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Old 11-22-2013, 02:03 PM   #15
meissen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
This.

I hate it when cars get revealed and then you realize they won't be on the dealer lots for a year or more. They should get revealed as close to release as possible.
A year is no big deal. 5th gen concept was 2006 and first orders weren't being delivered until 2008. But I'm sure they won't wait that long again, they'll time it to be much closer together.
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Old 11-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #16
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2014 Detroit Auto Show (Naias)?

I would think design of the 6th generation should be complete by now. We should be seeing test mules and or at least "concept vehicle" appearances at auto shows in 2014.

Any word of an appearance at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS) in January, or is that too early?

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Old 11-23-2013, 01:35 PM   #17
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No. Let them take their time. It gives GM enough time to button up some last minute details to ensure that the 6th gen is a success. GM has to remember that the camaro has its own identity, so they should resist the temptation of following any trend the mustang may take. Thus far, I'm not sold on the current trend of the half fastback rake on the c-pillars that seems to be popular (corvette, 2015 mustang sneek peek, etc.). I am hoping that the 6th gen will be at least as distinctive and successful as the 5th gen has been.
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:53 PM   #18
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No, it wouldn't. They shouldn't show ANYTHING. In fact the test mules should have generic no-particular-style body panels specifically for the purpose of just testing everything underneath the body panels. Keep the body style under tight wraps until the car is within 90 days of being in production and for sale on the street.

And PLEASE GM pay somebody to take ACCURATE photos of what the car colors actually look like so the build-your-car website is correct. In fact take 3 color sample photos; one in the day in sunlight, one indoors under indoor lighting, and one at night under street lights. Show all 3 so colors don't get short-changed and discontinued (ABM) because of a web image that isn't even close to the way it really looks.

Avoid gimmicky and trendy; you don't lead by following trends. You lead by creating them. Instead of spending millions and millions trying to squeeze 1 or 2 mpg out of the engine and emissions systems, spend a good chunk of that money on re-engineering all the unsprung and unsprung rotating mass objects on the car. Improve the efficiency of the drivetrain. Not only will you find those extra mpg you were looking for, you'll also find speed and performance without having to add 1 extra horsepower. And don't focus on horsepower anyways; that's top-end pedal-to-the-metal flat-out stuff that you can't even use on the street. Focus on torque. You'll feel and use that every single time you accelerate.

Removing 200 lbs of static weight out of the car is nice but wouldn't make as big a difference in the feel of the car as people think it would. Remove half that; just 100 lbs of unsprung and unsprung rotating weight out and believe me, you'd notice the difference immediately. By pouring R & D money into that one critical area, GM could realize across-the-board gains in performance and mpg for every vehicle they produce without having to do a single thing to their engines.

Keep the next gen Camaro under wraps until the last minute. Make it exciting and choose exciting colors to match so when you do finally unveil everything; the excitement will carry through to sales because people will be able to order and get one within no more than 90 days at the most. None of this "Isn't this exciting? Oh, you can't order one until next year...maybe" jazz.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:55 PM   #19
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In any case, they'll probably be running ATS Coupe mules, not Camaros, for 6th gen development. There's a good chance we'll never even know it's a Camaro underneath there depending on how similar the two cars are.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:11 AM   #20
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what ever GM has been doing in the past has apparently worked.. so keep doing it!
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:02 PM   #21
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what ever GM has been doing in the past has apparently worked.. so keep doing it!
..correction...in the recent past.... Your statement pretty much sums it up. We are marching to our own drum.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:18 PM   #22
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I think our closest glimpse of what we can expect from the 6th gen might be the ats coupe
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:35 PM   #23
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I think our closest glimpse of what we can expect from the 6th gen might be the ats coupe
I just had an ATS Sedan 2.0L Turbo AWD for a week. I know everyone's cheering Al O saying that there won't be a 4 banger in the 6th gen (and as much as I respect Al, I really really really doubt there won't be a 2.0L Turbo in the 6th gen...), but everyone who drove the car couldn't believe it was "only" a turbo 4 banger in there - everyone was swearing up and down it had to be atleast the LFX v6. It takes off real strong like a rocket, and it's VERY nimble.

I know when the 5th gen was pre-production they were saying to look at the Cadillac CTS to see what to expect for the 5th gen... And now that we're getting close to the 6th gen, we're seeing history repeat - only this time we're looking at the Cadillac ATS for clues (which is why I'm thinking there's going to be a 2.0L Turbo in the 6th gen).
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:32 AM   #24
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subscribed.............love reading all the speculations.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by meissen View Post
I just had an ATS Sedan 2.0L Turbo AWD for a week. I know everyone's cheering Al O saying that there won't be a 4 banger in the 6th gen (and as much as I respect Al, I really really really doubt there won't be a 2.0L Turbo in the 6th gen...), but everyone who drove the car couldn't believe it was "only" a turbo 4 banger in there - everyone was swearing up and down it had to be atleast the LFX v6. It takes off real strong like a rocket, and it's VERY nimble.

I know when the 5th gen was pre-production they were saying to look at the Cadillac CTS to see what to expect for the 5th gen... And now that we're getting close to the 6th gen, we're seeing history repeat - only this time we're looking at the Cadillac ATS for clues (which is why I'm thinking there's going to be a 2.0L Turbo in the 6th gen).
Just cause it's a good engine doesn't mean we'll see it in the sixth gen. The LGX could be even better and cheaper to produce. That other thread is confusing to the point where I don't know if Al O said no four cylinder or not. If he did say we aren't getting it, I would think we could take that to the bank.
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Old 11-30-2013, 09:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
No, it wouldn't. They shouldn't show ANYTHING. In fact the test mules should have generic no-particular-style body panels specifically for the purpose of just testing everything underneath the body panels. Keep the body style under tight wraps until the car is within 90 days of being in production and for sale on the street.

And PLEASE GM pay somebody to take ACCURATE photos of what the car colors actually look like so the build-your-car website is correct. In fact take 3 color sample photos; one in the day in sunlight, one indoors under indoor lighting, and one at night under street lights. Show all 3 so colors don't get short-changed and discontinued (ABM) because of a web image that isn't even close to the way it really looks.

Avoid gimmicky and trendy; you don't lead by following trends. You lead by creating them. Instead of spending millions and millions trying to squeeze 1 or 2 mpg out of the engine and emissions systems, spend a good chunk of that money on re-engineering all the unsprung and unsprung rotating mass objects on the car. Improve the efficiency of the drivetrain. Not only will you find those extra mpg you were looking for, you'll also find speed and performance without having to add 1 extra horsepower. And don't focus on horsepower anyways; that's top-end pedal-to-the-metal flat-out stuff that you can't even use on the street. Focus on torque. You'll feel and use that every single time you accelerate.

Removing 200 lbs of static weight out of the car is nice but wouldn't make as big a difference in the feel of the car as people think it would. Remove half that; just 100 lbs of unsprung and unsprung rotating weight out and believe me, you'd notice the difference immediately. By pouring R & D money into that one critical area, GM could realize across-the-board gains in performance and mpg for every vehicle they produce without having to do a single thing to their engines.

Keep the next gen Camaro under wraps until the last minute. Make it exciting and choose exciting colors to match so when you do finally unveil everything; the excitement will carry through to sales because people will be able to order and get one within no more than 90 days at the most. None of this "Isn't this exciting? Oh, you can't order one until next year...maybe" jazz.
Removing 200 pounds of static weight would be noticeable by most folks on a track. Every day, it's doubtful. I actually enjoy the feel of our S4 compared to Mrs. Number 3's ATS and some of that is simply the rigidity and solid feeling of the Audi compared to the Cadillac. And the Audi weighs in about 300 pounds or so heavier.

I would like some clarity on how you think 100 pounds of wheel/tire/rotor(rotating unsprung mass) and caliper/lower control arm (unsprung mass) is going to save significant fuel. Yes it's directionally correct and in fact would do as much for wheel control by the chassis as anything else.

FE is rolling resistance, aerodynamics and powertrain.

If you have data, I wouldn't mind seeing it. What you suggest is interesting, I just think it would be so small as to not matter.

Besides, pulling 100 pounds out of the wheel/tire/rotor would be huge. I think the Z/28 with carbon ceramic brakes and 19" wheels didn't come close to the 100 pounds. That will be a very hard 100 pounds to get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
In any case, they'll probably be running ATS Coupe mules, not Camaros, for 6th gen development. There's a good chance we'll never even know it's a Camaro underneath there depending on how similar the two cars are.
Mules will have the production intent architecture underneath. That means underbody, chassis and powertrain must be correct. You are correct, they've put some pretty strange stuff on top of those architectures i.e. recent photos of Chevy Caprice on top of what is rumored at least to be Omega.

Keep in mind, if the NG Camaro doesn't have a 4 cylinder then you can kiss outselling the Mustang goodbye. This suggests that Ford is 1) going global as 2.0 is a main tax threshold in most other countries 2) going after the total coupe market as I've suggested Chevy should do, meaning taking sales not just from Camaro, but also Nissan and Honda and 3) has a CAFE miracle up their sleeve. Not sure how you get to where the Camaro has to be for CAFE without a 4 cylinder. And please don't suggest that GM can get 6 MPG out of the current 3.6L. It's just not there. Look at the same 3.6L in the ATS. Rated at 28 in a much lighter car, 2 less than the Camaro.

I'm very skeptical GM would even want to pass up on a 4 cylinder solution unless they want to watch Mustang sales soar and not have anything to compete with.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:23 AM   #27
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I just hope that GM doesnt screw up the 6th gen
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
Just cause it's a good engine doesn't mean we'll see it in the sixth gen. The LGX could be even better and cheaper to produce. That other thread is confusing to the point where I don't know if Al O said no four cylinder or not. If he did say we aren't getting it, I would think we could take that to the bank.
No, just because it's a good engine doesn't mean it will go into the 6th gen Camaro. But typically you'll see the same engine options shared among vehicles with the same architecture. So whatever the ATS has for engine options, it'd be really easy to see those same engine options come into the 6th gen Camaro.
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