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-   -   What's happening GM (https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386571)

Iroc_Z28 12-03-2014 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ91 (Post 8094293)
haha comes with being a Car nut!!

Well look at the refresh, we found out about it days before I believe.
With the rash of pics we had on the prototypes, I'm sure we will be seeing some more in a few weeks.

Cold weather testing anyone? :D
Where are they building these? I know that production is moving, so does that mean these Prototypes are being built there or in Oshawa? Because i live an hour away from Oshawa....

This brings back memories of the 5th gen development
Cant wait til the CTF cars are rolling around but thats obviously after the reveal.

I think this Camaro is going to be a real head turner

Production is moving to Lansing Michigan, so i'm assuming that they are building the test mules in or around the Lansing Grand River plant. In terms of cold weather testing, Michigan, Utah and Colorado are popular locations this time of year... hopefully we get some more pics soon:)

LesserO2Evils 12-03-2014 03:02 PM

I have been scouring the internet nearly every day looking for info. Finally signed up here. So now I can consolidate my searches!lol

TJ91 12-03-2014 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iroc_Z28 (Post 8094325)
Production is moving to Lansing Michigan, so i'm assuming that they are building the test mules in or around the Lansing Grand River plant. In terms of cold weather testing, Michigan, Utah and Colorado are popular locations this time of year... hopefully we get some more pics soon:)

Damn, if they were building them up here I could've done some snooping for you guys. With the 5th gen we got some pretty cool advantages up here lol.

Yeah hopefully some details or a slip of the interior would be sweet haha

LesserO2Evils 12-04-2014 10:10 AM

Interior is def my biggest concern, at this point. Aside from WEIGHT, but it will be a lot longer before we get the specifics on that

Capricio 12-04-2014 10:47 AM

I've been tracking progress on the 2016 as best I can through the internet. gmauthority an torquenews always seem to have the most info. Issues still vexing me are:

1) Transmissions: With all the talk of a new 7 speed manual, why does the new ATS-V have a "new" 6-speed in that LA Autoshow video? Will the alleged new 8-speed auto be offered in Corvettes in some mid-production model year? Will the new alleged 8-speed auto be the same one used in the 3/4 ton trucks? Or some less robust fragile 4L60 equivalent? I read an article once speculating the General was crappifying/cheapening the "8L90" into an "8L60" versions for cars. :(

2) Suspension: How long before a 1LE "track pack" option comes out? I'm not buying early and kicking myself a year later for missing it. There's a decent discussion about this on the camaro5 forum. Some believe it will be offered at release, but I'm skeptical. I'm not buying a first model year of a major revision, in any case.

3) Engine: with the new rev-matching tech on manuals, will there be a need for two different versions of the engines, with and without DoD/AFM?

4) Mods: Its still early, but direct injection sounds very finicky with regards to porting/heads changes. Early cams on ls1tech don't appear to really offer much. Force induction added to a DI NA engine seems very... precarious. Obviously it's still very early, but at this point its looking to me like DI NA engines will best be left alone, even after your warranty runs out. To this day, it still seems most tuners and cam designers have real idea how to optimize VVT.

The lack of information is a bit frustrating, but we should know more soon. The new GT TP Mustang is pretty much compared as being on-par with the current 1LE, so things should only get better. ...try finding info on the alleged new SRT Barracuda (Challenger successor) if you want some real internet frustration. I'm not sure there really even is such a thing in the works.

KMPrenger 12-05-2014 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capricio (Post 8095629)
...

4) Mods: Its still early, but direct injection sounds very finicky with regards to porting/heads changes. Early cams on ls1tech don't appear to really offer much. Force induction added to a DI NA engine seems very... precarious. Obviously it's still very early, but at this point its looking to me like DI NA engines will best be left alone, even after your warranty runs out. To this day, it still seems most tuners and cam designers have real idea how to optimize VVT.

...

I'll just speak on your 4th point. Just my thoughts.

direct injection is very finicky since it is so precise, but it can work with cams and certainly can work with forced induction...whether its from the factory or not.

The LLT/LFX V6 engines have had all the goodies the new LT1 has for years, and while we haven't had much success with cams (mostly b/c there is only one company making cams, and they've had a hard time getting specs right) we have had seen a couple successful cammed V6 cars produce more power. Of course, its a mild cam (plus the V6 takes four cams...not one), and I don't know how the LT1 would react to a different cam.

The V6 reacts wonderfully with forced induction, making pretty impressive power on not a lot of boost. As long as you have good tuning, and the fuel supply is good to go (via upgraded pumps in take and for injection) she will scream. The LT4, and the LF3/LF4 are factory DI engines with forced induction, and they perform very well, so I wouldn't worry too much about this.

Capricio 12-05-2014 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMPrenger (Post 8097987)
direct injection is very finicky since it is so precise, but it can work with cams and certainly can work with forced induction...whether its from the factory or not.

Agreed. What I am surmising is DI depends a lot in very precise air velocity coming in and a lot of consistent air tumbling/turbulence. If you just start hogging out ports, putting in bigger valves, or forcing air in harder than the NA level expected, the whole thing goes to crap. Unlike port injection where the velocity of the air in the runner has it's own dissipative effect, the finely atomized fuel coming the concentric cones of spray from a DI injector don't suspend and reach every corner of the combustion chamber.

Quote:

I don't know how the LT1 would react to a different cam.
There are a couple of C7 cams dyno'd on ls1tech, I'm not impressed. If what I said earlier holds true, then I don't see how adding duration or height to a profile can really do much besides slow down the air velocity and screw up the fuel dissipation. Now that the injector duty cycle doesn't depend on the intake valve being open, cam designers will have to rethink things.

Quote:

As long as you have good tuning, and the fuel supply is good to go (via upgraded pumps in take and for injection) she will scream.
With 2100 psi of fuel pressure, will a person ever really need a bigger injector? Or will it be more a matter of spray pattern?

Quote:

The LT4, and the LF3/LF4 are factory DI engines with forced induction, and they perform very well, so I wouldn't worry too much about this.
I think you're right but these engines are complete packages, and adding aftermarket FI to DI/NA in the future, I think it may require new piston tops, new injectors, new heads... everything required to maintain a very specific air intake velocity curve. (Which, once could argue, is about what it takes for current FI builds if they they are done "properly".) I think the difference will be with FI on DI maybe you won't be able to crank your boost up or down and tweak your fuel and timing a bit to compensate. Either that, or you just blast the injectors and run pig rich all the time.

KMPrenger 12-05-2014 12:54 PM

Responses in red

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capricio (Post 8098061)
Agreed. What I am surmising is DI depends a lot in very precise air velocity coming in and a lot of consistent air tumbling/turbulence. If you just start hogging out ports, putting in bigger valves, or forcing air in harder than the NA level expected, the whole thing goes to crap. Unlike port injection where the velocity of the air in the runner has it's own dissipative effect, the finely atomized fuel coming the concentric cones of spray from a DI injector don't suspend and reach every corner of the combustion chamber.

You make good points, and I'm not exactly sure how ported heads might affect the engine efficiency, but I will say (again, using the V6 as an example since its what I know, and has DI) we see positive results with a better intake, and a ported/better flowing intake manifold even without a tune. Of course a tune helps, as they can start to go a bit lean without it, but nothing so bad that you still couldn't drive it. So I don't see why the LT1 couldn't benefit from something similar.



There are a couple of C7 cams dyno'd on ls1tech, I'm not impressed. If what I said earlier holds true, then I don't see how adding duration or height to a profile can really do much besides slow down the air velocity and screw up the fuel dissipation. Now that the injector duty cycle doesn't depend on the intake valve being open, cam designers will have to rethink things.



With 2100 psi of fuel pressure, will a person ever really need a bigger injector? Or will it be more a matter of spray pattern?

I think its just a matter of supplying the stock injectors with enough fuel when you start to add serious power, but again I don't know the specifics. I don't think the pattern changes. I'll use "gretchens" V6 as an example. He pushed his LFX V6 to around 700 crank horsepower using a very special twin turbo build. But using stock components, typically once you try to surpass 550 crank HP or so, the AFR would go lean, and require more fuel since the stock components couldn't keep up. He swapped his in-tank pump with a ZL1 pump and the crank pump with one from the LF3.

I'd imagine the stock LT1 pumps would be good to go for regular forced induction applications and likely (just guessing) be good for 600 - 700HP or more, but for those wanting to really push the envelope they might have to find a different solution.


I think you're right but these engines are complete packages, and adding aftermarket FI to DI/NA in the future, I think it may require new piston tops, new injectors, new heads... everything required to maintain a very specific air intake velocity curve. (Which, once could argue, is about what it takes for current FI builds if they they are done "properly".) I think the difference will be with FI on DI maybe you won't be able to crank your boost up or down and tweak your fuel and timing a bit to compensate. Either that, or you just blast the injectors and run pig rich all the time.

I'm not sure of the compression ratio in the LT1, but it is pretty high in the V6, and serious forced induction builds seem to require different piston heads to lower the CR.


DSX_Camaro 12-05-2014 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autonaut (Post 8091077)
Do you have a reading problem Sir?

THIS is the reason im willing to walk away from any of the makes. Fanboyism. I cant stand it. Neither from the GM folks or Ford freaks.. It's so childish.

I already wrote that the 1LE can out pace a new mustang. And a 4 cylinder turbo for people who value other stuff more important than v8 growl.

I just wrote a very detailed post on whats going on, or maybe even the lack thereof. And all you can manage is to tell me to buy a mustang?

The poster had a point... you seem to be raving about the 2015 Mustang, when the 2016 Camaro is what we're waiting on. And just like with the 2015 Mustang debuting in 2014, the 2016 Camaro will debut in 2015.

The new Mustang is cool, yes. It has neat gimmicks and such (setting traction control and whatever to aircraft-esque switches) but didn't shed any of the weight that Ford was going on and on about. It's not impressive though. The V8 has slightly more power than the old version, they revived the SVO (even though they won't say it) and the V6 got kicked down. It can't compete with the Camaro on a track, still, and anyone that compares it to the current Camaro is going to get a very rude awakening when the Camaro SS jumps up 40hp (and hopefully sheds ~200lbs) and gets M7/A8 transmission choices. The GT350 I'm not even concerned with. Oh boy, it has a flat plane crankshaft that can rev to 8200rpm. Regardless of where torque peaks, it only peaks around 400ftlbs. Yes, it weighs less, but what people aren't seeing is that it's really a ZL1 competitor... No CC brakes, no ridiculous aero upgrades, magnetic ride suspension, cheap price tag. And again, even if the GT350 or upcoming "GT350R" do better than the current Camaro, they are going to be working to catch up to the new Camaro.

Shoot. Just compare the C6 to the C7. C6 Z06 to C7 Z06. The C7 Z06 is faster than the C6 ZR1. The 2016 Camaro will be ridiculous. Don't spoil the surprise. Just wait patiently.


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