18 ZL1 A10 track upgrades
 

My car so far...

- 1LE aero = done
- Aggresive Street / Track alignment = pending
- 19" 1LE reps & SuperCar-R tires

I'm still LEARNING how to drive, with only about 20 hours of seat time total between my S2000 & ZL1 but I'm still a CAR guy and I like to mod and make changes. I'm also, a bit of a Waxer guy..

What could be done next to improve handling but not compromise drivability?

- Adjustable rear sway bar (1LE)
// Not sure if I need this, most people are leaving the bar in the neutral setting on the track, which is where I'd want it with my skill set. What are the options out there?

- Lowering Springs
// What are the market options? I see BMR, Eibach and AFE (formally pfat)

Which Spring is recommended for MY use case? I'm thinking AFE
Is there any type of real track advantage or is it purely looks? (thinking the former)


Open to constructive input and before anyone says #DriverMod, I have acquired a driving Coach as my Laptimes have plateaued on Circuit of the Americas and it's time to dive deeper into the fundamentals this year.

As most of HPDE day instructors would tell you, the best upgrade you can do to your car is 'nut behind the wheel'.
I understand you want to make your car faster, handle better, etc... but since you said you only have 20 hours of seat time, and have wheels/tires/brakes all ready for track (you will have brake fluid flushed, right?), I would suggest that you do at least a few track days with your car with current setup, and "feel" where you want to upgrade.

ZL1s are amazing track car as it is. Instead of spending tons of money on upgrades on it now, I would say learn your car and track first, and when you start noticing things that need to be corrected, that's the time to ask 'how to improve/correct the situation' instead of asking 'what to upgrade' to make your already fast car faster. (e.g. you have mid-corner understeer that you want to dial out, or back end feels too loose, etc....)

I don't mean to be a disrespectful a$$ here at all. My intention is far from it. I give this same advice to my close friends too.
And for the record, I'm not trying to act like 'I know it all' either. After 12 years of having fun on track, I know there is ALWAYS someone faster than I am and someone who know whole lot more than I do.

Go out, have fun, and BE SAFE!! :thumb:

I assume if you are running 1LE 19" replicas you are running the 1LE tire sizes. Any rubbing/fitment issues with the MRC suspension?

I was planning on switching the suspension to the 1LE DSSV components until I saw the threads on the DSC MRC suspension control unit. It is plug n' play easy swap. I now plan on that route.

You will need some sort of telemetry/data recording once you reach a certain skill level to truly improve laptime. 20hrs isn’t much I’m sure you have a lot of skill to work up to (we all do!).

In the mean time, even Harry’s lap timer app for your phone (buy the “expensive” version that’s like $40-50). It’s accurate w/in 0.010 second per lap.....but it will monitor your braking points, min and maximum speeds through each corner/straight etc. it can also sync with an OBD2 scanner to overlap throttle/brake/rpm inputs, and also overlays to go pro.

Once you are ready to spend more there are better units like AIM Solo, and others out there.

While I appreciate the guidance, I guess you didn't fully read my post and went straight to advise mode.

"Open to constructive input and before anyone says #DriverMod, I have acquired a driving Coach as my Laptimes have plateaued on Circuit of the Americas and it's time to dive deeper into the fundamentals this year."

I'm just looking for a bit of input on what springs / sways people go with if they modify. Maybe it's camber plates? However, the fact that I took the time to cover that I have a driving coach and I'm working on my driving...there was no need to point this out again. I agree with you, seat time and coaching is key but then again...why didn't I stay in my S2000 or for that matter sell my S2000 and get a Miata and pour hours and hours and hours into Track time and become a pro? Well I guess I'm just enjoying my life and having fun, getting into this hobby at a sustainable pace so I can enjoy it for Life. However, I'm not willing to compromise myself and stop driving powerful / awesome cars I love in the process...the one thing I don't have is unlimited time to spend on track, in fact..probably like you, I have a lot more MONEY than I do time...so sometimes that manifests itself in upgrades or car upgrades...like going from an S2000 after 6 months to a ZL1.

Right, I am purchasing an AIM Solo from a friend who is upgrading to the latest. Agree, getting clean data is a very important element for my Coach and me to improve my skill set. I have HLT/10hz GPS unit from my S2000 but was going to just move up to AIM now that I'm a bit more serious.

Skim around this guys channel. He has some great videos for utilizing data to reduce lap time:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=BGvw2II80VI

I'd wait for the DSC MRC controller to get the bugs all worked out before purchasing. A friend of mine runs it on his GS and has had nothing but challenges with their software and constant software upgrades.

I'll let you know if I have a fitment issue with an aggressive laser/street alignment and the replica rims. They are .5" thinner and have 5mm of additional positive offset for the very purpose of fitting on the mag ride car...should be fine.

Fastest guys currently in SCCA in 6th Gen are these guys. You want your car setup? Call them. Yes they too will tell you seat time NOT HP!

http://www.phoenixperformance.net/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPg4bJwi9Oc&t=479s

My god...these guys are fast.

My god...I didn't ask for advice on more seat time as I already know that is step one and acknowledge that in my post.

My god...I wasn't looking for added HP guidance and didn't ask for guidance on power mods.

My god...YES, I DID MY TPS reports LUMBERG!

My god...Road Racing people are arrogant AF, a well-known problem, and a huge turn off as you get into the sport.

I did read your post, and what I suggested was not just go get some more seat time. What I suggested was you get to know your car better before changing anything, then find out which area (of the car) YOU want to improve. I know you said you have a driving coach, but he is not going to drive the car for you. You would want to find out the set up that would work best for your driving skill and style.

I guess you didn't like what I told you and felt it was arrogant. Well,, like I said that wasn't my intention at all, but I can't tell you how to feel about it.

Good luck with your mod, and track days.

She (my driving coach) will be helping me learn to drive the car, yes and I am aware she won't be driving for me. Appreciate your attempt to help, I don't think you're wrong on any of it....you don't want to change the equation over and over as you learn the car. The thing is, I'm trying to get the car fully setup the way I think I want it to start there... I've driven the car on COTA with a street tire. I'm going back with more down force, a more aggressive alignment, a colbalt brake pad and a different tire configuration so those two changes alone will change a LOT of the dynamic of the car. So let's make the rest of the changes that most people do NOW vs halfway through 2018.

I'd leave it static after that, well that was my thought.

Probably the main thing I would change is a spring and I'd say 90% of that at my skill level is for looks, but hey I am a nerd I guess.

What wheels did you acquire? Where from?

How do you think you want it? Serious question.

I'll save some time and give you my next reply. What does the car do that you wish it didn't? What does the car not do that you wish it did?

Did someone Call??

LMAO!!!

Love me some PinHead!

My first mod was camber plates as I needed to improve turn in response. -3.0 camber was my target and it is night and day difference from oem max of -2.5

:thumbup: Beat me to it. Word for word.


Saku - you need to drive the car as close to the way you know it - especially for when your coach first gets in to observe and critique. You want her to see what you've been doing, not what you're in the process of changing to suit a car that's now behaving differently. There will be time for that later.

Keep in mind that you don't know why you've hit a 'plateau', and that's to be expected with only 20 hours seat time. You want the best possible answer, don't you?

The comments you've been getting are experience-based. And they're coming from folks that you could soon be running right next to at speeds well over 100 mph, people who just might have a vested interest in the direction this discussion takes just to get a feel for who they might find themselves next to on the track. Resistance to taking suggestion here isn't helping . . . nor will it if it carries over to how receptive you end up being to your coach's suggestions. Think about it.

Bluntly but not arrogantly intended.


Norm

None. Those springs are for looks. The modest rate increase doesn't even compensate for the increased roll gradient that comes from the change in roll center.

I didn't see alignment specs listed, but I'd advise camber plates. More camber will save your tires.

Wow a warranted response and very much appreciated! Something to look into for sure, thank you.

Regarding data...

AIM's Roger Caddell runs a Practical Data Analysis workshop. I haven't attended, but drivers I respect have told me that it's well worth the trouble if there's an event in your area. IIRC, it's not at all expensive. Caddell has also posted a number of webinars. More here: http://www.aim-sportline.com/eng/rog...ents/index.htm

I used a pro for coaching (one who was leading very late in the four-hour BMW Endurance race at Daytona this past Friday - read: the kid knows his stuff), and data was a huge help to me when we were working together. He directed me to a book that I found quite useful: http://www.cb-racing.com/book_Making...gly-Lines.html. Brown uses a MoTeC system for his examples, but the principles are universal.

I've attended Peter Krause's seminars, and he's excellent at communicating how to get the most from whatever data system you might be using. He's based out of VIR, but travels wherever he's needed. More here: http://www.peterkrause.net/Krause_%2...Resources.html

Data can really speed your progress if you know how to use it. I found that having a baseline hot-lap in hand from my coach was a terrific resource for both current and future reference, especially once the car was finally set up for my needs.

No affiliation with any of the above.

Good luck as you progress in this hobby.

Any updates on wheel/tire fitment?

I have driven my car on track with lowering springs and with stock springs. The car leans less with the lowering springs but the performance difference is not huge. I have Eibach Pro springs and the mod is cheap so I went for it possibly expecting more. The car is great stock and I suggest more seat time as that will benefit most (yeah, you know this). An appropriate R comp tire will give a modest increase in grip and a racing brake pad will give a bit less fade with increased brake torque. Get the car on track and I’m going to do the same. Of course, make sure your alignment specs are within the performance range for track use.

Update, I installed the Eibachs and had the car track aligned. I installed Borla catback + Borla off road to get some heat out of the platform and help the transmission cool. Which it did very well, I've never seen it go over 215 in all of my track sessions.

I've received some great coaching from Jade Buford and a few other awesome instructors on COTA and HR2. The car is for lack of a better term, perfect for me in every way, it is very balanced with the base ZL1 sways, it has great midcorner behaviours but still great turn in with the track alignment and the eLSD is amazing at helping the car rotate.

I spent any remaining MOD money on a HANS Hybrid-S and some nice SPARCO Tide gloves to go with my nice Simpson SA2010 Bandit helmet.

Recently I set a personal best of 2:27.4 on COTA, but more importantly learned a ton. The only thing this car will need now is tires, pads, rotors, fluids and me.

There is a lot of truth in this thread, but I'm not here to tell you all of you are right, your attitudes are arrogant and real off putting and this is why a lot of people never make it past their 1st or 2nd HPDEs.

Good luck, see you if you come to my hometown and visit COTA! :)

You keep mentioning this, and it's getting a bit tiresome. I think you're reading way more emotion into the words people are responding with than was ever intended when they typed them. It's a commonly encountered problem that's almost entirely because this is the internet and not face to face.

FWIW, I looked around on several other message boards and didn't find any faster laps at COTA. Not even that many under 2:30 by any amount.


Norm

Norm,

Thank you for the positive words on the PR, the ZL1 A10 is the perfect car to extract minimal skill and present maximum performance, I'm glad I own it.

On the other stuff... ehh, everyone's nicer in person. I'll just say, that everything that was being said was correct, the delivery is what bothered me. In the end though, it doesn't matter because the way the car is setup now is literally as good as it gets and adjusting ANYTHING else will just open up another thing to change/adjust or fix. No need for that.

Great lap time at COTA! I will be there on May 5-6 in my SS 1LE for NASA HPDE with garage space! Only other time I drove COTA was in a Porka GT3

So how did you like the Cobalt pads? Which ones did you use? Are you swapping back to stock pads on the street? By the way, that's a very good time!

Mark Martin here on Camaro 6 has run a 2:23.4 in his ZL1 1LE. Your time is blistering fast as well!

NOT STOCK

His time is on Slicks, not SuperCar-Rs, his car had power modifications like long tube headers, off-road exhaust (+100 rwhp), he has a harness bar/cage and racing seats and the interior has been stripped out. Not sure how long he will be an AM anyway, he's too good to be messing with HPDE fools like me. :)

Mark is my friend and he is very fast, but in terms of a STOCK 1LE, with no tune, no major power upgrades, on stock 1LE rubber, driven by an amateur, none have gone as fast my ZL1 A10.

I haven't seen an ALL STOCK ZL1 1LE driven by an AM go faster than 2:27 yet, I'm sure it could have happened or will happen eventually but most can't get below a 2:29 so far.

Larger to the point, I've really improved this year and most importantly really enjoy this platform and I can't see me in another one anytime soon.

:)

headers, tune, and off road exhaust might be 40rwhp. The A10 kills the ZL1 1LE on the straights, and I bet your car is nearly equal if not faster on COTA's long straightaways. If you keep improving and go with slicks, your lap times may end up faster than Mark's.

IF people are only getting 40 rwhp from headers/tune/meth nobody would be voiding warranties for that...most tune only cars pick up 60 rwhp. Anyways, my goal was to prove the A10 ZL1 with 1LE aero, same tire, would be as fast or faster on most tracks. Not sure if I really did that because the sample size is too small, but I think they are close enough to say it's a draw.

Thanks for the kind words, possibly running Hoosiers next year.

They WOULD void the warranty, because without a proper tune, you could do some damage.
I would also agree that its only worth about 40hp, not 100 for sure.

Now a question to everybody who has experience on the track with the A10: Does the transmission hold up, or does it overheat?
Is it potentially faster than the M6?

David