There is a 3rd alpha wheelbase...China has available an ats long wheelbase sedan. Here's a write up from autoblog. http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/29/c...hina-official/

According to the article, the ats-l has a wheelbase of 112.5 inches. That splits the difference between the regular ats and cts. Although it's China only as ats, could work for gen 6.

The thing that worries me as Number3 alluded to is size. Everytime I have sat in an ATS I have felt cramped. I don't know if its the lay out, but it feels tiny on the inside to me.

Oh yeah...I think I remember reading about that. Interesting...although I think the 109 would work just fine too.

Its not my daily driver, but sometimes I do pick up my little one in the Camaro and put her car seat in the back behind the passenger seat (with it moved all the way forward). Hopefully I can still do that in the new one.

this is very very interesting because if we assume the latest pictures of the alleged Turbo 4, have 20 inch rims, my calculations, based on two scales, both have wheelbase at 112.56 inches. The thing is my radius measurements are from the edge of the rim, not sure if that is how they are sized.

I have another model that attempts a wheel measurement from inside to inside of the outer lip of the rim, along with assumed 18 inch wheels that gives a 109.75inch wheelbase.

so...who knows? Do we know what size wheels this one has: I'm guessing 18, which puts it on ATS wheelbase.

It's all rudimentary anyway, all BS, just fun trying to figure it out - but 109.3 is probably it.

I would bet money that bolt pattern is 5 x 120mm just like the 5th gen if you wanted to try and guess wheel sizes that way! That picture is pretty straight on but there might be a little perspective distortion.

Those look like 18s to me... Maybe even 17s!!

If the Gen6 is bare bones for creature comforts, it will be the biggest failure of 2016. The crappiest Kia now sets the bar for what you can expect in a car. Bare bones doesn't cut it anymore.

Also keep in mind for allll these creature comforts, the weight difference between a 1SS and 2SS is only about 40 pounds. Leather and a bunch of wires and controllers don't weigh that much.

You are right on the basics, the more you can produce the lower the piece price. But GM's model is farrrr more complex than that. If your model held true you could just price the Corvette at $25,000 and you would sell a crap load of them and make even MORE money. It doesn't quite work out like that. There is a lot more too it than that.

Yes, by selecting Alpha and likely putting the 2.0T as the base engine now, they will likely hold the base price. But don't confuse that with now adding additional premium materials and still holding price simply because the low volume Camaro also has some of those parts. Just because the ATS and CTS aren't selling, don't lose sight of the fact they were supposed to sell much better. I would expect GM at one point hoped the ATS would far outsell the Camaro.

As a brand Cadillac is lost. The reason why the Camaro and Vette sell is because of the styling and performance. People that buy German and Japanese luxury sedans don't even consider Cadillac. It's ironic because the new Cadillac sedans are lighter and handle better than their counterparts. The Escalade sells well because of the image it projects. Cadillac's sedans styling just isn't doing it, not saying the 3 Series of the worlds light up design department either. From all the accounts I've read the F30 BMW 3 series is a German Camry with rwd. It's nothing special, but I guess now that the young guys are getting older, they need easier car to drive with less "weightness" of steering and more Buick like ride. I always thought BMW stood for the ultimate driving machine. Seems hardly like that right now with how numb their steering is in their cars.

I had to have the leather and the RS package on mine.

As far as the F30 goes, you are pretty much on target. The car still be optioned to give the driver something to enjoy (namely DHP or Sport line), but it has gradually changed to match its biggest buyer, older American drivers. The same ones that drove Cadillacs before. Now Cadillac has made good driving/handling cars but there's no market for them in the segment anymore, especially with a lot of BMW owners not considering any domestic as competition regardless of the facts. BMW still can build amazing cars, but the current 3 series is not the ultimate driving machine anymore.

That's just it, yes these are 'premuim materials, but not so much the 'exotic' materials they were even a decade ago. They're everywhere now, almost to the point of being industry standard.

If they could build a Corvette for $20K, they would happily sell a crap load of them for $25K each. But as it is, they will be able to build a Camaro for around that, and they will sell a crap load of them. Thus they can price them out closer to the margin and still make a tidy profit. Of course, the more options, the greater the margin.

I don't know if they'll sell the base model for $22 in '16. Probably more like $24. But they will be able to keep the prospective models within the market range and demographic the car currently resides. Even with all of the upgrades to the Corvette in '14, it still listed within a couple of grand of the outgoing generation, the Camaro will be no different.

FR-S is tiny. The back seats are in there for insurance reasons, not really for actual use.

We will most likely see a wheelbase around the size of the ATS-L but it won't be derived from the ATS-L since the extra length for that was added behind the driver to give the back seat more leg room. There looks to be more distance from the A pillar to the front wheels giving the Camaro the longer front hood look.

http://i42.tinypic.com/j11vtu.jpg
http://images.thecarconnection.com/l...00482681_l.jpg

Based off of xgnxs's idea about assuming a 5x120 bolt pattern to size wheels yesterday. I tried this in CAD.

ok...now finish? What is distance center wheel to center wheel in mm on the same scale? Actually, you can't take the bolt patter measurement that way, you have to go directly across to the center line, ummm...so, if you drew a perfect circle thru the exact center of each bolt hole, then you go exactly in half of circle to get the diameter.

make the scale as large as possible to get the best accuracy. Using the same scale you measured the diameter (I assume you used MM's), then measure the distance front to rear, center of wheel.

We are talking only 2 or 3 inches on a full scale, so I've found that it really is too rudimentary to attempt this - but i'm guessing 109.3 when they reveal.

Something like this, only use the same scale.

I'm working on it now. I have seen both. The way i have done it and your way to measure bolt pattern. I wasn't sure which is correct. Thanks for the help.

Anyone else notice the similarity in the lower body sculpting?

I did. But I think it more closely resembles the 5th gen's character lines. :noidea:

I'm no expert, but if it were a six bolt pattern, then you could go bolt to bolt, but since there are only five...

Does it look like it may be more pronounced on the Camaro - looks more drastic on Camaro?

The 5th gen is narrow at the front getting wider towards the back before tapering quickly back at the quarter panel.
These both are wider at the front and gently taper back to the quarter panel, opposite from the 5th gen.

Yes more pronounced but a similar shape.

I wouldn't swear by this, but I believe it is pretty close.

You're right. Here's a few more shots supporting your eye. :D

But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's like the ATS...I think the ATS's character line is far more civil and mellow. I agree with DenverTaco that's very drastic and "in your face" on the Camaro. The camouflage is hiding some of the attitude.

Attachment 711045

Attachment 711046

Attachment 711047

I believe that the wheelbase will be similar if not identical from spying the seating position of each driver in the pics shown above. I also see similarities in both cars wheelwell to front edge of door opening length and also rear edge of door opening to the leading edge of the rear wheelwell opening.

:threadjacked: :biggrin: He wasn't thinking it through.

That could be...

I wouldn't go that far. GT500. Brash, hard to drive, whatever... it was what we all wish we could have in terms of factory equipped straight line performance.

I don't recall Ford coming out publicly w/ anything until we saw the car and even then, not a word on weight, but they did say it would handle better and it does.

Where/when did Ford mention anything losing weight, or gaining weight. I only recall magazines and "tuners" saying.

Nahh... you can rest assured, the 6th gen SS will be 200ish lb lighter than the 5th SS, base vs base.

The only test I'd consider really truly done was when Randy Pobst drove them each around the same track, but even then, he did it on different days. However, the new just smashed the old.

I nearly agree, but I expect the heaviest SS(excluding high performance packages) coupe to weigh in around 3800.