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Old 09-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #1
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My Design Idea for the 2016 Camaro model

I'm starting a new thread with just the latest updates going forward because the old thread included a lot of discarded ideas and the thread was getting too long.

These are the current drawings of the work in progress.

Here's the Base Model which has the "old" original front:
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept V6.jpg
Views: 4886
Size:  79.1 KB

Here's the V8 model which has a side view of the SS and the 3/4 front of the Z/28; these also have the "old" original front:
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept V8.jpg
Views: 4869
Size:  84.4 KB

Based on the excellent variation suggested by ALLTRBO which is on the left, I made a new front variation on the right:
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept ALTRBO front.jpg
Views: 4838
Size:  53.8 KB

These are the current working versions of the Z/28 and Base V6 with the new front variation:
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept Front rev.jpg
Views: 4834
Size:  83.7 KB

The previous thread is still available for anyone who wants to browse through the history of how we got to this point and the thoughts behind the designs.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310821

I'll be posting any new updates in this thread. I'm currently working on putting these designs into a 3D modeling program so I can create realistic-looking renderings to show what these would look like if they were real, so hopefully I'll have something worth looking at soon.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:12 PM   #2
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Awesome!
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:29 PM   #3
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Have you sent your application in to Mr. Reuss?
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #4
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As if you haven't done enough... any plans for a 3/4 view with the new front?
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:52 PM   #5
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Outstanding If this was the final design we would have to make room in the garage for another generation of Camaro
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:42 PM   #6
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Doc, just a quick mention...
Here's a vid from a live feed about a year ago that I think is applicable to the thread(s). If you haven't seen it, I feel that it's worth a watch...


I'm sure there are many more and better vids on the subject but I found this one after a very brief search. Interesting perspective.
.
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.
.
.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:04 PM   #7
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Well I see you took my thoughts about updating your first post in your old thread and just created a whole new one! lol. Good idea.

As I've stated numerous times before, I really love this concept. I feel like some of the nitty gritty details which could really make it pop are missing, but that's not the point of this journey...at least not yet. To me (and I think Doc might agree) its about finding a good overall potential design that could work for a next generation Camaro. I think if someone were to do a very detailed 3D model painted with light shimmers and shading that shows the curves of what Doc has in his head it would really be something pretty awesome. The is more of a flat 2D like rendering.

Upon first glance you might think "looks very much like the 5th gen". But really...its VERY different, yet retains much of what we love about the 5th gen, and has the Camaro heritage within the design. The belt line is a bit high like the 5th gen, but with the way the window swoops down towards the front, and then juts back up for the hood line, it would make looking down to see thinks like corners on the track...or curbs when simply parking your car much easier than the 5th gen. The almost "shaved" like door handles, the way the sheetmetal at the bottom front of each side door curves inward, which is opposite of the 5th gen which is mostly at the back of each door....it all makes for a very familiar but different design.

The SS or Z/28 version looks absolutely menacing to me, and I love that rear end.

If I had to nit pick I'd say I'd like a little more of something in the "hips" of the car. More flare or curve to them. The line there feels a bit flat to me, but front and rear views are pretty awesome.

In the end, I see this as perfect fit for a slight smaller/lighter Camaro riding on the Alpha platform. I'm sure GM had the 6th gen "basic" design pretty much wrapped up well before now, but I'm betting there are still those "nitty gritty" details to work out. If anything, just want to say I appreciate the work you've done Doc. Keep it up.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Have you sent your application in to Mr. Reuss?
Not yet lol. But maybe after I get this in 3D and you can see it in all it's real glory.... who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
As if you haven't done enough... any plans for a 3/4 view with the new front?
Yes. Probably sooner than later, but I'm finding that creating a car in 3D isn't exactly easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrracing97 View Post
Outstanding If this was the final design we would have to make room in the garage for another generation of Camaro
Wow thank you! I appreciate the feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLTRBO View Post
Doc, just a quick mention...
Here's a vid from a live feed about a year ago that I think is applicable to the thread(s). If you haven't seen it, I feel that it's worth a watch...


I'm sure there are many more and better vids on the subject but I found this one after a very brief search. Interesting perspective.
.
.
.
.
.
That was VERY interesting to watch. It's disgusting to watch somebody draw a nice 3/4 perspective view in like seconds while it took me hours LOL. That was a good video thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Well I see you took my thoughts about updating your first post in your old thread and just created a whole new one! lol. Good idea.

As I've stated numerous times before, I really love this concept. I feel like some of the nitty gritty details which could really make it pop are missing, but that's not the point of this journey...at least not yet. To me (and I think Doc might agree) its about finding a good overall potential design that could work for a next generation Camaro. I think if someone were to do a very detailed 3D model painted with light shimmers and shading that shows the curves of what Doc has in his head it would really be something pretty awesome. The is more of a flat 2D like rendering.

Upon first glance you might think "looks very much like the 5th gen". But really...its VERY different, yet retains much of what we love about the 5th gen, and has the Camaro heritage within the design. The belt line is a bit high like the 5th gen, but with the way the window swoops down towards the front, and then juts back up for the hood line, it would make looking down to see thinks like corners on the track...or curbs when simply parking your car much easier than the 5th gen. The almost "shaved" like door handles, the way the sheetmetal at the bottom front of each side door curves inward, which is opposite of the 5th gen which is mostly at the back of each door....it all makes for a very familiar but different design.

The SS or Z/28 version looks absolutely menacing to me, and I love that rear end.

If I had to nit pick I'd say I'd like a little more of something in the "hips" of the car. More flare or curve to them. The line there feels a bit flat to me, but front and rear views are pretty awesome.

In the end, I see this as perfect fit for a slight smaller/lighter Camaro riding on the Alpha platform. I'm sure GM had the 6th gen "basic" design pretty much wrapped up well before now, but I'm betting there are still those "nitty gritty" details to work out. If anything, just want to say I appreciate the work you've done Doc. Keep it up.
Wow this is a really great start to this new thread. This is so much nicer to read than the reaction to the 2014 refresh lol. So it seems clear we're definitely going in the right direction. Good feedback guys, thanks!
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:26 PM   #9
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(quote from the 'old' thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
The view we've drawn is somewhat misleading because this gives a camera view of the cars that would only look like this if you were laying on your stomach looking forward, so it makes elements look higher than they really are. If you were standing up looking down, these fronts are quite low.
Ahh, therein lies the problem. I knew it 99% but couldn't put my finger on that last 1%, and your post helped it click. I now have a new 'perspective'...
I knew the rear end wouldn't be as high as you drew it from this front view even though I didn't mess with the height, but in reality you wouldn't see it at all. You can't have the rear at the same 'pixel height' as you do from the side view because things appear smaller the further away from them you are. Our perspective as you intended is from about the bottom of the lower grille, and regardless of how far away from it you are (and we aren't all that far), the way it's drawn, the rear end would have to be so large that it'd be something out of... (wait for it... wait for it...) ...an anime cartoon.

For my version of the upper grille, I've been visualizing the location of it in relation to the way the rear is drawn, in other words, viewing the car from roughly roof level. That's about where you'd have to be to see the top of the rear as drawn, depending on how far away you are. From that perspective, as you said, the upper grille will appear lower than if you're viewing it from down low as you intended (even then, the rear will appear much narrower than the front, not as wide as the front is... even if the rear is a bit wider in actual dimension). I've also been seeing the hood and tops of the front fenders as being viewed from this level.

Because if this, I think we're visualizing the upper grille at nearly the same actual height, just drawing it differently. What this also means is that my lower grille design is somewhat skewed based on the fact that I've been seeing that at near-ground level. If veiwed from roof level also, it would have ever-so-slightly more of a "U" shape to it rather than being almost horizontal. Seeing it that way makes sense. I don't have time to do any presentable perspective corrections right now but messing about in PSP, I can see how it 'should' look (and it still looks darn good IMO, heh). I think the same goes for the ride height, it seemed artificially high because my brain was basing it on a slightly higher viewing angle (along with the other aspects) even though I knew that the ground level perspective was viewed from... ground level.

So in summary... For your version, you need to delete the entire rear end from view and lower the whole rear window opening accordingly. I also think your hood and front fenders are sloping down a bit more than you want them to when viewed from this perspective, based on your side-view.
For my version, if actually viewed from roof height, I need to narrow the rear end, slightly "U" everything below the license plate, delete the "ground" line, shade the space between the tires to show that you're actually seeing the ground below the car rather than open space, and draw some mythical line for the horizon well above the car (probably right out of the picture).
Either way can work for either version, of course, but it's one way or the other, not both.

On a related note, I've been failing to mention it (though I've known it), but none of these renderings have an adequate ramp angle for the bottom of the front fascia if they were to go into production. The Z/28 is probably the only exception, as it's obviously an exceptional car and gives way to some practicality for performance. The rest of them need a real-life ramp angle, and of course that requires redesigning some bits (isn't this fun?).

Keep up the good work!
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:28 PM   #10
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(quote from the 'old' thread)


Ahh, therein lies the problem. I knew it 99% but couldn't put my finger on that last 1%, and your post helped it click. I now have a new 'perspective'...
I knew the rear end wouldn't be as high as you drew it from this front view even though I didn't mess with the height, but in reality you wouldn't see it at all. You can't have the rear at the same 'pixel height' as you do from the side view because things appear smaller the further away from them you are. Our perspective as you intended is from about the bottom of the lower grille, and regardless of how far away from it you are (and we aren't all that far), the way it's drawn, the rear end would have to be so large that it'd be something out of... (wait for it... wait for it...) ...an anime cartoon.

For my version of the upper grille, I've been visualizing the location of it in relation to the way the rear is drawn, in other words, viewing the car from roughly roof level. That's about where you'd have to be to see the top of the rear as drawn, depending on how far away you are. From that perspective, as you said, the upper grille will appear lower than if you're viewing it from down low as you intended (even then, the rear will appear much narrower than the front, not as wide as the front is... even if the rear is a bit wider in actual dimension). I've also been seeing the hood and tops of the front fenders as being viewed from this level.

Because if this, I think we're visualizing the upper grille at nearly the same actual height, just drawing it differently. What this also means is that my lower grille design is somewhat skewed based on the fact that I've been seeing that at near-ground level. If veiwed from roof level also, it would have ever-so-slightly more of a "U" shape to it rather than being almost horizontal. Seeing it that way makes sense. I don't have time to do any presentable perspective corrections right now but messing about in PSP, I can see how it 'should' look (and it still looks darn good IMO, heh). I think the same goes for the ride height, it seemed artificially high because my brain was basing it on a slightly higher viewing angle (along with the other aspects) even though I knew that the ground level perspective was viewed from... ground level.

So in summary... For your version, you need to delete the entire rear end from view and lower the whole rear window opening accordingly. I also think your hood and front fenders are sloping down a bit more than you want them to when viewed from this perspective, based on your side-view.
For my version, if actually viewed from roof height, I need to narrow the rear end, slightly "U" everything below the license plate, delete the "ground" line, shade the space between the tires to show that you're actually seeing the ground below the car rather than open space, and draw some mythical line for the horizon well above the car (probably right out of the picture).
Either way can work for either version, of course, but it's one way or the other, not both.

On a related note, I've been failing to mention it (though I've known it), but none of these renderings have an adequate ramp angle for the bottom of the front fascia if they were to go into production. The Z/28 is probably the only exception, as it's obviously an exceptional car and gives way to some practicality for performance. The rest of them need a real-life ramp angle, and of course that requires redesigning some bits (isn't this fun?).

Keep up the good work!
Yes that's the problem with blueprint views; they're only showing dimensions on a flat plane whereas in real life a car never actually looks like that even if you position yourself where the blueprint camera view would be. I'm finding out all kinds of things about this design now that I'm starting to work in 3D space. So far it appears that polygon modeling produces the best results but it's tedious beyond belief. You put dots around the lines of the image, then bridge the dots to create surface polygons. Sounds easy enough but the smoothness of the final result depends on how many dots you use; the more you put in, the smoother the result. So you aren't putting a few dots, you're putting hundreds on each body panel. AND you have to make sure you have equal numbers on the top and bottom so the surface geometry doesn't get weird. AND you have to check the location of each dot in 3 dimensional space so that the vertical, horizontal and depth location is accurate. This means you're checking and moving a dot in 3 different modeling windows (x, y, z) and looking in the perspective window to make sure you got it right. For each dot. Hundreds and hundreds of times.

I keep thinking there has to be an easier way to do this but so far after searching through youtube tutorials none of the other methods I've looked at produced what I would consider professional results. I'm doing more searching though, just in case there's an easier way.

Ah yes... ramp angle. That marble has been rattling around in the back of my mind since I first started these designs and I need to address that before going further; especially since I'm working in 3D.

I've had the time to do a lot of this the last few weeks because I was using up some vacation time I needed to use but that's over now so I'm back to work. As a result I'll probably not be updating this thread as often as I have but that doesn't mean I'm not working on things; just that I have less time to work on them. I wish I could do this all the time as I find it extremely interesting to work on, but that doesn't pay the bills lol.

That being said, here's a shot with the ramp angle adjustment on the front of the Base model on the right, and the Z/28 on the left which doesn't have that adjustment since it has the aero package splitter on the lower front.
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept Ramp.jpg
Views: 4783
Size:  53.5 KB
Besides not having the raised ramp angle on the front, the Z/28 is also lowered so it's ground clearance in the front would be somewhat tricky on the street. Not sure that would be all that realistic for street use. Might have to abandon the lowered aspect and raise it back to the Base model level so the aero front doesn't crunch on driveways, parking lot speed bumps and parking curbs.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:52 PM   #11
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I have a hunch that GM will be going with something more like this as it has similar styling to the upcoming Ford Mustang...

Name:  asuv.jpg
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:44 PM   #12
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I love the direction this is going however I am with KMPrenger about the side of the car. As clean as it is I like the general shape but to me it needs a little excitement. I have been stuck on the vents and never seemed to make them work especially with using MS Paint, yet I couldn't make myself move away from them. Please forgive my amateur job but this is what I was thinking for the side somewhat. I know the shading is probably wrong and it is hard to make a good straight angled line with paint but I took a shot.

I cannot believe the time you spend on this Doc and I am impressed.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:17 PM   #13
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When I first saw this thread I thought "Meh",looks dated like a Camaro before the 5th gen but now it's really coming together nicely and I like it. Hey Doc,I was wondering if you can give us different headlight looks like something like thisName:  2015 camaro.jpg
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:24 PM   #14
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Doc, great job on the renderings. It gets the imagination going!
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:58 AM   #15
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I love the direction this is going however I am with KMPrenger about the side of the car. As clean as it is I like the general shape but to me it needs a little excitement. I have been stuck on the vents and never seemed to make them work especially with using MS Paint, yet I couldn't make myself move away from them. Please forgive my amateur job but this is what I was thinking for the side somewhat. I know the shading is probably wrong and it is hard to make a good straight angled line with paint but I took a shot.

I cannot believe the time you spend on this Doc and I am impressed.
May I simply suggest that the vertical vent on the front fenders are reminiscent of those on the dodge charger.... and starting to lose it's individuality from that one big feature alone. And the rear roof pillars are starting to get a bit too skinny... and look like alot of others on the street. What I would like to see is rear windows that roll down to give the new Camaro a Hardtop vs current sedan feeling. The "extended openness" would be welcome feeling... especially in a smaller platform vehicle.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:01 PM   #16
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May I simply suggest that the vertical vent on the front fenders are reminiscent of those on the dodge charger.... and starting to lose it's individuality from that one big feature alone. And the rear roof pillars are starting to get a bit too skinny... and look like alot of others on the street. What I would like to see is rear windows that roll down to give the new Camaro a Hardtop vs current sedan feeling. The "extended openness" would be welcome feeling... especially in a smaller platform vehicle.
It could also be a rip off of the new corvette...lol. I was trying to stay within Docs basic design of his new Camaro. His car is smaller and extending the window would mean extending the car and more weight I would think. I don't know if this is the reason Doc did this, you would have to ask him.

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Old 09-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #17
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I love all the designs!!

take that California license plate off!! lol other than that I love all of them.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:47 AM   #18
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I love the direction this is going however I am with KMPrenger about the side of the car. As clean as it is I like the general shape but to me it needs a little excitement. I have been stuck on the vents and never seemed to make them work especially with using MS Paint, yet I couldn't make myself move away from them. Please forgive my amateur job but this is what I was thinking for the side somewhat. I know the shading is probably wrong and it is hard to make a good straight angled line with paint but I took a shot.

I cannot believe the time you spend on this Doc and I am impressed.
When you see this in 3D you'll get a better feel for how this body style will look. I spent a fair amount of time playing around with different vent designs and schemes on the side, and after a while I realized all I was doing was cluttering it up for no other reason than to try and put "something" in there. I may still go back to the single vent scoop on the side and ditch the 3 gills; I'll have to see how the side looks in 3D with proper shadows and shading.

Believe it or not, most of the "excitement" of the rear quarter of the car is going to come from the top of the rear deck which is something I simply haven't been able to portray in my 2D drawings. The sides of the car are going to look more like the side of a fighter jet fuselage due to the way the upper rear deck separates into the winglets. I may still be able to increase the curve in the transition from the door to the rear of the car slightly but I have to be careful that I don't make it look too back heavy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-ROD-210 View Post
When I first saw this thread I thought "Meh",looks dated like a Camaro before the 5th gen but now it's really coming together nicely and I like it. Hey Doc,I was wondering if you can give us different headlight looks like something like thisAttachment 558209
I actually tried a design like that, including a single bar and 2 bar. I thought the single bar wasn't too bad but after awhile of looking at it I felt it was more gimmicky than anything else so I went back to round headlights. ALLTRBO's idea led me to the stylized rectangular quad lamps you see now which I really like. They have a more serious and "production car" look to them.

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Doc, great job on the renderings. It gets the imagination going!
Thank you; that's the whole idea.

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Originally Posted by *007 View Post
May I simply suggest that the vertical vent on the front fenders are reminiscent of those on the dodge charger.... and starting to lose it's individuality from that one big feature alone. And the rear roof pillars are starting to get a bit too skinny... and look like alot of others on the street. What I would like to see is rear windows that roll down to give the new Camaro a Hardtop vs current sedan feeling. The "extended openness" would be welcome feeling... especially in a smaller platform vehicle.
One of the main goals I had when designing the cabin was to increase driver visibility. This prompted the lowered front of the side windows, the lower sweep to the front of the car, and the thinner C pillars. I believe the B pillars carry critical structural support for side and rollover crash protection so there may be a legal reason why we can't have the roll-down rear quarter windows with the completely open side like the 1st gen. Great idea though.

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It could also be a rip off of the new corvette...lol. I was trying to stay within Docs basic design of his new Camaro. His car is smaller and extending the window would mean extending the car and more weight I would think. I don't know if this is the reason Doc did this, you would have to ask him.
Just like the 5th gen, there is a hidden B pillar at the back of the door opening which pretty much limits what you can do back there.

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I love all the designs!!

take that California license plate off!! lol other than that I love all of them.
lol yeah I know the California plate style isn't exactly a work of art to look at but it's there for an important design reason. One of my pet peeves is the way front license plates look on cars. The reason why most people like to take them off is they always look out-of-place and crap up the look and styling of the front. Designers like to design their vehicle fronts without the plate because they're ugly so it's always stuck on there somewhere afterwards as an afterthought and it looks just like that; an afterthought.

I deliberately, specifically and intentionally designed the front of this car right from the get-go with a license plate on there so it would look like it fits and is supposed to be there. I worked with and around it to make the front of the car look good so people wouldn't feel like it ruined the looks of their car. In fact the front looks odd without it; looks too thick and heavy in the middle. The plate does a nice job of breaking up that heaviness and it adds a visual "center point" to the hood scoop that actually helps balance the looks of the front. Function is leading to form.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:48 PM   #19
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Pretty nice work there, I'd trade up for it.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:38 AM   #20
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Pretty nice work there, I'd trade up for it.
Well thank you! That's about as good a compliment as one can get.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:47 AM   #21
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I have a roof and windows!!! I know some of you are probably going "big deal" but you have no idea how much time and effort it's taken to get to this point with this software and figure out how to make it look like this.

The thing that's going to be cool about this is once the car is done, I'll be able to place a virtual camera inside and take snapshots of what the view would be if you were the driver or a passenger.

The color is the result of a very low altitude sun. I'll create a studio to place it in once it's finished so I can take pictures of it under studio lighting.

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I still have to create the reverse roof mullet but I thought it was pretty cool to see it actually look like a roof at this stage.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:50 AM   #22
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Keep up the good work Doc 3d modeling takes a lot of time and im sure all of us are patiently waiting
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:50 AM   #23
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Pretty good job.

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Have you sent your application in to Mr. Reuss?
He'd want to speak with Ed Welburn more probably.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:18 AM   #24
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A bit more progress. A 3/4 from the back view, side view and top view.
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The back of the car isn't going to look like that; I just haven't finished sculpting the panels. There's a real science to figuring out how to place the polygon points before you bridge them. It's taken a lot of trial and error to get things to look like this, but I'm getting the hang of figuring things out so hopefully the rest of the project will start going faster.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:06 AM   #25
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Pretty good job.



He'd want to speak with Ed Welburn more probably.
Not if he plans to take Ed's job
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