Go Back   CAMARO6 > CAMARO6.com General Forums > 2016 Camaro: 6th Gen Camaro forum, news, rumors, discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-30-2010, 06:44 PM   #51
Vega
 
Vega's Avatar
 
Drives: 91' Camaro RS
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 589
Send a message via Yahoo to Vega
Quote:
Originally Posted by wylde1 View Post
I like that idea too, but I heard somewhere that you don't get as good of mileage with it. Doesn't have the same energy content as gasoline. so the cost would probably end up being a wash or mabye slightly more because you'd fill up more often. I can't prove that, and i've never driven an E85 vehicle. but that's just what I've heard.

But I've heard you can get more power out of it! and I like that!
That is true! The reason we havent converted to E85 yet is because it does in fact burn quicker than gas and in such gets worse mileage, so far E85 has been around 50 cents cheaper than gas but when compared mileage-wise gas would go farther on less money, the people behind E85 have been trying to refine the process of creating it to simplify it and make it cheaper so they can sell it cheaper and eventually the cost of MPG will balance out or hopefully surpass gasoline. Im not exactly sure on it but i think the lose in MPG is 2 to 3 miles per gallon by switching, but at $2 a gallon and gas slowely on the rise now (im not speculating cause last year everyone said gas was going back to $4 and i told them they were full of it haha) but if gas keeps rising and E85 stays at about $2 it should surpass gas soon

But i did learn however that the reason you use 3 or so more MPG on E85 is because you would be using it in a motor optimixed for gasoline, Jay Leno did an interview with a guy who built an E85 hot rod and said he built the motor optimized for E85 rather than gas and he gets the same mileage with both, though he makes a good bit more power on E85 cause of the higher octane, you can convert any car though easily but you will suffer a few MPGs, i wonder if GM has taken this into account and if the MPG loss will still be there on this motor if its optimized for both?

These are interesting times indeed haha
Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 06:50 PM   #52
DarricSS

 
DarricSS's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 Camaro SS
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 1,047
Guess the world is really coming to an end in 2012.
__________________
2010, SIM, 2SS/RS, LS3, CGM Stripes
DarricSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 06:51 PM   #53
brandotron
I am the internets.
 
brandotron's Avatar
 
Drives: dangerously
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 12,719
One year in the vette, then we'll have it.
__________________
brandotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 07:27 PM   #54
PatrickfromMD
 
PatrickfromMD's Avatar
 
Drives: Navigator/Corvette/2010 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 415
I’m sorry, but there Is a Replacement for Displacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by wylde1 View Post
Nothing is wrong with modern technology, but don't get so hung up on HP/Litre being the greatest accomplishment an engine can achieve. HP isn't the be all end all. Direct injection and VVT isn't exactly the 2nd coming either. a lower displacement high HP motor makes power very differently, and it FEELS very different. HP alone can give you top speed, not necessarily acceleration.

it's Torque that throws your head back. HP is a by product of TQ (HP = TQ*RPM/5252). TQ is the FORCE pushing you forward and HP is the ENERGY your putting out.

The LS3's peak tq is at higher revs yes, but it makes high average torque through the whole range and that's another factor that is important. Lower displacement motors may make the same peak numbers, or better, but the AVERAGE power is usually lower.

I think you're misunderstanding though, I"m not saying DON"T put this engine in the Camaro. I'm saying put it in the Camaro that is intended for HP numbers which is the Z28... A road racer. Keep the high TQ high displacement motor in the SS, because a muscle car should be about trying to pull the front wheels off the ground.

Neither motor is "bad" and neither one will be "better", they will just make different power different ways, some may prefer one way, others the opposite.

EDIT: I should quantify that last statement. The newest technology motor may be better in more aspects than just the dyno curve. And the TQ may not drop all that much if any because of the newer technology. I'm basing my statements here on generalizations of EXISTING engines. Who knows what the gen V dyno curve will look like, I don't, You don't, I doubt even Fbodfather does yet. It may just turn out to be a mule, god knows chevy's done that to us in the past.
Yes, a 5.5 liter won’t have the torque of a 6.2 liter, but it will likely have more torque per liter, and it will likely be geared to use it more effectively. Bottom line, torque to the rear wheels should be as good or better. If I have to drop it 500 rpms higher, I’ll live with that to get the better economy.
Hopefully they will put the car on a 200lb diet when they release it with the new motor. That should do it.

I was speaking hypothetically with the GM team at the Carlisle show about what I thought would be a good next gen motor. I received an answer from one to the effect that there was no need to guess, he had already seen it ( I also believe he was piloting one of the Camaro Convertibles during the 5 car excursion earlier in the month.) BTW, I’m sure Fbodfather knows as well, he runs in the same pack. Obviously that was as much detail as I was going to get. When talking to another GM team member on the broader picture (across all the model line) he indicated an increasing shift to forced induction. Hey, maybe we might see a FI 5.5 for the Z28 one day??? (BTW- when I asked when we would see a Z28 convertible, the reply was there has to be a Z28 coupe first)
So those of you (like me) who are old school, “there is no replacement for displacement” have to realize, it’s going to be replaced if we like it or not. Face it, like Mad Max, we have the “last of Big V8s”.
Hell, It could be worse, GM could be planning to have a volt derivative for the Camaro. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited about the serial electric power train,……just not excited to see it in a Camaro )
__________________

***56K miles and still going strong***
2SS/RS IOM ext w/cyber grey stripes, tinted windows, IO int Auto
ProTorque prototype Converter, Chuck Mosello of Westchester Corvettes Custom Tune
T&T installed SLP Longtubes, Powerflow X Pipe, and Powerflow axle back
JL 10W3 in custom side sub box, new door tweeters, Alpine 5ch 600 watt
T&T configured ACS front Fascia w/ heritage grill, splitter, dual color halos, , led markers, taillight bezels , all accented in CGM
Gary Custom Z vented fenders. Vararam ver 2
PatrickfromMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 07:41 PM   #55
RLHMARINES
1st Civ. Div.
 
RLHMARINES's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Black, aka "Big SexZ"
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 1,164
I think that gm has some serious v8 firepower headed our way within the next few years. I also think that the new ford 5.0 motors output is great but is not that impressive given that it is a clean sheet ground up designed dohc v8. you only have to look at fords 6.2 v8 raptor f150 to compare gm ls 6.2 v8 for output. The ford is ohc and the ls is ohv but the output is similar. The ls engines go back to '97-'98 with the newer dodge hemi being a loose copy of the ls engines and the new ford v8's just starting to hit the street to give our ls engines a run for it's money. This competition will only make gm better in the long run.

The next gen v8 will come in various displacement, do not read too much into the 5.5 ltr v8 for c7 corvette hype. This is what gm is using in new gt2 class c6r corvettes per the new american le mans series (alms) rules that take effect next year on engine displacement/hp restrictions. Corvette racing is using the upcoming next gen v8 but the displacement is not production spec, per Corvette racing's head Doug Fehan.

I believe gm will have a ohv and dual cam engines built from the next gen v8 that will serve various mission/applications based on the info below:

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/new...eunionuaw.html

econd United Auto Workers Agreement Reveals General Motors' Potential Future Truck Plans
By: Mike Levine Posted: 10-01-07 12:30 PT
© 2007 PickupTruck.com

Page: [1]

Update #1: 10-01-07 12:55 PT

I've clarified my comment about SIDI being similar to a diesel. Both diesels and SIDI engines directly inject fuel into the combustion chamber. I've added text that diesels rely on high compression ratios to auto-ignite the fuel-air mixture, whereas SIDI motors still use a spark plug.

A reader also brought to my attention that Honda uses cylinder deactivation in its 3.5-liter SOHC V6 engine. My point - and it should have been stated more clearly - is that cylinder deactivation hasn't seen fuel economy returns worth the investment necessary for a full size truck's overhead cam V8 - or else Toyota and Ford would have offered this in their OHC V8s already.

------

This is the toughest story I've written.

On Friday afternoon I watched the newswires and Wall Street Journal break information about GM's future product plans that were revealed in the "White Book" agreement between GM and the UAW settling last week's strike.

One of the items that caught my attention was the name of GM's next full size truck platform, C3XX. So, I went and did some more background searching on the 'C3XX' identifier, using Google.

To my surprise a second, internal UAW-GM document appeared in Google's search results. The document can be found on the Future of the Union website and Google's publicly available search cache.

On Friday the document ranked much higher in the search results, before the "White Book" news containing the 'C3XX' term at more popular websites moved up in Google's page rankings.

The information about what's contained in that document is in the story below.

After wrestling with this decision, and consulting with several colleagues, I've decided to publish this story because I believe it's relevant to the "White Book" news and GM's current state of affairs with the UAW.

- M.L.

A document found online (using Google) at the Future of the Union website suggests that General Motors is preparing to substantially overhaul the engine lineup used in its next generation full size trucks.

Future of the Union has published an internal memorandum of understanding that contains detailed information about contract negotiations that took place in June 2007 among the United Auto Worker (UAW) union, General Motors (GM), and GM’s largest supplier, Delphi.

The document contains GM’s future product commitments to UAW-represented employees at Delphi, similar to the future product timelines that emerged from the recent strike settlement contract between GM and the UAW.

Most notable are the powertrain components that Delphi is expected to supply for use in the C3XX truck program, starting in 2011. The C3XX platform will replace the current GMT 900 architecture that underpins the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra full size pickups.

According to the document, C3XX pickups will feature a new 'Gen V' 6.2-liter dual overhead cam (DOHC) V8 engine - a major departure from GM's traditional overhead valve (OHV) pushrod engine design used in its trucks, like the ‘Gen IV’ 403-horsepower / 417 lb-feet L92 6.2-liter V8 under the hood of the GMC Sierra Denali. The only DOHC V8 GM currently offers is Cadillac’s 4.6-liter Northstar engine.

The Gen V 6.2 motor will use variable valve timing (VVT) like the Gen IV 6.2, but the use of dual overhead cams holds the promise of four valves per cylinder instead of the current two valves, for better intake and exhaust flow and increased power. This is a similar setup to the 5.7-liter i-Force V8 used in the Toyota Tundra, but the Gen V 6.2 will also offer GM's active fuel management (AFM) system. AFM shuts down half the cylinders during steady state running for improved fuel economy – a feature not currently available for the i-Force. Up until this point, it’s been conventional wisdom that implementing cylinder deactivation on OHC engines is impractical for reasons of cost and complexity.

Pushrod engines won’t be disappearing entirely from GM’s truck line. A new ‘Gen V’ OHV V8 will replace the current 320-hp / 340 lb-feet 5.3-liter V8. Apparently the final displacement hasn’t been determined yet, because it’s referred to as 5X.

The new 5X gasoline engine will feature spark ignition direct injection (SIDI), similar to a diesel's fuel injection setup but still using a spark plug to ignite the fuel instead of diesel's high compression ratio that causes the fuel air mixture to auto-ignite. SIDI places the fuel injector right inside the combustion chamber, so fuel can be directly mixed with air entering the chamber during the intake stroke instead of before it enters the chamber, like in a conventional multi-port fuel injected gas engine. This approach enables a leaner burn of the fuel at higher compression ratios than current gas engines, resulting in greater fuel economy, cleaner emissions, and more power.

Initial production of both engines is slated to start in 2011 with full production in 2012.

Of course, it's possible that because this information is still approximately three years out in time, plans detailed in this document for the full size truck powertrains could still change.

Contacted for comment, a GM spokesperson told PickupTruck.com that GM doesn't make statements about documents like this.

There was no phone number or names listed to contact the Future of the Union website for comment.

Page: [1]

Last edited by RLHMARINES; 06-30-2010 at 07:52 PM.
RLHMARINES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 07:43 PM   #56
96_2010_CAMARO
 
96_2010_CAMARO's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SIM Camaro 2SS/RS , liberty kk
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: somewhere beyond
Posts: 382
Send a message via MSN to 96_2010_CAMARO
I'll mod mine and it will have more displacement more hp & more TQ
then i shall kick 5.0 mustang + 6.4 challenger + ( 5.5 camaro :P ) ass
__________________
2012 2SS/RS silver ice metallic camaro
96_2010_CAMARO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 12:46 AM   #57
bobby35ny

 
bobby35ny's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South East, FL
Posts: 1,636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Ohhh, i cant believe i forgot to mention this! haha, im a huge supporter of E85 so id LOVE to see an E85 engine in both the Camaro and Corvette, E85 is way cleaner, home grown, despite rumors and trash talk does NOT effect the food supply at all, it has a higher octane rating and such is a better performance fuel, AND its cheaper than gasoline! Its all around perfect. Yesterday i was driving around Indiana and saw gas for $2.71 and E85 for $2.08, a Corvette with an E85 motor would be an amazing accomplishment and would go a long way to return the Corvette to its All American Icon status, all the while smashing the stupid ideas of putting FI V6s in our top of the line sport/muscle cars, and that might be one big step towards shifting the whole world's fuel supplies back in our favor, i love the idea of E85 muscle cars, and what better car to take the first step and get everyone else on board than the legendary Corvette?

I love GM more and more every day...
xD
Corn Ethanol is such a farce, sugarcane is much better, like 7X better. One big problem is to process Ethanol, you waste more energy to make it, LOL/
-bobby
__________________
ZL1::J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS
bobby35ny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 12:46 AM   #58
Z/28orSs
 
Z/28orSs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 ss
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 663
it better live up to the ls name plate i dont want anoter 80"s repeat
__________________
Z/28orSs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 01:03 AM   #59
fielderLS3


 
fielderLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Alero, 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portage, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by wylde1 View Post
I like that idea too, but I heard somewhere that you don't get as good of mileage with it. Doesn't have the same energy content as gasoline. so the cost would probably end up being a wash or mabye slightly more because you'd fill up more often. I can't prove that, and i've never driven an E85 vehicle. but that's just what I've heard.

But I've heard you can get more power out of it! and I like that!
You get more power out of ethanol because it has a very high octane rating, so you can go crazy with compression and timing when using it.

You are right about energy content. Ethanol has about 2/3 as much energy per gallon than gasoline. An engine that gets 20 mpg on gas would get about 14 mpg on E85 if all other factors were the same.
__________________
"Proven V-8 power with better efficiency than a turbo V-6"

"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."eds.
fielderLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 03:36 AM   #60
76z28
 
76z28's Avatar
 
Drives: 1976 camaro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: bakersfield
Posts: 473
If you are all worried about torque i bet gm will throw in a gear option in there
a high winding engine that makes torque up higher in the rpm range is very fun
its a step in the right directions if they do a 5.0 to compete with ford all the better
as LONG as they make it lighter
76z28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 05:11 AM   #61
fielderLS3


 
fielderLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Alero, 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portage, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,236
I still don't understand why people think the new engine will produce less torque. Isn't it just going to be a slightly downsized version of the current engine, plus VVT and DI? I'd be willing to bet the torque curve on the new engine will be very similar to the LS3 (who knows, with the variable valve timing, low-end torque may actually improve), and that given the lighter chassis, the 6th gens will be relatively faster than the current car at any given RPM.

It is kind of funny that so many are coming out to say what is wrong with the 2015 Camaro 4 years before it is launched. The engineers at GM don't even know what will be "wrong with it" yet.
__________________
"Proven V-8 power with better efficiency than a turbo V-6"

"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."eds.
fielderLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 09:12 AM   #62
zora2mac8
Deano
 
zora2mac8's Avatar
 
Drives: Cyber Gray Metallic SS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 128
sounds like a plan.. and its a good lookin number.. would be a kool badge haha. 5.5 NIIIIIIICE
__________________
Nessuno mi provoca essere senza punita!

HTML Code:
http://ny5thgen.com/ZORAMAC8%20Z.htm
zora2mac8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 10:38 AM   #63
phenixdragon

 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by wylde1 View Post
I wonder what that will do for the TQ numbers. I'm a fan of smaller displacement higher revving engines, but they're usually a different purpose. A muscle car should be built for TQ, a race car should be build for HP. Makes sense to put it in the vette, I'd like to see it in the camaro if it makes gobs of TQ too.
"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." - Carroll Shelby

TQ is what you want for racing. It's want pulls you out of the corners and is what gets you moving.
phenixdragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 11:53 AM   #64
stand-al0ne
Rev Couture
 
stand-al0ne's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 LS Camaro & 2013 Rav4 Ltd
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jamlando, FL
Posts: 1,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
A few notes:

Yes, it could get the new engine. Yes it could be faster, yes it could also kill the new SRT8 Challenger. Yes it could have 440 HP but less torque than the current LS3. Yes it could be awesome.

Yes a Z28, LSA powered Camaro could beat the new 6.4L Hemi Challenger. Yes it could kill it.

But it isnt, its speculation. The 6.4L IS going into the Challenger SRT8 with 480 HP. Basic bolt on mods (such as a catback, tune, longtubes and CAI) will put it over 500 crank HP, if not closer to 525. If it does get a new automatic dont expect the overall weight to raise more than 20 pounds, and it will already be lighter due to the fact it is based on the 5.7L Hemi, and not the 6.1L.

The simple fact is Dodge and Ford have put new engines in their vehicles and have listened to complaints and suggestions. The 2011 Mustang in every trim has either recieved new engines or raises in power. The 2011 Challenger SRT8 has a new engine and is getting a better interior and other changes.

What has the Camaro recieved? a HUD and a new color of paint for the SS. Now GM couldnt do anything really, but they MUST *MUST* do something other than throw a convertible onto the market for next year. The Z28 isnt confirmed, so it doesnt count, I'm sorry.



GM is now compeletly behind in the 2011 HP/Pony/Muscle car wars and has lost the 2011 model year features/numbers war in bragging rights except for 2010 sales. The 2011 GT500 with 550 HP and the 480 HP SRT8 Challenger both overpower and can outrun a LS3 SS. Of course drivers will make the difference.

Do something GM, 2010 was so awesome for you, and I want 2012 to be again awesome. Take 2011 to understand that you cant sit back and gloat, or you WILL lose the war, no matter what battles you won.

Sounds like the 6.4L motor and cosmetic changes are only going to make your Challenger heavier...which is too bad because its already a fat slob. But yes they do look good on the outside, but they need that inside less rent-a-charger like.

Thankfully GM's design team tackles problems by lightening our car with a smaller 5.5 (or 5.7L) motor, yes upping the HP, lightens the new chassis, and will make an even better Camaro than what is already awesome.
Can Dodge not up the HP without upping the displacement?
__________________
EBC Brakes| DOT 4|Bigworm| SickSpeed| BMR | IPF | Vararam| MRT |MGW | Nitto | Rx |
Iggee |ZL-1 Sways| Hurst | Apex Racing|Past: Srt-4| 6.0L GTO- RIP | '98 Integra

stand-al0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 12:07 PM   #65
2010 Bumblebee

 
2010 Bumblebee's Avatar
 
Drives: Transformers Edition Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mass
Posts: 1,050
I'd rather see a 7.0 LS7, a 6.2 LSA, or a 6.2 LS9

I would not want a 5.7 instead of a 6.2. Who would ?

I'd rather see a 7.0 LS7, a 6.2 LSA, or a 6.2 LS9.

You can always get more out of a bigger engine. Scew smaller motors.
I didn't buy my camaro for gas milage. I bought it for pleasure !
__________________
The Yellow Camaro Club
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/group.php?groupid=128

Northern Massachusetts & Southern New Hampshire Camaro Club
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/group.php?groupid=127

The mother of all supercharger questions thread
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77958

My 2010 Camaro Review
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2025442#post2025442

2010 Transformer Edition Camaro L99 Auto
2010 Bumblebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 12:13 PM   #66
2010 Bumblebee

 
2010 Bumblebee's Avatar
 
Drives: Transformers Edition Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mass
Posts: 1,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarricSS View Post
Guess the world is really coming to an end in 2012.
I think so.
__________________
The Yellow Camaro Club
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/group.php?groupid=128

Northern Massachusetts & Southern New Hampshire Camaro Club
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/group.php?groupid=127

The mother of all supercharger questions thread
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77958

My 2010 Camaro Review
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2025442#post2025442

2010 Transformer Edition Camaro L99 Auto
2010 Bumblebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 12:37 PM   #67
ViperTomcat
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 Avenger Heat
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by stand-al0ne View Post
Sounds like the 6.4L motor and cosmetic changes are only going to make your Challenger heavier...which is too bad because its already a fat slob. But yes they do look good on the outside, but they need that inside less rent-a-charger like.
Ya know..whatever.

The Challenger isnt going to be gaining any real weight, if any. Its going to have more HP and TQ than the other two (except the GT500) and will have a performance edge on the LS3 Camaro's.

Done.
ViperTomcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 01:15 PM   #68
stand-al0ne
Rev Couture
 
stand-al0ne's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 LS Camaro & 2013 Rav4 Ltd
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jamlando, FL
Posts: 1,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
Ya know..whatever.

The Challenger isnt going to be gaining any real weight, if any. Its going to have more HP and TQ than the other two (except the GT500) and will have a performance edge on the LS3 Camaro's.

Done.

So, can you clarify, you're saying the 2011 R/T Challenger will have a performance edge on the 2010 LS3's?, because that would be the real apples to apples comparison right? Shouldn't the SRT-8 challenger be reserved for our top of the line camaro - the Z28?

But if instead you are trying to say your top of the line 2011 challenger will be better than a 2010 camaro ss, well...it almost should shouldnt it? It would be sad if a 6.4 L 475hp blah blah blah challenger failed against a Camaro that debuted when the challenger was a 6.1L...
__________________
EBC Brakes| DOT 4|Bigworm| SickSpeed| BMR | IPF | Vararam| MRT |MGW | Nitto | Rx |
Iggee |ZL-1 Sways| Hurst | Apex Racing|Past: Srt-4| 6.0L GTO- RIP | '98 Integra

stand-al0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 01:30 PM   #69
ViperTomcat
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 Avenger Heat
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by stand-al0ne View Post
So, can you clarify, you're saying the 2011 R/T Challenger will have a performance edge on the 2010 LS3's?, because that would be the real apples to apples comparison right? Shouldn't the SRT-8 challenger be reserved for our top of the line camaro - the Z28?

But if instead you are trying to say your top of the line 2011 challenger will be better than a 2010 camaro ss, well...it almost should shouldnt it? It would be sad if a 6.4 L 475hp blah blah blah challenger failed against a Camaro that debuted when the challenger was a 6.1L...
No..I'm saying the SRT's will.

The R/T's arent getting touched. And the Z-28 doesnt even exist, so its compared to the SS because that is the top of the line.
ViperTomcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 01:45 PM   #70
oramac0002
 
oramac0002's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 64
I've read this in a magazine and I believe it myself and it said theres no replacement for displacement.
oramac0002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 02:43 PM   #71
stand-al0ne
Rev Couture
 
stand-al0ne's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 LS Camaro & 2013 Rav4 Ltd
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jamlando, FL
Posts: 1,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by oramac0002 View Post
I've read this in a magazine and I believe it myself and it said theres no replacement for displacement.
High Times
__________________
EBC Brakes| DOT 4|Bigworm| SickSpeed| BMR | IPF | Vararam| MRT |MGW | Nitto | Rx |
Iggee |ZL-1 Sways| Hurst | Apex Racing|Past: Srt-4| 6.0L GTO- RIP | '98 Integra

stand-al0ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 05:33 PM   #72
fielderLS3


 
fielderLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: 02 Alero, 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portage, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010 Bumblebee View Post
I would not want a 5.7 instead of a 6.2. Who would ?

I'd rather see a 7.0 LS7, a 6.2 LSA, or a 6.2 LS9.

You can always get more out of a bigger engine. Scew smaller motors.
I didn't buy my camaro for gas milage. I bought it for pleasure !
Nobody buys a Camaro SS for gas mileage, but in the infinite wisdom of our benevolent government, it would be better if you did, so it is going to be forced on you whether you like it or not.

I would love to see all this power adding technology attached to the LS3 or larger engine (think 500+hp SS), but the realities 35 mpg CAFE will soon make big displacement V8s impossible except for low volume, high priced cars. Once these draconian fuel economy mandates are in farce, the only viable options for a future SS will be downsized V8s or turbo V6s. These new engines are the best you can expect in this regulatory environment.
__________________
"Proven V-8 power with better efficiency than a turbo V-6"

"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."eds.
fielderLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 12:59 AM   #73
PatrickfromMD
 
PatrickfromMD's Avatar
 
Drives: Navigator/Corvette/2010 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertyforall1776 View Post
More HP per lite is great, but I want that torque monster too...
It's close...

2011 Mustang GT 5.0 liter (302 cu. in.) engine displacement that will produce 412 horsepower and 390 ft/lbs of torque.

vs.

2011 Camaro SS 6.2 L (380 cu in) LS3 V8 producing 426 hp (318 kW) and 420 lbf·ft (570 N·m) at 4600 rpm

or

2011 Corvette C6 6.2 L (380 cu in) LS3, resulting in 436 bhp (325 kW) and 428 lb·ft (580 N·m) if ordered with the optional performance exhaust
Effective torque will be better. I estimate the 5.4 to be 5% lower in torque, but 10% higher usable RPM band, thus a net gain. If the car has 10% better gears you will have more torque at the rear wheels (alternativly, just keep it in gear longer).
__________________

***56K miles and still going strong***
2SS/RS IOM ext w/cyber grey stripes, tinted windows, IO int Auto
ProTorque prototype Converter, Chuck Mosello of Westchester Corvettes Custom Tune
T&T installed SLP Longtubes, Powerflow X Pipe, and Powerflow axle back
JL 10W3 in custom side sub box, new door tweeters, Alpine 5ch 600 watt
T&T configured ACS front Fascia w/ heritage grill, splitter, dual color halos, , led markers, taillight bezels , all accented in CGM
Gary Custom Z vented fenders. Vararam ver 2
PatrickfromMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 01:01 AM   #74
KamaroKirb
Hell's janitor
 
KamaroKirb's Avatar
 
Drives: 1995 Z28 camaro
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: cleveland, OH
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperTomcat View Post
A few notes:

Yes, it could get the new engine. Yes it could be faster, yes it could also kill the new SRT8 Challenger. Yes it could have 440 HP but less torque than the current LS3. Yes it could be awesome.

Yes a Z28, LSA powered Camaro could beat the new 6.4L Hemi Challenger. Yes it could kill it.

But it isnt, its speculation. The 6.4L IS going into the Challenger SRT8 with 480 HP. Basic bolt on mods (such as a catback, tune, longtubes and CAI) will put it over 500 crank HP, if not closer to 525. If it does get a new automatic dont expect the overall weight to raise more than 20 pounds, and it will already be lighter due to the fact it is based on the 5.7L Hemi, and not the 6.1L.

The simple fact is Dodge and Ford have put new engines in their vehicles and have listened to complaints and suggestions. The 2011 Mustang in every trim has either recieved new engines or raises in power. The 2011 Challenger SRT8 has a new engine and is getting a better interior and other changes.

What has the Camaro recieved? a HUD and a new color of paint for the SS. Now GM couldnt do anything really, but they MUST *MUST* do something other than throw a convertible onto the market for next year. The Z28 isnt confirmed, so it doesnt count, I'm sorry.



GM is now compeletly behind in the 2011 HP/Pony/Muscle car wars and has lost the 2011 model year features/numbers war in bragging rights except for 2010 sales. The 2011 GT500 with 550 HP and the 480 HP SRT8 Challenger both overpower and can outrun a LS3 SS. Of course drivers will make the difference.

Do something GM, 2010 was so awesome for you, and I want 2012 to be again awesome. Take 2011 to understand that you cant sit back and gloat, or you WILL lose the war, no matter what battles you won.

This guy is completely failing to realize that ford is upgrading to catch up and so is dodge. That just drops the camaro to the same level as the mustang not under the mustang. And dodge engines still fail even after they upgraded. The 5.7Hemi is still nowhere near the 5.0 mustang or ls3 camaro. And the new SRT engine is also nowhere near the gt500 or "possible" Z28.
__________________
All hail...
KamaroKirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 01:20 AM   #75
76z28
 
76z28's Avatar
 
Drives: 1976 camaro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: bakersfield
Posts: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010 Bumblebee View Post
I would not want a 5.7 instead of a 6.2. Who would ?

I'd rather see a 7.0 LS7, a 6.2 LSA, or a 6.2 LS9.

You can always get more out of a bigger engine. Scew smaller motors.
I didn't buy my camaro for gas milage. I bought it for pleasure !

5.7 is legendary is why
and they run plenty good ls1!
76z28 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5th Gen Suspension -- The Book JusticePete Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 148 09-04-2013 03:28 PM
Im sure this has been asked before.. But forgive my innocence :) gmag21 Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 23 02-21-2010 11:29 PM
GM memo to dealers Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 02-04-2010 08:33 PM
Answeres to questions I have stumbled on dieseldave24v 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 13 02-23-2009 07:56 PM
Past Camaro reliability and Future 5th Gen JMROD 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 52 04-13-2008 03:15 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.