, I know that having a street/track pad means I won’t get the best stopping power at high temps and that I probably won’t be able to maximize the grip of the slicks and that’s ok. What I don’t want is to generate so much heat, like I assume I will with the stock pads and slicks combo, that they are operating way out of their temp range and I end up having horrible stopping power etc... In other words I want something that works and keeps working even if it’s just medium friction and stopping power. I would like to be able to modulate the brakes, my only experience so far is with the stock pads which seem easy to modulate. I also want something that isn't going to only last me only a couple track days, they don't have to last a really long time but I don't want them lasting only 2 track days if possible.




I'm trying to strike a balance where the cost savings of the slicks don't just end up costing me the difference or more in pads, rotors and changing oil from 15w50 track oil back to 0w40 street/track oil between every event.

I want to be the first to say I have no idea what rotors and caliper temps I have been experiencing or will be experiencing.

Lastly, when it comes to brake pads, I have no idea if I can trust the friction vs heat charts/graphs that brake pad manufacturers put out. For example Carbotech and Hawk seem to have much higher levels of friction in their pads than Ferodo and Raybesto.

If you are already swapping wheels and tires, swapping pads too is easy. Why waste a good pad on the street? Good track pads make lots of noise. You can compromise if you want but I wouldn't recommend it. If you are worried about running costs I'd stick with the oem pads because any pad that's more aggressive will go through rotors quicker and ZLE rotors ain't cheap. It's really nice to have a set of street pads you only have to worry about replacing once a year instead of every few events.

How much driving do you do on average track day? I just switched to a sub 2900 lbs car because running the ZL1 got too costly. Pads still only last me 2 days, tires maybe 3-4. I am normally on track for 3 plus hours though.

Seems to me if you don't trust the mfr's information you might as well just tack a list of pad compounds up on the wall and throw darts at it.

If you have temperature concerns with 8/10/12 Carbotech/G-loc pads rated to 1250/1475/1850 degrees F (675/800/1010 C) respectively, there is no reason to expect the Hawk DTC30/Street-Race compound at ~800°F optimal/1200°F listed max (425/650 C) to be any better (especially given how fast mu drops off on the high end, there's hardly anything left at 1250°F).


Norm

You may have to loosen your restrictions a bit. Either learn to live with a bit more noise or accept the burden of constantly swapping pads.

I have found that track pads in street duty don't make as much noise, or as often, when you can consistently use them harder than necessary. IOW, it's gentle, low-energy braking that's most likely to produce noise. At any rate, your reaction to this is mostly psychological. If the way you see your car makes the leap from street first/occasional track to "the track car that I happen to drive on the street", you may not mind it as much. Hell, I hardly even hear the little squeaks any more.

At 8 events/season, I wouldn't count on getting a full season out of any pad. IOW, you'll have opportunity enough to experiment with different compounds. Just sand or resurface the rotors when swapping to a potentially non-compatible pad.


You're going to drive yourself nuts trying to justify what it takes to support this habit using an economics-based business approach.


Norm

I really feel like stock pads fit the bill for what you are describing. Race pads won’t necessarily last much longer and will cost more. Are you fading them or is your complaint that they aren’t lasting long enough.

If you are set on a race compound than you really should just bite the bullet and swap them out for track days to get the best of both worlds. Just my .02 cents.

I agree with the above poster, it sounds like stock pads will fit the bill of what you are looking for.

In your last couple of points, it really seems like you want a dual-use pad. They simply don't exist. You'll either have really poor rotor wear on the street with track pads, or very bad pad performance on the track with 'performance street pads'. I learned the hard way on my M3 and melted a set of DTC30's I paid good money for, didn't even last me a day before they crumbled out of my caliper. Granted, I was a beginner at that point and probably braking incorrectly. I enjoyed my DTC60's last season, however, they only lasted me 14 sessions.

I have a set of R12's in right now, and they do not make a ton of noise on the street, maybe a little bit. They perform well enough on the street and pair well with slicks on track. Dust like crazy but they are livable.

I would learn to change your own pads if you do not already, not only for swapping between pads but for diagnosing at the track. It takes me about 5 minutes per corner and is very very easy to do on this car.

I've been driving my Hawk DTC-70s and DTC-60s on both track and street. Zero noise, but a lot of dust (I don't really care, just FYI as it bothers some people).

I commute 106 interstate miles per day, with frequent (high-speed) stop and go. I actually prefer having the racing pads for DD and to me there isn't enough "wear and tear" to make it worth swapping back and forth.

The DTC-60s are a nice "next step" pad for the track and work very well on the street, if you don't mind the dust.

Another vote for Halk DTC 70/60 combo.
Great on track, great on the street. Only downside is that they’re dusty.

This has to be the most idiotic titled post ever. Street pad and race slicks shouldnt even be in the same sentence let alone anything dual purpose.

I'm assuming you have an extra set of wheel and not driving the slicks around town regularly. If this is the case you might as well get an extra set of pads seeings your already swapping rims OR just run race pads on the steet. I have both ferrodo ds1.11 and 3.12 and drive on street occasionally with zero issues or sketchiness.

I go to Sonoma Raceway and it’s known to be the most technical track in North America. Turn 7 at Sonoma has me braking from 115 mph to 45-50 mph. I’ve never noticed a need to change to aftermarket pads. Try changing brake fluid first and see if that helps. I would also find the limit of your brakes by pushing the pedal in hard enough to activate the ABS. That’s 10. If you find you’re hitting the ABS a lot after knowing the limit then start thinking pads.

I run GY SC 3Rs and did 5 track days on the rears and 4 on the fronts. I could probably get another day, 5 25 minutes sessions, before chording the fronts. If you’re only doing 8 days/year that’s two sets of tires a year. Not bad in most people’s book. Like someone said, this thing we’re into is expensive. You gotta play to play.

I get you don’t wanna hear this but from one guy with the same experience level to another.. don’t buy slicks.

Stock.

You'll be fine.

There is a difference between distrusting a manufactures information and trusting a manufactures information, if I was going to throw darts at a wall I wouldn't be asking members on this forum would I?

My temp concerns for Carbotech/Gloc pads were based on what members on this forum said about Carbotech/Gloc. I have not seen what members on this forum have said about Hawk, again that is why I am asking.

Glad to hear of your experience, I didn't realize that made a difference regarding noise, thanks, I understand that you could very well be right about the restrictions I have, they are what I am hoping for rather than being based of off any realistic experience.

You may very well be right about "drive yourself nuts trying to justify what it takes to support this habit using an economics-based business approach." it wouldn't be the first time I've done that haha, that's potentially some sound wisdom.

Yeah I have no idea what to expect the life of a pad to be at the track but I'm not surprised I'd have to replace a pad during the tracking season if doing 8 to 10 events, I'm ok with that.

Thanks for your honesty, how long does it take for you to change pads?
I'm under the assumption it takes a few hours each time based on what the dealership and my mechanic said. Seemed like a lot of work (another 4 hours) on top of the track day.

Thanks for the input, I have no idea if the stock pads will work or not, I had some members says they would not, that's what started me down this path, but it sounds like you think they will be fine, that's good to know, do you have any direct experience with slicks and stock pads?

Yeah I may have to bite the bullet and swap the pads (but I don;t like the idea of spending ours before and after each track event doing this) of just go to SC3R's and spend more money their instead of on pads and oil changes to match the cheaper slicks