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Old 07-16-2014, 03:32 PM   #15
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Wayyyy to early to count out GM.

Going on Alpha and giving the car the proper weight loss it deserves is all GM needs to have a game changer.

Have you guys already forgotten how friggin bad@ss the Z/28 is? I'm not saying the GT350 or 350R (whatever it ends up being) won't compete or beat the Z/28, but its a very high mark forsure.

Now imagine if the Z/28 was a few hundred lbs lighter, just how much more amazing it would be?? Well...thats all possible with alpha. Throw in a higher output version of the LT1 in it and we're golden again.

Also, as some are saying above concerning the GT500 and the Hellcat, the LT4 in an Alpha chassis would still be very competitive at around 650 HP b/c it would likely weigh around 3,900 lbs. Thats a good 3 or 400 lbs less than the hellcat and would be very competitive, especially with its very ample TQ rating which isn't much lower than Hellcat.

I don't see GM chasing the 700+HP mark.....and I don't think they need to either.

Now if Ford happens to do another GT500, and decides to dethrone the Hellcat on power ratings, it will likely weigh right around 3,900 to 4,000 lbs as well....that could be a problem.

Anyways, back to my point...I don't think we should be worried at all.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Wayyyy to early to count out GM.



Going on Alpha and giving the car the proper weight loss it deserves is all GM needs to have a game changer.



Have you guys already forgotten how friggin bad@ss the Z/28 is? I'm not saying the GT350 or 350R (whatever it ends up being) won't compete or beat the Z/28, but its a very high mark forsure.



Now imagine if the Z/28 was a few hundred lbs lighter, just how much more amazing it would be?? Well...thats all possible with alpha. Throw in a higher output version of the LT1 in it and we're golden again.



Also, as some are saying above concerning the GT500 and the Hellcat, the LT4 in an Alpha chassis would still be very competitive at around 650 HP b/c it would likely weigh around 3,900 lbs. Thats a good 3 or 400 lbs less than the hellcat and would be very competitive, especially with its very ample TQ rating which isn't much lower than Hellcat.



I don't see GM chasing the 700+HP mark.....and I don't think they need to either.



Now if Ford happens to do another GT500, and decides to dethrone the Hellcat on power ratings, it will likely weigh right around 3,900 to 4,000 lbs as well....that could be a problem.



Anyways, back to my point...I don't think we should be worried at all.

Agreed. GM will let the Ford boys push the envelope, test the waters and be reined on by lawyers and corporate even as they manage to debut an awesome car. Then GM will be able to put the money saved, the risk avoided and the lawyers appeased aside and come out with a better car.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:02 PM   #17
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If they're smart they won't play that game. The Corvette is already the bestselling car in it's price+performance segment. On the drag strip, a stock Mustang is going to beat a stock Camaro but yet the Camaro has sold better.

I expect a performance upgrade in the next Camaro but I'm also not worried about what the highest end models will or won't be capable of.

Dude the camaro has sold better cause of all the pink camaros were putting out for college teens and similar.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Wayyyy to early to count out GM.

Going on Alpha and giving the car the proper weight loss it deserves is all GM needs to have a game changer.

Have you guys already forgotten how friggin bad@ss the Z/28 is? I'm not saying the GT350 or 350R (whatever it ends up being) won't compete or beat the Z/28, but its a very high mark forsure.

Now imagine if the Z/28 was a few hundred lbs lighter, just how much more amazing it would be?? Well...thats all possible with alpha. Throw in a higher output version of the LT1 in it and we're golden again.

Also, as some are saying above concerning the GT500 and the Hellcat, the LT4 in an Alpha chassis would still be very competitive at around 650 HP b/c it would likely weigh around 3,900 lbs. Thats a good 3 or 400 lbs less than the hellcat and would be very competitive, especially with its very ample TQ rating which isn't much lower than Hellcat.

I don't see GM chasing the 700+HP mark.....and I don't think they need to either.

Now if Ford happens to do another GT500, and decides to dethrone the Hellcat on power ratings, it will likely weigh right around 3,900 to 4,000 lbs as well....that could be a problem.

Anyways, back to my point...I don't think we should be worried at all.
I'm not counting them out, just saying they need to shake some of the rules they have about their hierarchy. Not to mention how they don't develop their engines further once they are in a car.

Putting the Camaro on the Alpha will be a big upgrade but I don't see how it's a game changer. The Camaro will probably end up weighing around what the 2015+ Mustang weighs.

The Z/28 is an awesome car but it is one car and look what it took to get it? It is the most expensive Camaro ever and built in small numbers. From the videos of the GT350 mules running The Ring, it sure sounds like a flat plane crank. Now, the LS7 is an amazing engine but the difference is, it was built for another car.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:47 PM   #19
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Performance is more than just high horse power and straight lines... And for the record I don't remember Ford releasing their Nurburgring times when they tested their current GT500..
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:49 PM   #20
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Performance is more than just high horse power and straight lines... And for the record I don't remember Ford releasing their Nurburgring times when they tested their current GT500..
They did not and likely never will. Same is likely for this new model.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:52 PM   #21
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http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/show...t350-2462.html

New svt mustang is already testing at the nring. Camaro sixth gen better bring performance right out the gate.


LOL, I love those pictures. Looks like some neighborhoods here in Los Angeles.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:11 PM   #22
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Performance is more than just high horse power and straight lines... And for the record I don't remember Ford releasing their Nurburgring times when they tested their current GT500..
Because the Z whooped it . Think it was near my 2004 chevy van in track times 10 minutes or so give or take a minute
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:26 PM   #23
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After all this I fear a twin turbo small V-8 with numbers to make your jaw drop. But it's a turbo.....
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:49 PM   #24
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Not entirely sure why anyone still believes GM will respond to these HP / drag wars when they have not bumped the power even a tiny bit on the 5th gen since the launch of either the SS or ZL1. They have simply chosen to offer 3 road race versions of the car.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #25
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The issue is will they actually do something about it? I don't see how GM would handle the Hellcat, let alone a future GT500 making more power. They aren't even equipped to handle the GT350, if it is actually making 500+ horsepower.

With the SRT 392 now making 485 horsepower and the way Ford has been upgrading the 5.0 over time, the LT1 may be the least powerful of the entry V8 engines.
Gee , everyone just wants more power and more power
But at this HP level , other things that used to be not that important , they are the ones that really makes the difference
What good it does , if one got a shitload off HP , but really can't find a way to use all of it , just because can't find the right mix of those other things to keep those crazy HP on the ground
It's almost like those guys at high school , that are seen all the time surrounded by the hot girls , but for some reason , that's just that
They are just for show , if one can't use it
And we all know some of those guys ! They always existed .
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:04 PM   #26
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Carbon fiber trunk and hood panels would increase their performance and credibility at entry level pricing (24k). We've always had the power, it's what we do with everything else that matters.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:22 PM   #27
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I have little faith that GM will answer the call of the Hellcat and 14 GT500 with comparable HP numbers, they cannot put more HP in a Camaro than the Z06 so they are at a serious disadvantage. They can take weight off the Gen 6 and make another Z28 but they won't have bragging rights or a competitive Quarter mile car without big HP gains over the current ZL1.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:33 AM   #28
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The Hellcat, and the GT500 are both going to be great but in all reality they are not really that relevant. Sure you win bragging rights with cars like these but they are very limited in production and precious few will ever own one. Same goes for the ZL1 and Z28. The majority of Camaro owners will be buying the SS and the v6 models. How those stack up against the Mustang and Challenger compareable models will be more relevant to sales and success of the Camaro.
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