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Old 08-16-2013, 02:17 PM   #154
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:23 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by silverds View Post
I think some of the design elements that sets a "Muscle Car" apart from a "Sports Car" are the design elements necessary for a Front Engine - Rear Drive. There should be a powerful engine compartment and then rear quarters that portray that there is power being delivered to the ground beneath them.

I'm not sure I am describing what I am trying to say very well, but perhaps if you Google "Yoga Pants" you'll get an idea of the kind of shapes I'm trying to describe.

Also as far as the "face", I think a sports car coming up behind you looks like it might slip right past you and is so efficient you barely notice it passing. When a "muscle car" comes up behind you your first thought is that you are going to be eaten or sucked into the intake. Then when it passes, it should sound like you are riding a bicycle on the track during a Nascar race.

The Camaro, to some extent should look like it's overcoming its inefficient airflow, with brute force. I think having the headlights impacting the airflow rather than sliding under it is a key element as are large air-sucking openings.
Interesting. Very interesting. Basically brute force instead of finesse. Good points.

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Originally Posted by ALLTRBO View Post
I have so many thoughts but so little time. Keep in mind that people who have time to view a thread don't necessarily have time to respond. It doesn't mean that people aren't interested. Quite the contrary, I've been very interested.
First I want to say that I admire your skills and vision, I know this sort of thing isn't easy.

While your latest designs have potential to be cool cars in my eyes... they have absolutely zero potential to be Camaros. Revolutionary can't mean 100% different. As GM might put it, it has to be readily identifiable as a Camaro. Remember the Ford Probe? When it was designed it was to be the next gen Mustang. The serious outcry was over the drivetrain/layout of course, but close behind was the styling. Fortunately they scrapped that plan, because it had 0% Mustang DNA.

As to your first design... I like it, but as others have said, it looks like the 5thgen evolved from that one, not the other way around. It could have been the 'missing' generation. That said... don't scrap it.
I see where you're going, but the problem is the curves. Whether you like it or not, the 6thgen will be more edgy, I can pretty much guarantee that. Done right, I think it will look outstanding that way, without being 'too' trendy. The thing is, almost all production cars have to have a similar 'current' look, or most people won't want them. There are some exceptions (think Lamborghini), but the Camaro isn't one. Being 'edgy' doesn't mean it has to go all Reventon, it just needs that 'modern' definition (that will slowly change over time as it always has).
I'm 100% positive that this will be a strong evolution of the 5thgen but with other gen cues as well, not a revolution or retro of another gen.
The question is... do you want to render something that you feel should be the 6thgen (as you have) or that you feel will be the 6thgen? You're perfectly in the right to do either one.

If you want to render what they're going to release, you have to add some lines and creases that join compound curves. You can do this with your basic shape, you have the greenhouse mostly correct with the further laid back windshield and the slightly more curved top (from the side profile that is). Your exaggerated "reverse mohawk" (as people call it around here) is dead-on.

Sheesh, it's time to get back to work already. There's a lot more I'm thinking and don't have time to express, but the one other thing I want to say before I go is that the headlights/upper grille on the Transformers 4 car is almost exactly what is to come except lower down because the front will have a lower profile (you can throw the rest of that car out the window). Round is dead (for now... it always comes back, but won't any time soon).

Please keep at it because it's very neat to see other's visions come to life (2D life at least). If I don't post anymore it's only because I don't have time to lay down my thoughts.
Good conversation and contribution! Yeah I'm afraid you're right; they're going to do something that looks like it belongs in a transformers movie. If people think George Loizou's rendering is cutting edge and futuristic with it's stupidly oversize wheels, excessively high sides and chopped top (this car would be like sitting in a coffin to drive and have absolutely horrible driver visibility) then yes, they may very well go that direction. (Nothing personal against those who liked that; I don't like it myself). It will sell but the market for that would be less than the market the 5th gen style tapped into. With my designs I'm trying to lower the door sill and open up the cabin and increase visibility not decrease it. I would like to lessen the rear-view blind spots as well, so I'm not doing the lowered chopped-top look.

The 5th gen reached young, old, male and female which is exactly the wide range of buyers you want to reach. A batman movie-style car might sell to hip-hop types or young males running on testosterone and adrenaline, but it's not going to appeal much beyond that demographic.

I've been thinking about your comment of me designing what I think THEY will do, or designing what I would like to see and I think I'll go with what I would like to see since that would be different.

I'm paying attention to the comments about muscle car versus sports car; military-style versus civilian. A brute-force muscle car would lean more towards a military look I think so I'll play around with that idea for a bit and see what I can come up with. I did like the first concept I did that everyone said was too much like the 5th gen. I really liked that 3/4 view front of that one so maybe I can blend that style with a more military/muscle style and see how that looks.

Good feedback guys!
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:32 PM   #156
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Not really liking that shape....how about something based on the 73 shape??


Quote:
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Okay at least this is something... lol

How about we start with basic shapes and go from there....

Longer front/shorter back shape A, or shorter front longer back shape B?
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:33 PM   #157
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I want this!
You only THINK you want that Ryan; just like you thought you wanted the blonde...

Imagine sitting in that and what it would be like to drive. You can't see ANYTHING... not the front, the front corner and the view out the back? Forget it. Those wheels would weigh a ton. The cost of tires for wheels like that would be ridiculous. That car would also be very heavy. Exactly the opposite of what you really want; you're just blinded by the blonde effect.

You'd buy it; be over-the-moon ecstatic for a few weeks. You'd love all the guys your age coming up to you and saying how bad-ass that is and drooling over your car. But the moment you curb-rash it, parking-lot-bumper it, gouge the side because you can't see how close you are to something when turning a corner... the love affair would be over... quickly replaced by frustration and disillusionment. Then you'd sell it and get something smaller, more manageable and more reasonable to drive.

Thanks for posting though and keep looking for new ideas!
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:35 PM   #158
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You only THINK you want that Ryan; just like you thought you wanted the blonde...

Imagine sitting in that and what it would be like to drive. You can't see ANYTHING... not the front, the front corner and the view out the back? Forget it. Those wheels would weigh a ton. The cost of tires for wheels like that would be ridiculous. That car would also be very heavy. Exactly the opposite of what you really want; you're just blinded by the blonde effect.

You'd buy it; be over-the-moon ecstatic for a few weeks. You'd love all the guys your age coming up to you and saying how bad-ass that is and drooling over your car. But the moment you curb-rash it, parking-lot-bumper it, gouge the side because you can't see how close you are to something when turning a corner... the love affair would be over... quickly replaced by frustration and disillusionment. Then you'd sell it and get something smaller, more manageable and more reasonable to drive.

Thanks for posting though and keep looking for new ideas!
It's a rendering... Most rendering are a little over the top. I'll take it with a a slightly higher roofline, like the 5th gens. And some mesh 20" wheels.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:56 PM   #159
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It's a rendering... Most rendering are a little over the top. I'll take it with a a slightly higher roofline, like the 5th gens. And some mesh 20" wheels.
It's not just "a little over the top", it's WAY over the top. Look at your old car in your sig below those renderings... now imagine just what size those render wheels really are. They'd be what.. 30"? If that rendering were redrawn to correctly show practical wheel sizes and body dimensions it would hardly look anything like that. It's the comic book effect; like Japanese anime. Over-sized eyes, overly-dramatic views to give the illusion of "action"... all in the name of drama. It's just not real nor can it be.

I get that you want a more futuristic modern look; I'm hearing that from many others too. As a designer who would like to design a car that can actually be manufactured and pass safety tests, I simply can't do the drama look. I'm paying attention to reality and trying to come up with a design that can become a real car. Something a wide range of people would like to buy. Something that's exciting and fun yet can work as a daily driver.

Please feel free to post any other ideas though as it all helps to get an overall feel of where people are currently at in their thoughts and desires.
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Old 08-16-2013, 03:31 PM   #160
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Also as far as the "face", I think a sports car coming up behind you looks like it might slip right past you and is so efficient you barely notice it passing. When a "muscle car" comes up behind you your first thought is that you are going to be eaten or sucked into the intake. Then when it passes, it should sound like you are riding a bicycle on the track during a Nascar race.

The Camaro, to some extent should look like it's overcoming its inefficient airflow, with brute force. I think having the headlights impacting the airflow rather than sliding under it is a key element as are large air-sucking openings.
Very good!!! Agreed. Of course the car shouldn't be made of squares and actually have huge drag, but I do feel the car should like substaintial and strong.

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.....
I see where you're going, but the problem is the curves. Whether you like it or not, the 6thgen will be more edgy, I can pretty much guarantee that. Done right, I think it will look outstanding that way, without being 'too' trendy. The thing is, almost all production cars have to have a similar 'current' look, or most people won't want them.
....
If you want to render what they're going to release, you have to add some lines and creases that join compound curves. You can do this with your basic shape, you have the greenhouse mostly correct with the further laid back windshield and the slightly more curved top (from the side profile that is). Your exaggerated "reverse mohawk" (as people call it around here) is dead-on.
Again...right on.

I've actually been working on a photoshop of the TF4 bumblebee Camaro lol.

I think with some reworking it could actually look good. That doesn't mean I feel it should be the next gen car, but I want to show what a little change can do.
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:15 PM   #161
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I moved the headlights outward a bit and removed the racing stripes so there's less visual distraction. Does this look more like what you were thinking?
Attachment 540180
Sir, I honestly love this design. I like how every line on the car is aero efficient. Looks like the design has true race car inspiration instead of an oversized "diffuser" to make it look smaller lol. Also like the nose and headlight areas.

I would buy this camaro.
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:58 PM   #162
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1940's Spitfire
Attachment 546196

1950's F-104 Starfighter
Attachment 546197

1960's SR-71
Attachment 546198

F14
Attachment 546199

F-16
Attachment 546200

F-22, F-117, F-15, F-4
Attachment 546201Attachment 546202

Oh I don't know....they've always been leading-edge designs. Fighter aircraft have had a great influence on auto designers for 60 years.

In the 50's, 60's and to some degree the 70's "futuristic" was envisioned as needle-nose, rocket-like, sleek, piercing, flowing shapes. From the 80's-on starting with movies like Blade Runner and Alien things "future" started to take a different shape; more angular for the most part.

Currently the styling "trend" is Japanese anime robot/cartoon/comic book. LED lights styled to look like robot eyes. Lots of "me too" design going on right now. I want the Camaro to NOT look like any of that. So I'm experimenting... trying to find the right "look" that's American, futuristic, powerful, muscular. Not an easy task but at least this thread shows there's interest with hundreds of 'views' a day; even if they're silent viewers mostly at least it shows people are interested.
I wasn't picturing aircraft. I was picturing 4 wheeled vehicles. If you're talking airplanes, absolutely cutting edge. I'm working out here right now at Kadena AB in Okinawa and every time I see an F-15 or F-22 take off I just look at it in awe. So yeah, if we're talking planes, then absolutely. But I don't see a plane in any of your designs?
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:39 PM   #163
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:54 PM   #164
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So I just created a new thread with a poll on my thoughts of a TF4 Camaro refresh. Let me know if you can see this is a 6th gen.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313411
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:06 PM   #165
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Very good!!! Agreed. Of course the car shouldn't be made of squares and actually have huge drag, but I do feel the car should like substaintial and strong.



Again...right on.

I've actually been working on a photoshop of the TF4 bumblebee Camaro lol.

I think with some reworking it could actually look good. That doesn't mean I feel it should be the next gen car, but I want to show what a little change can do.
Yes these were/are great points that really help focus what people see as a muscle car versus a sports car. After thinking about it I believe people see a muscle car as a straight-line accelerator; hence why so many talk about what it can do in the 1/4 mile. A sports car is upgraded from just power, to power and handling so it can handle the curves which is why they tend to have curvy, sleeker shapes to reflect their design purpose of handling curves.

Times have changed though and now the pony/muscle car class is evolving towards sports car territory and that's where there's clashing expectations among those who still want a 427 big block muscle car, and those who want a powerful all-round road car. I've been doing sports car gt designs mostly and it seems they don't have enough "muscle" look.

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Sir, I honestly love this design. I like how every line on the car is aero efficient. Looks like the design has true race car inspiration instead of an oversized "diffuser" to make it look smaller lol. Also like the nose and headlight areas.

I would buy this camaro.
Well thank you! My intention on this design was just as you described it. I wanted it to look classy, timeless, sleek, elegant and be something people would still want to own 40 years from now. If this design were to be made into an actual car, it would look beautiful and catch your eye precisely because it's clean, uncluttered and pure.

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I wasn't picturing aircraft. I was picturing 4 wheeled vehicles. If you're talking airplanes, absolutely cutting edge. I'm working out here right now at Kadena AB in Okinawa and every time I see an F-15 or F-22 take off I just look at it in awe. So yeah, if we're talking planes, then absolutely. But I don't see a plane in any of your designs?
Kadena! Home to an SR-71 group back in the day if memory serves me correctly. Well yeah military tanks and trucks are hardly icons of speed and aerodynamic style lol. Although I think some tank designs look pretty good.

The tear-drop canopy style is there in a couple of my designs. The pinched "coke bottle" waist is there. The wide beefy back (which is where the wings and engines are) thinning and elongated towards the pointed swept front is there in a couple of them. The influences are there. That's my thinking when I say the "military" look.

And thank you for your service.

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Man I haven't seen that one image on the right in a long time lol. Back in the day that was considered a "futuristic" design concept. Now the current generation thinks George Loizou's thick, bulky tank-like design is "cutting edge" and "futuristic". Since the "future" demands less weight, it's going to be interesting to see what actually develops.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:19 AM   #166
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After playing around with military styles I got an idea and went back to an earlier design I did, adding some modifications to the fender lines and opening up the cabin in the front by lowering the front edge.

This has a different lower front and I removed the coke bottle waist effect. I need to do something with the hood but that should be fairly easy. It has a wider ledge between the top of the fender and cabin (which somebody mentioned they like) and I tried a couple of ideas on side marker lights. I mainly want to see if this look would still be accepted as "Camaro-like" or does the fender line go too far away from the heritage look.
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:32 AM   #167
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After playing around with military styles I got an idea and went back to an earlier design I did, adding some modifications to the fender lines and opening up the cabin in the front by lowering the front edge.

This has a different lower front and I removed the coke bottle waist effect. I need to do something with the hood but that should be fairly easy. It has a wider ledge between the top of the fender and cabin (which somebody mentioned they like) and I tried a couple of ideas on side marker lights. I mainly want to see if this look would still be accepted as "Camaro-like" or does the fender line go too far away from the heritage look.
Attachment 546767
I like that one its kind of a blend between the 4th and 5th gens.
I wonder what it would look like with a 4th gen SS style hoodscoop?
On the markers how about making them into the wheel well arch like on the C7 and the Saturn Sky had.
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Old 08-17-2013, 09:45 AM   #168
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:52 AM   #169
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I've added some elements including a few based on feedback. On view C I added some fender flares to the wheel wells, started to add the 'reverse mullet' on the roof, cleaned up the front side marker light, and added Angrybird's idea of the NASA scoop on the hood.

Once I started adding some of these details, to my eye it started to clutter up the look. The clean fender well edges, the clean roof and hood really works visually with this particular design. So....

On view B I got rid of the mullet and flares and put my original idea of a hood bulge created by putting recessed areas in the hood next to where the bulge would be if the center of the hood were bulged upward. This creates the visual illusion of a bulge and creates two areas where hood vents could be.

On view A the hood is cleaned up even further with a simple, traditional style hood bulge.
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept8a.jpg
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Although I really liked my idea of the recessed hood bulge in view B, I have to say... visually... to me, view A looks the best on this body design. What do you guys think? Too retro? Too 5th gen?
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #170
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I've added some elements including a few based on feedback. On view C I added some fender flares to the wheel wells, started to add the 'reverse mullet' on the roof, cleaned up the front side marker light, and added Angrybird's idea of the NASA scoop on the hood.

Once I started adding some of these details, to my eye it started to clutter up the look. The clean fender well edges, the clean roof and hood really works visually with this particular design. So....

On view B I got rid of the mullet and flares and put my original idea of a hood bulge created by putting recessed areas in the hood next to where the bulge would be if the center of the hood were bulged upward. This creates the visual illusion of a bulge and creates two areas where hood vents could be.

On view A the hood is cleaned up even further with a simple, traditional style hood bulge.
Attachment 546831
Although I really liked my idea of the recessed hood bulge in view B, I have to say... visually... to me, view A looks the best on this body design. What do you guys think? Too retro? Too 5th gen?
On the last one the scoop needs to raise up like on the 4th gen, the way you have it there looks looks like it goes down into the hood similar to what the Mustang had in the 90's
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