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Old 11-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
The public may not know any details about the 6th Gen yet but, believe me, Al and company are well into 6th Gen development. If he is making public statements about how he won't allow a 4 cylinder into the 6th Gen I would wager that the drive train decisions have already been locked in and he is saying everything he can without getting himself into trouble.
Oh I agree 100% that 6th gen development is WELL underway...I'm sure they have a good lock on a general design at this point as well as what will power it.
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Old 11-20-2013, 01:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Last I checked, CAFE didn't doesn't require that V6s be replaces with turbo4's.

Al says that GM doesn't have to follow Ford, and that the Camaro can't get too much smaller & still be a Camaro. Reading between the lines tells me that GM is almost certainly working on a small FRS/BRZ type car, or possibly a little 2 seater like the Sky/Solstice. Either way, its a car that would be 4 cylinder only and be more efficient than a Camaro could hope for.
Well my little 4 banger 170hp Sky got the same mpg as my big 323HP V6.... Small doesn't necessarily mean better mileage.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
Keep in mind the CAFE stands for Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It doesn't mean that every car you make has to meet or exceed it. GM has cars like the Volt, ELR, and all the Eco models pulling the average up so the CAFE standards are hardly a death knell for the V8 at GM. Take notice that the EcoTec 5.3l in the new Silverado makes more power and gets better fuel economy than the Ford EcoBoost V6.
Except nobody buys volts or ELRs. I wish they sold millions of them but I don't want one.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #18
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I was starting to get nervous about there being a 4-cyl in the 6th gen but thought if it was at least a turbo it wouldn't be a complete tragedy. Good to hear it from Al that they're not planning on it though. There's enough people in here that hate on V6 owners without giving them reason to hate even more.

The V6 better be a TT though. I'm thinking I need to go SS this time anyway so I'm just hoping it'll be light and properly powerful.

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Old 11-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
Sales volume doesn't play into the CAFE arithmetic.
I thought that's what the whole thing was based on? Can somebody else chime in on this? Why would the car manufacturers be so worried about CAFE if all they had to do was build a couple hybrids? My understanding is that CAFE is Corporate Average Fuel Economy and that average means the average of cars produced or sold. Not the average of a manufacturers portfolio. If that were the case they could just make 10 different types of Volts and they could sell as many Z/28s as they wanted.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
I thought that's what the whole thing was based on? Can somebody else chime in on this? Why would the car manufacturers be so worried about CAFE if all they had to do was build a couple hybrids? My understanding is that CAFE is Corporate Average Fuel Economy and that average means the average of cars produced or sold. Not the average of a manufacturers portfolio. If that were the case they could just make 10 different types of Volts and they could sell as many Z/28s as they wanted.
I stand corrected. Wrap your noodle around this.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
I stand corrected. Wrap your noodle around this.
I guess this part answers that question.

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Second, because these CAFE requirements are based on size, every car company actually ends up with a different CAFE requirement, depending on the mix and size of cars and trucks that it actually sells. For every model year, each company must calculate the CAFE requirement for all models it markets and then determine the sales-weighted average for its actual mix. Therefore, a company such as General Motors, with its heavy share of large pickups and SUVs, will have a lower CAFE requirement than Suzuki, which primarily produces smallish cars and SUVs.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:28 PM   #22
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Hmmn not sure how I feel about this news. Don't get me wrong I love the Camaro and what it stands for and I love how Al says they aren't following ford which is great. But to me the V6 that I owned never gave me that off the line push and always felt something was missing so that's where a turbo 4 comes in to play with the low rpm tq and get off the line makes it feel fast. But this is just me and how I feel. I guess I am a lil biased cause I have owned a few great turbo cars in my time the first one was a 88 Ford Thunderbird Turbo coupe with the 5speed manual and a 09 Cobalt SS and my current Fiat 500 abarth.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:48 PM   #23
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Al is the man! I didn't think they'd put a 4 banger in the Camaro, but never know with these gov't standards changing so much.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:00 PM   #24
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Except nobody buys volts or ELRs. I wish they sold millions of them but I don't want one.
Except you're completely wrong about Volt sales and ELR isn't even available yet. So...
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #25
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Except you're completely wrong about Volt sales and ELR isn't even available yet. So...
Isn't the ELR intended to be low volume since it's a luxury car? The Volt is doing better than it was but it's not exactly in Camry territory sales wise is it? I'm just saying it's hard to push economy car sales.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
Isn't the ELR intended to be low volume since it's a luxury car? The Volt is doing better than it was but it's not exactly in Camry territory sales wise is it? I'm just saying it's hard to push economy car sales.
...and that's the rub. While our consumers can still have their cake and eat it too car wise about the choice of gasoline powered internal combustion engines , the crush won't occur until the GOV mandates it, or the manufacturers are forced into it. Hybrids and battery opp cars are the future. You know all this better than I Fen. I am just speaking out loud to the others. Look at the development of that technology and it's implementation. It's not a Buick gas engine retro-fitted into a diesel like back in the 80's. Estimates based on current development of North American energy supplies suggest we could be free from importing foreign energy by 2015 at the earliest. The potential exists. Wouldn't that be something! Plus long range batteries for vehicles will reduce in price soon. It's all about what time in history one grew up in and what their expectation is about performance going forward. I'm a hands in the bucket washing the shop floor off with gasoline guy <the best cleaner ever>....but I see the big picture. We have to go to alternative energy sources and reduce the carbon footprint. The Volt is a great car. GM has done alot of foreward thinking into alternative fuel sources.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:22 AM   #27
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Isn't the ELR intended to be low volume since it's a luxury car? The Volt is doing better than it was but it's not exactly in Camry territory sales wise is it? I'm just saying it's hard to push economy car sales.
Nobody's saying it's in Camry territory and nobody's expecting it to be. The car still consistently sells over a thousand units a month. To say nobody's buying it is just flat-out wrong.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:59 AM   #28
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Huh how'd we get to volt.. I test drove one slow seemed to hesitate.. I see the same ones sitting on the lots. 1000 volt sales a month is SS territory right?? Wait now I'm off topic.. I think a 4 cylinder isn't a bad thing.. Had that turbo in the Buick regal worked fine..
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