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Old 06-23-2014, 01:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRat View Post
Not a lot of V8's will play well with over 45psig manifold boost and >8500 rpm.

There are very few 6's that can pull it off.

That being said, I'd never buy a 4 banger in a Camaro. It doesn't mean it's not a great engine, it just means I wouldn't buy a six either. Or an automatic. Or a 'vert. Or put 20"s or larger on one. Or put any chrome on it. Or put a radio in one.

For me, it's got to be a huge NA V8 with a true MANual and a hardtop.
I'm with you on every point buddy.
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Old 06-23-2014, 01:58 PM   #52
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Turbo 4 cyl... In a muscle car...
The times, they are a-changin'.

The new GM is in love with 4-bangers (turbo & NA), putting them in a lot of cars that never had them before, e.g., Impalas and CTSs.

It's an industry-wide trend, with companies like Ford & BMW also moving this way.

Personally, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach. A 4-cylinder anything in the current Camaro seems absurd. But the new Camaro? Well, who knows? If it's a leaner, lighter, more sports-car-than-muscle-car kind of vehicle, then maybe a turbo 4 as a base engine makes a certain amount of sense. We'll see.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:06 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
The times, they are a-changin'.

The new GM is in love with 4-bangers (turbo & NA), putting them in a lot of cars that never had them before, e.g., Impalas and CTSs.

It's an industry-wide trend, with companies like Ford & BMW also moving this way.

Personally, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach. A 4-cylinder anything in the current Camaro seems absurd. But the new Camaro? Well, who knows? If it's a leaner, lighter, more sports-car-than-muscle-car kind of vehicle, then maybe a turbo 4 as a base engine makes a certain amount of sense. We'll see.
4 cyl doesn't scream Camaro. I don't want my muscle car to sound like a SS cobalt. It doesn't matter to me if it makes more HP than the v8, its not the same. I'd just call the car something else instead of Camaro.

Its kinda like the new BMW M cars going boost. Sure its faster than previous cars, but its not the same soul of the car. Atleast Camaro gets a v8 option I guess.

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Old 06-23-2014, 02:18 PM   #54
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NO 4 banger PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
i dont care if it makes 600hp. i cant fathom hearing a riceburner sound out of a muscle car. especially a camaro!!!
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:27 PM   #55
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One of each please.

Now where's that lottery ticket
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:33 PM   #56
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The chasis they are using already exists (Alpha) and already accepts those engines. No added cost that hasn't already been spent.
What he's said.

I don't understand why the car makers in the US make always a big mystery about the upcoming lineup.

Car makers make money by commonizing car parts thru all platforms. Look at VW MQB or even Chrsyler. Same Engine, same transmission, steering wheel and so on.

It's known for a while the new Camaro is based on the Alpha (Caddy ATS).

Look at the ATS Specs and the Corvette Specs and you will know what will come into the new Camaro
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by halo8hkk View Post
NO 4 banger PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
i dont care if it makes 600hp. i cant fathom hearing a riceburner sound out of a muscle car. especially a camaro!!!
While I love V8 rumble, diesel roar, V12 howl, and two-stroke scream, I'm kind of liking this Ecotec sound (fast forward to 3:45):



This is faster than the last one posted.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:44 PM   #58
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That's not true at all. You have millions in R&D dollars per platform. You have to engineer an entire new driveline. It doesn't matter that the chassis already exists and accepts those engines. You have a totally different configuration and everything has to be custom-sized and mounted. You're also going to need to design and tune a whole different suspension setup. Then there is the liability of adding a 4 cylinder to a line of carbs that have never had a 4 cylinder motor. The V6's and V8's are known sellers, and the I-4's will have to be subsidized through then. Expect the V6 and V8 costs to increase in order to pay for the I-4's debut.

The cheapest way to make the Camaro is to make one car with no options. Want a cheap Camaro? Every single Camaro is a black 2SS with a manual transmission. Prices would fall, or GM could sell them for the same price but at a much higher margin. This is why Ford initially only made black cars - just the availability of the options costs money because you have all that R&D into something that may or may not even sell.
If every Camaro built was an SS, prices would skyrocket because GM would have to limit sales to keep its CAFE numbers from plummeting. Why do you think the SS sedan starts at $45k and has little to no advertising outside of NASCAR?

That 2.0T is what's allowing the LT1/LT4 to go into Camaro. Don't like it? Better start writing your representatives.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
The times, they are a-changin'.

The new GM is in love with 4-bangers (turbo & NA), putting them in a lot of cars that never had them before, e.g., Impalas and CTSs.

It's an industry-wide trend, with companies like Ford & BMW also moving this way.

Personally, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach. A 4-cylinder anything in the current Camaro seems absurd. But the new Camaro? Well, who knows? If it's a leaner, lighter, more sports-car-than-muscle-car kind of vehicle, then maybe a turbo 4 as a base engine makes a certain amount of sense. We'll see.
This, times are changing. All the automakers are going to have to do drastic things to meet CAFE requirements, aluminum F-150s powered by 2.7L turbo V-6s, eco diesel rams, Silverado and Sierra are going aluminum eventually too. Look at all the cars out there that you can get a 4 cyl or turbo 4 cyl in. Hell even FULL SIZE cars are getting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blake2010ss View Post
4 cyl doesn't scream Camaro. I don't want my muscle car to sound like a SS cobalt. It doesn't matter to me if it makes more HP than the v8, its not the same. I'd just call the car something else instead of Camaro.

Its kinda like the new BMW M cars going boost. Sure its faster than previous cars, but its not the same soul of the car. Atleast Camaro gets a v8 option I guess.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by halo8hkk View Post
NO 4 banger PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
i dont care if it makes 600hp. i cant fathom hearing a riceburner sound out of a muscle car. especially a camaro!!!
While I agree 4 cylinder doesnt scream Camaro or mustang to me, if it helps GM and Ford build a more bad ass V-8 pony car I am all for it. and besides, if you don't like it, don't buy it!
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #60
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I hope GM develops a higher performance 6.2 liter based off the LT1 similar to the LS6 and LS1. Do CNC ported heads, high flowing intake manifold, no AFM, a more aggressive cam shaft, titanium intake valves and tubular shorty headers. Maybe a bump in compression.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:15 PM   #61
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i LOVED the 2.0T on my Solstice GXP - after tuning i got 313 rwhp and a lot of fun.
top speed i saw was 163 before i chickened out.
plus the $8-$10/week on gasoline made for greater social options!
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:28 PM   #62
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Turbo 4 is coming and is here to stay. CAFE standards will push everything this direction. We can thank our government officials for forcing the Supply and Demand free enterprise model into what they think we need.

Reminds me of Denis Leary's rant from Demolition Man:


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Old 06-23-2014, 03:33 PM   #63
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That's not true at all. You have millions in R&D dollars per platform. You have to engineer an entire new driveline. It doesn't matter that the chassis already exists and accepts those engines. You have a totally different configuration and everything has to be custom-sized and mounted. You're also going to need to design and tune a whole different suspension setup. Then there is the liability of adding a 4 cylinder to a line of carbs that have never had a 4 cylinder motor. The V6's and V8's are known sellers, and the I-4's will have to be subsidized through then. Expect the V6 and V8 costs to increase in order to pay for the I-4's debut.

The cheapest way to make the Camaro is to make one car with no options. Want a cheap Camaro? Every single Camaro is a black 2SS with a manual transmission. Prices would fall, or GM could sell them for the same price but at a much higher margin. This is why Ford initially only made black cars - just the availability of the options costs money because you have all that R&D into something that may or may not even sell.
I see your point, and I realize it already, but your original comment seemed to imply that they would be designing a new chassis for this car, which isn't true.

I simply pointed out, that since they are using an existing platform, a huge chunk of the homework is already done. Will they have to make tweaks? Of course, as they will for the V6 and the V8 assuming they want to use to use a different wheelbase that is not the same as the ATS or CTS.

I don't see anything wrong with adding a turbo 4 into the mix.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:33 PM   #64
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Its too bad this fun thread is going to likely turn into another "but I don't want no 4 cylinder in my muscle car" thread.

If you guys take the time to read the GMI thread, there is some juicy stuff in there.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:35 PM   #65
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I'll take a 4 cylinder.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:35 PM   #66
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While I agree 4 cylinder doesnt scream Camaro or mustang to me, if it helps GM and Ford build a more bad ass V-8 pony car I am all for it. and besides, if you don't like it, don't buy it!
i wont be buying it but, my problem is i dont want any one to buy it. i dont want to walk down the street and listen to a fart can muffler aka pissed off lawn mower sound out of a classic american muscle car. it is just un-american. i respect all cars even if i dont like them. but a 4 cylinder in a Camaro is just wrong.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:38 PM   #67
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i wont be buying it but, my problem is i dont want any one to buy it. i dont want to walk down the street and listen to a fart can muffler aka pissed off lawn mower sound out of a classic american muscle car. it is just un-american. i respect all cars even if i dont like them. but a 4 cylinder in a Camaro is just wrong.
It wouldn't be the first time.

The difference is GM's new turbo 4s are pretty damn good.
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Old 06-23-2014, 03:40 PM   #68
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Its too bad this fun thread is going to likely turn into another "but I don't want no 4 cylinder in my muscle car" thread.

If you guys take the time to read the GMI thread, there is some juicy stuff in there.
Even though there are v8 options out there with it... It really takes away the soul of the car hearing a 4 cyl motor in an iconic muscle car. I do not have a problem with GM making a 4 cyl turbo sports car....just don't call it a Camaro.

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Old 06-23-2014, 04:08 PM   #69
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Bizarre Fantasy, based on existing GM parts and tech -

Camaro Ecotec, Area 51 Special Edition.

Color - Gloss black with flat black and red accents. Ghost Shark fender art from SR-71.

Dual 210HP ELR traction motors, front+back.
Nose contains switchable E85 turbo 4 with 270hp on gasoline.
16kwh traction battery.

Cost: $65k.
Seating: 4
Mileage: >100eMPG, or 30 gas MPG.
Electric-Only Range: 40mi.
Gas range: 300mi.
Weight: 3900lb
Performance: Top Speed - 190mph. 1/4mi - 12.50@108mph, 12.0@125mph E85 TurboMode.
HP: Eco - 210HP, Sport - 420HP, Competition - 690HP (60 seconds), TurboMode(E85) - 750HP.
Transmission: None.
Drive: AWD, all wheel regen.
Skidpan: >1.01g
Braking: >1.4g.

The CG would be lower than any existing performance GM product. The weight balance would be 50/50.

The drive system would work thus:

In Eco mode, either electric or gas powers just the front wheels.
Sport mode permits both electric motors to operate in AWD for 420HP.
Competition mode allows both electric motors to run, and the i4 to operate direct drive at 15psi boost on gasoline once road speed allows 2000rpm.
TurboMode requires E85 and boost levels increase to 25psi.

The additional weight comes from the battery and second electric motor.

Think of this as a V8 Camaro with a permanent nitrous bottle that is refilled automatically each night.

It will probably kill a GT-R at the dragstrip, but have a lower CG and all the goodness that comes with it.

But, you can also use it as an economy commuter if you wish. A driver who puts 12,000 miles a year on their car will use little if any gasoline.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:08 PM   #70
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When you say Turbo 4, do you think it will be the Twin out of the ATS?
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:15 PM   #71
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wait i thought they said there will NOT have a 4cylinder turbo...
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halo8hkk View Post
i wont be buying it but, my problem is i dont want any one to buy it. i dont want to walk down the street and listen to a fart can muffler aka pissed off lawn mower sound out of a classic american muscle car. it is just un-american. i respect all cars even if i dont like them. but a 4 cylinder in a Camaro is just wrong.
Well reality is, unless you are subsidizing GM to not make them or paying consumers to not buy them, then you really won't get what you want. There are good sounding 4 bangers out there, and most of the turbo 4s GM make come with pretty quite exhaust. So, it would be individual consumers that would be putting "fart cans" on them.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #73
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An LT4 in a new ZL1 and I might be trading mine in. All depends on the interior room compared to the current car.
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:49 PM   #74
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I'm surprised at everyone hating on the 4-cylinder here...I mean, did you really think that GM wasn't going to add one for the 6th gen? Ford did it and GM has to respond...if they introduce a line-up with only the V6 and V8, then C&D, MT, and other outlets would jump all over GM for not having a more fuel-economic engine as an option. And it also allows for more high-end power in the Camaro, since it will raise the average MPG for the Camaro with the impending CAFE regulations. And so what if GM is adding it as an option? It's not like they're forcing everyone to buy a 4-cylinder...

We have enough in-fighting on this forum between the V8 and V6 crews, I'd really not like to see it get worse with the I4 crew coming in.

Onto other topics:

Someone mentioned the order of the engines before; I don't know if that necessarily has any correlation to their power. I just read them as increasing in number of cylinders/displacement: I4, V6, V8, SCV8. I wouldn't read into it too much as there's a chance Chevy will go the same route as Ford. We'll wait and see.

My big thing from this is that the freakin' LT4 is apparently in the 2016 line-up! I was expecting the LT1 SS to be top-dog for a year before introducing a ZL1 successor. Now we get the chance to see a 650 HP, 650 lb-ft monster of a Camaro!
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:58 PM   #75
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My big thing from this is that the freakin' LT4 is apparently in the 2016 line-up! I was expecting the LT1 SS to be top-dog for a year before introducing a ZL1 successor. Now we get the chance to see a 650 HP, 650 lb-ft monster of a Camaro!
I've heard of a new ctsv in the making. I don't know what v8 they are using for it..but I'd expect the zl1 would use that motor and not be exactly the same as the z06 motor....unless the V is the same as the z06 motor.


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