CarandDriver 2024 Dark Horse Review vs 2019 Camaro SS 1LE
 

Caranddriver test is out for the manual 2024 Dark Horse. Even with more rubber and power the results are still little shy of the 2019 Camaro SS 1LE manual they tested back in the day. The car also costs $73K :eyebulge:

While the quarter mile specs are very similar, I have no doubt in my mind the dark horse will be faster around a track and from a roll. It has a decent amount of extra power, like you said extra rubber (front tire size starts with a 3!) and it costs more. Not to mention the Mach 1 was slightly quicker than the 1le.

An area where Ford has always excelled but Chevy has been behind in is giving their handling specialty pony/sports cars a little extra power. Ford gave the boss 302, gt350 and Mach 1 15-100 extra hp. Chevy only gave the z28 extra power while the 1le and grand sport never got any extra power.

A 6th gen ss 1le with an ls7 would have been the best drivers car ever made.

Keep in mind that the Dark Horse is also 200 lbs heavier, so the added weight offsets the power increase. It also has 100 lbs over the Mach 1. It would be interesting to see a 1le vs Dark Horse comparison on a shorter and longer track with straights, manual vs manual or auto vs auto.

better mileage from the camaro too, on top of the better performance

Honestly, with this being the last time that the two will share a production year (while both being ICE anyway) I'm surprised that we aren't seeing more same day testing between the two. Historical data is great and is still viable, but seeing them both tear up a strip and track against one another is something, at least, I'd like to see before Camaro goes (on hiatus?).

I'm sure Throttle House will do it. They're big fans of the Camaro platform and in their Dark Horse review even wished it was more like the Camaro. They actually wanted a "Camstang" :smiling1:

For some reason we never had a same day GT350 or Mach 1 against the SS 1LE comparison. Randy Pobst tried one with the Mach 1 but he had a pre refresh SS1LE with some miles an issues on the brakes. It was also an Auto Mach 1 vs Manual 1LE comparison with Mach 1 edging the 1LE 0.4 seconds( i am not sure on the total time). Throttle House did a track review on the GT350 vs M2 and M2 put down better times. Camaro ss 1le put down faster times than that M2 on a different day.

Now the most interesting thing is CarandDriver put down a faster lap time with a Mach 1 ( i am not sure if it was an auto) than a GT350R, again on a different day. Considering that GT350R has beaten Mach 1 in every performance metric, including being 200+ lbs lighter is very interesting. So then what is really going on? Different day lap times, can they really make that much of a difference? I am hoping that Throttle House can do a same day comparison. Even add the same tires on the cars, auto vs auto or manual vs manual. I am guessing longer the straights and with auto, Dark Horse should pull away from the 1LE. But when it comes to cornering, in and out acceleration, braking, SS 1LE has the advantage.

I think part of the reason why the Mach 1 beat the gt350 R was because VIR got repaved after the gt350’s time. That I believe will make a difference.

Look up pro racers take on YouTube. Andy pilgrim would host it and set lap times in cars around NCM. If you look up the leaderboard you’ll see the SS 1le is VERY close to the gt350’s time and about 2 second if I am remembering correctly slower than the R. There is a caveat to this however as both the gt350 and R he tested were 2019’s. Ford made some big improvements to the 19 and 20 models. I also believe the VIR time that people are referring to for the gt350 R was for pre 2019 model.

Even though we never got same day testing I have a hunch for the 6th gen cars it goes gt350R>Mach 1>SS 1LE>gt350>PP2>SS>PP1/bullet>LT1>GT

Naah, i think on the same tire auto vs auto or manual vs manual gt350r > ss 1le > mach 1, unless the road coarse has a very long straight that mach 1 is taking advantage on that. If you look at Throttle House Lap Times, ss 1le has even faster time than a GT500 without the CFTP. Now Dark Horse, same day comparison would be amazing. I am hoping for Throttle House to do that comparison. They can even add a Nissan Z Nismo into the mix as well.

for those who aren't able to get a 1LE, but want a new car, the dark horse seems like an okay alternative. I wonder if Ford doesn't allow mags to run the dark horse in a comparison test against the 1LE .

Even IF that were the case, there are multiple reviewer channels/publications out there that don't rely strictly on manufacturer supplied vehicles, using either vehicles they get from local dealers, purchase themselves, or even get from viewers/fans. It just strikes me as odd that these obvious comparisons, of all kinds of makes/models, don't happen.

$73k is more than I paid for my ZL1

This.
Scream it from the rooftops my friend.

I'd rather see a ZL1 with an LT5.

This^^^

Would have given Chevy a perfect weapon to go head to head with the GT500…but that makes too much sense… :bonk:

What GT500?
The '20-'22 or the potential next one? I wouldn't be surprised to see the next one running the GTD's alleged 800hp/730lbft Gen.2 Predator.

Ford will always out sell Chevy for this very reason :smiling1:

Honestly, Chevy could have put the lt2 engine in a camaro ss 1le, unique cold air intake kit, rear seat delete, zl1 1le solid rear cradle bushings and call it a z28! 500 hp na light weight camaro!

When I was doing powertrain forecasts I actually had a 485hp LT2 for Camaro in the forecast. Then someone at GM who definitely knows explained to me that the biggest differences between LT1 and LT2 are

1. the intake (which people have been putting on LT1)
2. the sump system
3. packaging details to facilitate mid-engine installation

At that point I immediately took it out of the forecast.

We already know the intake fits with just a little massaging. I just don’t understand (I do actually as it’s $$$ but just wish Chevy gave a crap about the Camaro) why you can’t slap the Camaro exhaust manifolds and LT1 wet sump oil pan and pump onto the lt2 and put it in a Camaro. The LT2 at the end of the day is still a 6.2 liter gen V small block Chevy. I’m almost positive if you put it next to an lt1 without the exhaust manifolds and intake the dimensions would be exactly the same.

Back in the day, GM started putting the ls6 intake on ls1’s after the ls6 came out. They could have at least given the LT2 intake to 2020 or 2021+ cars. It pulls better up top. But if they just put the slightly modified version of the LT2 I just made up I’m confident the SS could still compete with the 7th gen mustang up until the end of the 7th gen mustang.

For me always was strange to See that FOMOCO never allowed a comparison of their Shelby GT350 nor Mach l VS the 6th gen Camaro SS1LE, I would expect that they would also be afraid of comparing their Dark Horse VS the amazing performing SS1LE :yikes:

Ford has always been afraid. They did the same thing back when the 5th gen 1le came out. They wouldn’t let motor trend test it against a boss. I’m confident the 6th gen SS 1le would beat a 16-18 gt350 (not the R) but not sure about the 19+ gt350 or the Mach 1. The Mach 1 I think has too much of a tire advantage for the 1le to overcome. The tires are stickier and the front tire size starts with a 3.

A flurry of outlets have recently posted dyno #s of the new mustang 5.0, and it's pretty much the same output as the prior gen Mach 1s which were rated at 480hp crank.



Would love to see someone like Randy Pobst (what ever happened to him?) do a track comparison between the 1LE and DH. I think we all know what car would be quicker, but it would be interesting / fun to see.

All the bench racing aside, I've always come back to this when it comes to "which would beat what" convo's...

1st - Hardly Any owners / drivers that buy any of these cars have the skill set and / or "Ballz" to drive it to it's full potential.

2nd - How Fast / Quick someone is willing to go in Any given car is directly related to the size of their wallet and how much they can afford to "lose" if they wad it up at the track or even in the mountains / canyons.

I've always said, Give me a car I don't have to pay for if I wad it up and the others the same car with the same tires on the same day, and THEN we'll see which car & driver are the best... (or same driver multiple cars with same tires).

I love having the best as much as anyone, but the older I get the more I realize I need to buy what makes me "happy" and who cares about the rest. Rarely can anyone I'm driving with get away from me in almost any different cars I've follow (when they're clearly better cars) and I've followed cars that I knew to be WAY less superior to what I was driving and they were hard to keep up with.

My point?? I bought the SS 1LE in 6MT, not because it would be the quickest around a track, but because it's the car I liked the look of and driving experience the most. I could have bought the ZL1 but went with the less powerful car on purpose for the "fun" of it. I have another very fast car so the ZL1 would have been redundant.

All the BS aside, the DH costs as much as a ZL1 and yet they will compare it to the SS, which will still own it.

This forum needs a “like” button. The two posts immediately above mine both get :thumbup:

The DH is way to expensive for what it is. As you said it costs as much as a ZL1. I'd take the ZL1 all day over the DH for the money.

Yep, and I literally did.

Dw, while the Camaro rests the Mustang continues even in its newest iteration

https://youtube.com/shorts/hAwmu9TFn...N67ii98D4mdUBo

I know you did.

Surprised the DH weighs so much. The specs are kind of underwhelming especially for the cost. I will say I love the tire combo. Always been a fan of wide tires. One of the reasons I bought the SS 1LE TBH plus I really want a C7 Z06 still to this day. That car just looks so damn good. Maybe in 2 years when this shitty economy starts to swing the other way.

Hahaha, it's so heavy it displaced the ramps on the dealer's trailer :sm0: :sm0: :sm0:

I’m not at all surprised. Even though Ford touts it as being “all new”, it is the same platform as the S197 and S550 with modifications. The modifications add mass.

It was originally supposed to have an all new platform, but…money. Reducing weight is near impossible without significantly changing the platform like GM did going from Zeta (5th Gen) to Alpha (6th Gen), dropping hundreds of pounds in the process. Instead, Ford had to address some of the handling issues of S550 without the benefit of a new platform. That means adding content and that means adding weight. Haven’t driven a DarkHorse yet, but from reports I’ve read and viewed, it sounds like performance has improved, so the added weight is at least with purpose.

Agreed. A lot of S550 owners were adding aftermarket bracing so sounds like the DH just added those braces right from Ford. We were lucky to get the Alpha platform… big improvement over Zeta!

Yeah, thanks BMW! :smiling1:

:laughabove:Somebody gets it! :thumbup:

unoptioned DH vs unoptioned ZL1
$61,510 = $75,395

$65,505 = $75,395

Or even

Handling pack+Recaro DH vs unoptioned ZL1
$68,155 = $75,395

$72,150 = $75,395

And I do agree, DH is insanely overpriced, especially that HP+Recaro DH premium. But to say they are the same is a bit much in the hyperbole department.

It's like Ford is not even concerned about the price of a ss 1le or zl1. They know it's their market, given to them.

ZL1 has no options like an ss. It comes standard with all the goodies in a loaded camaro with handling package. 1Le version is an extreme track option to add on. So the ZL1 equivalent of the Dark Horse is pretty much close to a loaded version. Even the price is not exactly the same, if it is within that region, to me i can consider them similarly priced. Also if a car is being sold as a track version, it should come standard with the handling package, recaro seats and such. These shouldn’t be an add on. Maybe add a tech package as an option.

And while there will be some Dark Horses available at MSRP most will have significant markups. Especially if this strike goes through