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Old 02-24-2014, 08:05 PM   #18
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Sorry, I can't say anymore, people could lose their jobs.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:50 AM   #19
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...and previous credible testimony has told a sad tale of such outcomes. But, we have seen blowhards and tale tellers around here more often than not saying they are a Sage and know this or that more often than guys who got canned for leaking info. That's well known within the industry, and runs deeper than you think. Loose lips sink ships. It's a slippery slope. But we well know the risks and understand the underlying issue you refer to.
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Old 03-09-2014, 02:06 PM   #20
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We'll see....fast no doubt...fun no doubt...but the all most important aspect is the look. That's what captures Camaro enthusiasts, outside brand perspective buyers, and first timers the most. Does it have the look? Time will tell....
I dont think the look is the most important feature at all....
I buy it because it has hand me down corvette drivetrains for a fraction of cost.

So handme down drivetrain is a gimme...what i want is some weight reduction. Which is being done.

So i guess that means sold? Here chevy take my money. Unless the c7z flappy paddle is worth it. Then take more money.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:44 PM   #21
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I dont think the look is the most important feature at all....
I buy it because it has hand me down corvette drivetrains for a fraction of cost.

So handme down drivetrain is a gimme...what i want is some weight reduction. Which is being done.

So i guess that means sold? Here chevy take my money. Unless the c7z flappy paddle is worth it. Then take more money.
It has got to look good. Period.

If most people don't like it...and I mean truely don't like it (not that initial hate that everyone has when something changes and then they get over it) and if it doesn't stir some excitement in our souls....it will not sell like the 5th gen.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:53 PM   #22
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I would have to guess that the car is at least 98% finialized at this point.
When you consider all the design and work that goes into creating the assembly line itself and all the processes involved, it has to take at least a year just to get the new assembly line process installed and tested, and they can't do that unless the car is pretty much finialized.
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:40 PM   #23
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Expect Cadillac hand-me-downs before the Corvette ones. This will be a VERY GOOD THING !
EXCITEMENT TIME !
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:46 PM   #24
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So are you saying you have inside information that the design is final and the only thing they are still working on are the light lenses?
Rhetorical. They probably didn't put ANYTHING in concrete, either.
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:21 PM   #25
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After giving it considerable thought as well as putting in time on concept car designs in an attempt to provide constructive ideas for the Camaro, I've reached the conclusion that one of two things are either going to happen, or need to happen.

In order to be successful at changing the Camaro, due to the extreme sensitivity of the Camaro crowd, for the 6th gen GM is probably going to "upgrade" the 5th gen slightly so that overall it looks "new" but is still pretty close to the 5th gen. The Camaro crowd is likely to throw up and pass out on the floor because some features have changed and start playing the OMG IT LOOKS LIKE!!! (name the car from the past) game, but overall it will still look familiar enough that it will survive. The 7th gen is another matter altogether.

There are really only 2 possible directions for GM to go here. Because the Camaro crowd is so sensitive to change, GM has to either make very small incremental changes over time so people don't freak-out, or just go all-out and change the car completely so it looks nothing like the past. As they've already seen from the 2014 refresh, doing small incremental changes doesn't avoid the freak-out. If they go all-out and do something completely different people would still blow chunks and pass out on the floor because 'IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A CAMARO!!! (from the past) but it's the only way to wean people off the retro look. And honestly, as much as I love the looks of the 5th gen and some of the cars from the past, it's time to step into the future. And by future I mean one where we control our cars; not sit in them as passengers staring at our phones while "the system" moves us around like cattle in a cattle yard. No "driverless" concept cars. I think it is probably too late for GM to go radical with the 6th gen, but the 7th gen is the one in my opinion they should use to make this change happen.

It's like removing old bandaids. Remember what that was like? The worst way was to pull on it slowly and try to gradually peel it off. That was the most painful and took the longest. The best way was to yank it off suddenly. It still stung but only briefly... and you lived. (That was a VERY IMPORTANT POINT to kids).

I have a feeling the reason why we aren't seeing anything yet on the 6th gen is they are still struggling with the appearance. The 5th gen is such a tough act to follow that it's an almost impossible task to "evolve" it. I honestly believe they would be wise to just leave the past behind and start with a completely new design. It would give them the most freedom including using entirely new materials and construction techniques. It would be risky but I believe it would be less risky than a gradual "improvement" that causes the "I'll stick with the old 5th gen" reaction because it isn't as good at capturing the retro feel as the 5th gen is. That's the standard they have to reach with the 6th gen IF they decide to make it a retro evolutionary design. A complete break from the past frees them from that problem and gives them the freedom to wow us with something entirely fresh and new. Or at least fresh and new for a Camaro.

Regardless of over-the-top artist's sketches, there's a reality that comes into play when creating a car. Just like Camaros from the past, a new Camaro is still going to have 4 wheels, 4 seats, needs wide doors for access to the rear seats, an engine up front that requires a radiator and cooling systems, a gas tank, and must meet crash, safety and roll-over regulations. Oh and don't forget getting great gas mileage! The idea that they can design a car with those requirements that doesn't look like anything ever seen before is unrealistic. Cars have been around for too long and there's been too many designs done by designers all over the world for people to expect something truly new that doesn't have some kind of similarity to something from the past. That doesn't mean they can't design a new car, just that people need to have realistic expectations and not beat up the designers if there are elements on it that may have a similarity to a previous design. Unless we can now make anti-gravity hover cars that don't need wheels or gasoline, there are going to be some elements that are similar to past elements. As long as people have realistic expectations that's perfectly okay.

We shall see but I'm hoping they have the courage to break from the past and step into the future.
Doc, I think through your experimentation and feedback, you discovered something that the Camaro team struggles with on a daily basis: Design is everything to this car.

It's the reason it has succeeded in the marketplace...it's the reason everyone recognizes it on the road...And design is the reason they have to be VERY VERY careful in bringing the car into the next generation.

The Camaro has had a very clear personality through the years, though...and people clearly respond to certain proportions and lines better than others on a performance car.

I, personally, don't see anything "retro" about the current car. I know people will point to things like the side gills and gauges...but I don't see anything more than a family resemblance...retro is way too strong a word, imo. I believe they should follow the patterns of Aston Martin and Corvette....slow, intentional, well thought-out design evolution.

Nevertheless - my thoughts are part of what makes this so difficult to come up with a "solution" to the problem of the 6th gen design.

For what it's worth - the same people that brought us the 14 refresh and the 14 Stingray are working on the new Camaro. I'm not at all worried for the future.
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Doc, I think through your experimentation and feedback, you discovered something that the Camaro team struggles with on a daily basis: Design is everything to this car.

It's the reason it has succeeded in the marketplace...it's the reason everyone recognizes it on the road...And design is the reason they have to be VERY VERY careful in bringing the car into the next generation.

The Camaro has had a very clear personality through the years, though...and people clearly respond to certain proportions and lines better than others on a performance car.

I, personally, don't see anything "retro" about the current car. I know people will point to things like the side gills and gauges...but I don't see anything more than a family resemblance...retro is way too strong a word, imo. I believe they should follow the patterns of Aston Martin and Corvette....slow, intentional, well thought-out design evolution.

Nevertheless - my thoughts are part of what makes this so difficult to come up with a "solution" to the problem of the 6th gen design.

For what it's worth - the same people that brought us the 14 refresh and the 14 Stingray are working on the new Camaro. I'm not at all worried for the future.


However I do believe the Corvette should be forward in design. That was the way it was till the C5. Thankfully they're back on track with the C7.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:32 AM   #27
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Camaro will follow suit with a design approach such as the C7 Vette that breaks new ground, but also follows styling cues incorporaated from the previous model.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:10 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
...and previous credible testimony has told a sad tale of such outcomes. But, we have seen blowhards and tale tellers around here more often than not saying they are a Sage and know this or that more often than guys who got canned for leaking info. That's well known within the industry, and runs deeper than you think. Loose lips sink ships. It's a slippery slope. But we well know the risks and understand the underlying issue you refer to.
My old account was captain Sam

I was the first to say the camaro had an ls3
I saw it in the bay, I'm an ___________

Either way, I will say, in 2016, you fellas won't be disappointed

It's sleeker and more aggressive
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Doc, I think through your experimentation and feedback, you discovered something that the Camaro team struggles with on a daily basis: Design is everything to this car.

It's the reason it has succeeded in the marketplace...it's the reason everyone recognizes it on the road...And design is the reason they have to be VERY VERY careful in bringing the car into the next generation.

The Camaro has had a very clear personality through the years, though...and people clearly respond to certain proportions and lines better than others on a performance car.

I, personally, don't see anything "retro" about the current car. I know people will point to things like the side gills and gauges...but I don't see anything more than a family resemblance...retro is way too strong a word, imo. I believe they should follow the patterns of Aston Martin and Corvette....slow, intentional, well thought-out design evolution.

Nevertheless - my thoughts are part of what makes this so difficult to come up with a "solution" to the problem of the 6th gen design.

For what it's worth - the same people that brought us the 14 refresh and the 14 Stingray are working on the new Camaro. I'm not at all worried for the future.
Yeah I have to agree. That seemed to be THE number 1 issue with any design I did. I started out putting effort into the driver experience; increasing visibility everywhere I could. I put a LOT of time into thinking through details and explained all that in my write-ups. None of that seemed to matter. People pretty much focused completely on the looks and didn't seem to really care that much about driver visibility or any of the other many things I was working into my designs. I know GM people were looking at those threads so I'm positive they picked up on that... looks are everything with this car. If nothing else hopefully my concept threads helped clarify what the most important element is to a Camaro. Basically; it's looks that matter the most.

I see in another thread from the main page that Edmunds is stating the 6th gen is an evolutionary design which is pretty much what I figured they'd do. The looks of the 5th gen was such a huge success there's really no reason at this point to abandon that styling. With a sleeker, more refined version of that (probably a lot like that huge graphic on the wall of the design studio from a magazine article on the clay model for the Stingray) it could still be an exciting and successful car.

The thing is though...just doing an evolution is only going to go so far unless you plan on doing like Porsche did with the 911 and keeping a basic style forever. They've managed to get away with doing that for the past 50 years but I think after the 6th gen, GM should break out of the mold with the 7th gen and solidly move into the future.

Using the new glasses and amorphous metals like Liquidmetal which can be used with 3D printing, they could make the 7th gen like nothing else we've seen before. And these new technologies are easier to work with, much faster to produce and incredibly strong. Liquidmetal for example is twice as strong as titanium, lighter than aluminum and highly corrosion resistant. It can be used in an injection molding process as well as 3D printing. These new technologies are extremely light weight so the 7th gen could quite possibly be around 3,000 lbs with a Liquidmetal chassis and body panels. And it can be PRINTED. Having the computer print the chassis and body would enable them to do things that couldn't be done by human hands otherwise. All these new technologies are here now; GM should really look into breaking from the old ways of the past and moving into the future. The 7th gen Camaro would be the perfect showcase to do that with.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:34 AM   #30
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My old account was captain Sam

I was the first to say the camaro had an ls3
I saw it in the bay, I'm an ___________

Either way, I will say, in 2016, you fellas won't be disappointed

It's sleeker and more aggressive
....well, I hope so,...but, I got a hook with Funk and Wagnalls where Carnac lets me see the letter after he gets it off of the back porch from inside the mayonaise jar...just sayin'
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:30 AM   #31
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I like that 3d printing was brought up. It is an incredible technology that can really help unlock the creative process. I cannot wait for the basic printers to become more affordable.

G6 is going to be exciting. Chevy has had a number of years measuring the pulse of the public in regards to G5. It has been a successful vehicle and I am sure they have learned a lot from it. It would take a huge fumble for them to misstep on the next gen.

I look for info everyday and envy those who have more behind the scenes access. However, I really hope that no one risks their employment. We'll see it soon enough and it will be awesome.
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