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Old 11-21-2013, 09:47 AM   #29
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WINNING!

Al for President!
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:00 AM   #30
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the 4cyl ecoboost going in the new mustang has a hp rating higher than both the current V6 Mustang and Camaro offerings. They are not using a 2.3L Turbo, but a 2.5L Turbo 4, at around 320-330hp, combine this with the rumored 250-400lb weight loss of the Mustang in the S550 chassis, and it will be a potent base car.

So Al's statement of fighting for every HP he can, isn't really valid. Unless he intends to use the 4.2L V6 TT as the base Camaro engine for 6th gen, which I somewhat doubt.

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If its not up to the chief engineer, then who gets to decide?
GM Accountants.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:05 AM   #31
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Wait a minute....

I'm not going to confirm or deny anything - BUT - this thread is very disturbing to me - because once again - someone at GM says something and people 'extrapolate' (....I've been burned so much that I need to wear a flame suit anytime I travel.....) Please show me where in the article that Al says "no 4 cylinder engine" -- he MAY have said that he's fighting for every single horsepower - and I do know that's true........

Someone mentioned CAFE - CAFE law provides a 54.6 MPG average by the mid 2020s........that average includes LD Silverado and SUVs......think about that for a minute.......

I don't think ANYTHING is off the table as we move forward.

For those who I've talked to personally - I've given my OPINION that V8s will be around for a while - BUT -- because of CAFE - the cost of the V8 is going to become much more expensive...... You can still get blistering performance, but it MAY NOT be always from a V8 engine.

So unless you have a direct quote from Al - and I do not believe anyone does -- take this thread with a grain of salt.

Let's not turn this into a "Panic du Jour"...........
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:07 AM   #32
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Reduce the weight of the vehicle, the Turbo 4 becomes viable, and can even provide a HP bump over the NA V6. Which is exactly what Ford did. Reduce weight, and increase HP.

There's nothing wrong with "following" Ford in this formula, as it is common sense, nothing ground breaking.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:08 AM   #33
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320HP + out of a 4 cyc turbo.. That's impresive.. Dec 5th.. tic toc tic toc.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:09 AM   #34
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320HP + out of a 4 cyc turbo.. That's impresive.. Dec 5th.. tic toc tic toc.
Even if the information isn't accurate and they only muster 270-300hp, with the weight difference on the new chassis, it's still going to be faster than the current V6 Mustang.

What we know is, the Focus ST uses a 2.0L Turbo at 250hp, Ford stated the Mustang will have a larger/more powerful 4cyl ecoboost motor.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:13 AM   #35
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something else to consider:

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps there ARE some non-traditional buyers who would buy a Mustang with a 4 cylinder?

Not everyone wants a 400+ horsepower V8 - or, for that matter, a 300+ hp V6?

As a product planner - one needs to consider this........
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:16 AM   #36
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something else to consider:

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps there ARE some non-traditional buyers who would buy a Mustang with a 4 cylinder?

Not everyone wants a 400+ horsepower V8 - or, for that matter, a 300+ hp V6?

As a product planner - one needs to consider this........
Or the fact Ford is going to sell the Mustang in Europe and Asia for the first time with this generation new on dealer lots.

4cyl Turbo is the logical step for them to offer this engine. Ford has their eyes set on the BMW 4 Series and Audi 5 Series with the new Mustang to fight it out with in Europe, as well as compete with the Camaro here and forgive me for saying this but with it's confirmed weight loss, new suspension setup and brakes, perhaps even some of the Corvettes as well.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #37
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Isn't the L99 Camaro a 4 Cylinder at least part of the time?
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:56 AM   #38
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Well said
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:22 AM   #39
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Great leadership by Oppenheiser. The Camaro is a distinct performance car product. Putting a 4 cyl in a BMW 6 series makes no sense either. GM can build another rear drive product that uses a 4 cyl, but don't call it a Camaro.

I think the Mustang Ecoboost 4 cyl will have the same outcome as the Ecoboost V-6 in trucks: same or worse real world mpg at the cost of more complexity and reliability.

This CAFE thing is such a damn candy a$$ way of managing demand by controlling the supply of vehicles. Just let the cost of fuel rise and let consumers make their choices. Australia has double the fuel costs we have but there are still plenty of V-8s. CAFE reminds me of the 55 mph speed limit.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:33 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Seer View Post
the 4cyl ecoboost going in the new mustang has a hp rating higher than both the current V6 Mustang and Camaro offerings. They are not using a 2.3L Turbo, but a 2.5L Turbo 4, at around 320-330hp, combine this with the rumored 250-400lb weight loss of the Mustang in the S550 chassis, and it will be a potent base car.
...


Where'd you see this? 2.0 is currently the larger of their 4 cylinder turbo options (here in the U.S.) The 2.3 is a new engine (at least for us) and is going into the new Lincoln MKC crossover first with 270HP and 300TQ. It is then expected to be used in the Mustang with a more aggressive tune. Probably in the realm of 290+ HP and 320+ TQ

I really don't see Ford using 2.0, 2.3, and a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder turbo engines...it seems a bit overkill but if you've got some proof I'd be curious to see it.

Mustang6g follows this stuff pretty dang closely, and I see no mention of a 2.5 there.


Anyways...if GM uses an N/A V6 versus a T4 from Ford, the V6 will always be at somewhat of a TQ disadvantage, but I'm expecting at least 330 or more HP (hopefully 340 or more like the Hyndai Genesis coupe) so the V6 shouldn't be at a HP disadvantage. It just won't be as quick off the line if this is the case.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:46 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
something else to consider:

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps there ARE some non-traditional buyers who would buy a Mustang with a 4 cylinder?

Not everyone wants a 400+ horsepower V8 - or, for that matter, a 300+ hp V6?

As a product planner - one needs to consider this........
Of course it has occured to us...or at least some of us. But if you take a quick look at the HUGE thread in this section titled "Why would anyone want a 4 cyc 2016 Camaro?" you'll see there are a bunch of people that either still 1) have no clue that you can get good power from a turbo 4 cylinder... 2) Believe a 4 cylinder of any type has no place in a Camaro 3) Wouldn't buy a 4 cylinder car even if it ran 9s in the quarter mile and got 1000MPG.

I'll even admit I'd likely buy a V6 (just because I'm partial to this particular engine) over a compariable turbo 4. Now if the T4 was much faster...well then that could change my mind. But I see the potential of a powerful T4 engine in a car with a relatively light Alpha based chasis. It would make for a heck of a good car. If GM doesn't want to put one in a Camaro, I can see a market for a smaller light coupe with a powerful turbo 4 engine....something that would equal the BRZ/FRS in handling but pull away from it in the straights.

Quote:
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Or the fact Ford is going to sell the Mustang in Europe and Asia for the first time with this generation new on dealer lots.

4cyl Turbo is the logical step for them to offer this engine. Ford has their eyes set on the BMW 4 Series and Audi 5 Series with the new Mustang to fight it out with in Europe, as well as compete with the Camaro here and forgive me for saying this but with it's confirmed weight loss, new suspension setup and brakes, perhaps even some of the Corvettes as well.
Going global is a huge reason for a 4 cylinder in the Mustang. In some countries, the Mustang can cost WAYYYYYYY higher just for the simple fact it has a V8. Even a V6 gets absurdly expensive. But throw a 4 cylinder in there and it starts to become within reach of a lot more people.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:46 AM   #42
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Never sell your V8 my friends...
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