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-   -   Mobile 1 esp x3 (https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607122)

haggler 10-27-2022 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon08 (Post 11246216)
Im hard pressed to find any spec where the X3 is at a disadvantage to SC. Perhaps the HTHS spec where the X3 may reduce fuel efficiency. Will the LT1 spin up faster on SC vs X3 due to this.....maybe its possible. IDK What else do you guys see in the comparison?

The main difference is Porshe Approval which likely requires a higher quality base oil for the higher HTHS. They could probably get away with only 1 of these two oils on the market, so they rebranded the cheaper one to make it a clearer dileanation. All marketing and margins.
For 2022 and before, the only requirement was Dexos2 0w-40 anyway (or dexos1 5w30 for street). These oils are so similar there would be no difference on a oil analysis unless you worked for Mobil and could conduct advanced test beyond the scope of a used oil analysis.

wakespeak 10-28-2022 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrptrks (Post 11245476)
Do you know if this information is publicly available for Mobil1 ESP X3 0W-40 and/or Mobil1 Supercar 0W-40 oils? I couldn't find it.

Here: https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...-esp-x3-0w-40/

Hi-Temp Hi-Shear Viscosity @ 150 C 1x10(6) sec(-1), mPa.s, ASTM D4683

3.8

:w00t:

Comfortably above the Euro standard (ACEA A3 as in manual)/Dexos2/DexosR of 3.5.

Keep in mind it only takes 25-30hp to keep most modern cars at 70mph, but its not linear as you go faster. Sustained speeds 100mph or higher create a lot more stress and heat, which is where the ACEA standards come from. Newer oils have less of a tradeoff for high speed cruising protection vs thin for fuel efficiency or start up, so we get Mobil1 ESP or R in -40 grades even for "CAFE". This is more the case for big displacement, low cruise rpm engines where engine torque is not as much affected by parasitic losses from oil viscosity friction.

On the track you run at WOT. In Europe, I used to drive at WOT also, for hours on/off. Yeah, foot to the floor. Nowadays you don't need a 20w-50, 10w-60 (for some BMWs) anymore for this kind of use. 0w-40 is fine but the measure is HTHS at 150C (302f) of ~3.5 - and you get good fuel economy.

Dave88LX 10-31-2022 02:32 PM

So despite all the foot-stomping, tantrums, name-calling, and claims of "DO YOUR RESEARCH", there is nothing out there which proves or states that the ESPx3 is "bad" or "wrong" for these cars it looks like.

Dragon08 10-31-2022 09:06 PM

So collectively, we have done some research here. And we have determined that X3 is in no way inferior to Supercar and meets Dexos2 requirements as outlined in the '22 and before owners manuals.
The only modicum of argument is for '23 models that specifically state Dexos R required in the manual. While X3 does everything that Supercar does, at least, Dexos 2 is no longer specifically called out in the manual for track use. So X3 can be technically disqualified for track use for '23 models. OK.
For your '22 Dave, it sure seems like there is no legit argument against X3. It is the individuals calling foul that have not shown any empirical evidence for their claims.

keep_hope_alive 11-01-2022 09:19 AM

I suspect the concerns with the PCV system putting residue on the intake ports and valves (due to direct injection) is part of the driving force behind the changing oil recommendations and formulations.

I think that running a catch can may help widen the range of oils used by resolving PCV concerns.

If GM made a specific request for the DEXOS-R and 0W-40 Supercar formulation, it was in reaction to data collected over the past few years with the Gen 6 LT1 and/or LT4.

The other question I have is if the change in oil is also a reaction to AFM impacts on lifter reliability.

cdrptrks 11-01-2022 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive (Post 11248363)
The other question I have is if the change in oil is also a reaction to AFM impacts on lifter reliability.

Since the manual transmission V8s do not have AFM active, I would think there would be different oil requirements listed for AFM and non AFM cars in the manual if it was the only reason for the change in recommended oil.

In my case, my car did have a bad (non AFM) lifter on the misfiring cylinder and all lifters were replaced under warranty as part of the repair.

haggler 11-01-2022 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive (Post 11248363)

If GM made a specific request for the DEXOS-R and 0W-40 Supercar formulation, it was in reaction to data collected over the past few years with the Gen 6 LT1 and/or LT4.

On the PDS for ESP formula and Supercar, there is no difference. The data was copy and pasted on Mobil's website. We can only ascertain that the product was rebranded.

https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenge...-formula-0w-40
https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenge...supercar-0w-40

ESP x3 is a new oil with Porsche approvals and dexos2. <=2022 MY required only dexos2 oil. With no changes to the 2023 LT1 engine, one can safely ascertain this oil will work fine with 2023's, if not better.

2SS Capt 11-02-2022 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrptrks (Post 11248380)
Since the manual transmission V8s do not have AFM active, I would think there would be different oil requirements listed for AFM and non AFM cars in the manual if it was the only reason for the change in recommended oil.

In my case, my car did have a bad (non AFM) lifter on the misfiring cylinder and all lifters were replaced under warranty as part of the repair.

From what I understand, ALL cars have AFM hardware, it is just a matter of software of whether it is activated or not, so regardless of A10 or M6, the same oil should apply because they have the same components...

keep_hope_alive 11-02-2022 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggler (Post 11248441)
On the PDS for ESP formula and Supercar, there is no difference. The data was copy and pasted on Mobil's website. We can only ascertain that the product was rebranded.

https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenge...-formula-0w-40
https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenge...supercar-0w-40

ESP x3 is a new oil with Porsche approvals and dexos2. <=2022 MY required only dexos2 oil. With no changes to the 2023 LT1 engine, one can safely ascertain this oil will work fine with 2023's, if not better.


You're just looking at a webpage with simplified data (annoyingly in a different format). The MSDS for Supercar, ESP, and ESPx3 list different hazardous ingredients. For example, ESPx3 has eight hazardous ingredients listed and Supercar has five and ESP has three.

For Section 8 which is exposure limits, Supercar has one, ESP has two, and ESPx3 has five ingredients listed.

Other differences listed include pour point (temp), relative density, and viscosity. Granted, the differences are small. Interestingly, ESP and Supercar are much closer and ESPx3 is the most different.

I don't put much stock into what a product webpage says, especially when the data is formatted differently. I'll always jump to the MSDS when I want real data.

TLDR: They are not the same.
https://sds.exxonmobil.com/
Just search for 0W-40 and the MSDS for each pops up.

keep_hope_alive 11-02-2022 10:36 AM

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...omparision.jpg

I made a graphic showing the MSDS information that differs for each of the three. I'm not claiming that one is better than another, just noting the differences.

haggler 11-02-2022 05:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive (Post 11248760)
I made a graphic showing the MSDS information that differs for each of the three. I'm not claiming that one is better than another, just noting the differences.

That's the old version of the ESP oil. Look at the date.

M1 ESP Formula is the latest formulation.

Coincidentally, they are the same for Supercar. ESP Formula = Supercar.

keep_hope_alive 11-02-2022 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggler (Post 11248919)
That's the old version of the ESP oil. Look at the date.

M1 ESP Formula is the latest formulation.

Coincidentally, they are the same for Supercar. ESP Formula = Supercar.

Nice catch, i'll update the graphic. ESP and Supercar were super close before anyway. Thanks!

EXPx3 still seems to be the most different of the three. But does Mo' Hazardous = Mo' Betta?

Lucky1 11-03-2022 01:02 PM

2016 SS oil
 
I'm sure this has been addressed, but should I be running a different viscosity oil in my 2016 SS? Since new, I've been running 5w- 30w. I only have 10k on my SS, and I'm worried about the build up on my valves.

2SS Capt 11-03-2022 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky1 (Post 11249133)
I'm sure this has been addressed, but should I be running a different viscosity oil in my 2016 SS? Since new, I've been running 5w- 30w. I only have 10k on my SS, and I'm worried about the build up on my valves.

You can run the latest Mobil 1 0W-40 ESP Formula (or SuperCar Formula) if you'd like...


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