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Old 12-12-2014, 07:54 PM   #1
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What about Buick?

So there are many of us who would have loved to see a 5th Gen Firebird, but with Pontiac dead, we could see it was highly unlikely.

Eliminating Pontiac was a move to reduce redundancy, which makes some sense. With the variety of Camaro models currently, it seems like all voids are filled, and there may be no place for it.

But what about luxury?

Sure, there is Cadillac...but they have a pretty solid plan, it seems, to take advantage of the new Alpha platform. Plus, back when there was a "sports car" type Cadillac, the XLR, it was based off the Corvette instead of the Camaro (which IMO makes sense even though, I hear, it wasn't very good).

That brings me to Buick, and the 6th generation Camaro.

I like where Buick is going...with the whole, "THAT's not a Buick!" marketing push.

So what about taking the Alpha platform, and creating a "sister" car to the Camaro, but under Buick this time? It could be all focused on comfort and luxury...but not to the level of Corvette/Cadillac...but a model with more luxury and sophisticated* design. While the Alpah platform could be used for sedans and coupes, I'm talking about sticking with the pony car coupe style.

So...for the sake of discussion....if this was an idea that could actually happen, and made some sense, what would you as like to see in a Buick "Camaro"?

What would it be called?

Buick GNX?


(*if I didn't love the Camaro design, I wouldn't own one, so don't read this as a criticism).
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:49 PM   #2
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Alot of people in the G Body community is hoping for a Buick Grand National or GNX based on the alpha platform.

I dont know what role the GN(x) would serve in the performance car lineup at GM, but i do know it would be pretty cool to see the Buick revived as a performance car.

I believe i have read that Buick is pretty popular in china? Perhaps the GN(x) will serve it's purpose much better over there. I imagine so.
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Old 12-13-2014, 12:24 AM   #3
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There were rumors a while back about Regal moving to Alpha but those have since fizzled out.
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:41 AM   #4
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Buick will never shed the old peoples car image no matter how hard they try, GM should just kill it
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:03 AM   #5
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Buick will never shed the old peoples car image no matter how hard they try, GM should just kill it
It will not happen until China sales of Buicks dies off AND GM wises up and make Opel and Chevrolet the same not Buicks and Opels.

As for a Camari based Buick? No offend OP but worst idea ever. If this happens it means GM has forgotten every lesson that led to the bankruptcy.

An Alpha based Buick? No issues. But a Buick entry needs to have a unique mission beyond "hey we could probably make money if we did this"

As for the XLR? I worked on it and it was a decent car........except it had 100 Hp less than a corvette and cost $20,000 more. Quite a bit for an underpowered car with a retractable hard top and slightly nicer interior. But this is the lesson GM better have learned.
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:50 AM   #6
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I would love to have a more "luxurious" Camaro, but rather than creating a whole new vehicle under the Buick nameplate, it would just make more sense to add a luxury package/trim to the Camaro. With all of the different levels we already have, why not just add another?
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:17 AM   #7
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I would love to have a more "luxurious" Camaro, but rather than creating a whole new vehicle under the Buick nameplate, it would just make more sense to add a luxury package/trim to the Camaro. With all of the different levels we already have, why not just add another?
LTZ or Berlinetta. Sorry, I know Berlinetta will sting a few folks, but it did exist and we can't deny it. But in the old days, that was the role of the Monte Carlo also.

LS, 1LT, 2LT and LTZ. That is what every other Chevy has except Corvette and Camaro.
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:12 PM   #8
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TRUE^ Agree, I almost bought a ZL1 just because of the ride! It's sooooooo far ahead of SS and LT's..
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:49 PM   #9
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Buick will never shed the old peoples car image no matter how hard they try, GM should just kill it
Buicks sell well in China. The thinking at GM is that an essential element of Buick's cachet in China is that it's an American brand. If it were to become a China-only brand, it would lose its prestige. Thus, Buick must be kept alive here.

An Alpha coupe with Buick-styling cues, a near-luxury interior and engine choices ranging from turbo 4 to TT-V6 would be awesome. The brand badly needs something like that. Buick has some nice sedans and SUVs, but it's an absolute travesty the way that GM has neglected the brand's heritage of sporty, powerful coupes.
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Old 12-13-2014, 02:11 PM   #10
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Buicks sell well in China. The thinking at GM is that an essential element of Buick's cachet in China is that it's an American brand. If it were to become a China-only brand, it would lose its prestige. Thus, Buick must be kept alive here.

An Alpha coupe with Buick-styling cues, a near-luxury interior and engine choices ranging from turbo 4 to TT-V6 would be awesome. The brand badly needs something like that. Buick has some nice sedans and SUVs, but it's an absolute travesty the way that GM has neglected the brand's heritage of sporty, powerful coupes.
Has very little to do with it being an American brand. Otherwise Chevrolet and Ford would be going gangbusters.

In the years long ago in a China far, far away from what we know now, the Emperor drove Buicks. It carries the cache of that ultimate luxury.

Besides, most Buicks are rebadged Opels and GM tried to take Opel to China and it bombed so bad they pulled it inside of the first year.
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Old 12-13-2014, 02:28 PM   #11
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Has very little to do with it being an American brand. Otherwise Chevrolet and Ford would be going gangbusters.

In the years long ago in a China far, far away from what we know now, the Emperor drove Buicks. It carries the cache of that ultimate luxury.
'Cachet' not 'cache.'

In any case, it's GM's opinion, not mine.

From Bob Lutz:

The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet. They said, "you don't need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand." And we said "well we can't get rid of Buick because Buick is important in China, and if Buick becomes an orphan in the United States then the Chinese are no longer gonna be interested in it." And the Feds said "Fair enough, but everything else goes."

http://jalopnik.com/the-feds-killed-...ays-1452735716
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:11 PM   #12
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'Cachet' not 'cache.'

In any case, it's GM's opinion, not mine.

From Bob Lutz:

The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet. They said, "you don't need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand." And we said "well we can't get rid of Buick because Buick is important in China, and if Buick becomes an orphan in the United States then the Chinese are no longer gonna be interested in it." And the Feds said "Fair enough, but everything else goes."

http://jalopnik.com/the-feds-killed-...ays-1452735716
Thanks for the correction.............on cachet

No where does it state in your quote that China loves Buick because it is an American brand. Which was my point. So it was your opinion I was discussing, not GM's because Bob Lutz agrees with me.

I've said for years that Buick hurts GM in the US. It keeps Cadillac from going down market to compete with the Audi A3, BMW 2 and the MB CLA.

It keeps Chevrolet from making the best cars it can. For example:

Want a 2.0 T in your Cruze? Nope! Buy the Verano.

Want the Hyper link front and linked H-arm rear suspension on your Impala? Nope! Buy the Lacrosse.

Want a great Malibu with style? Nope! Buy the Regal

And again thank you so much for correcting me on cachet.
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:13 PM   #13
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A Buick GN on an alpha platform makes perfect sense for the newly rich young chinese..
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:29 PM   #14
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No where does it state in your quote that China loves Buick because it is an American brand. Which was my point. So it was your opinion I was discussing, not GM's because Bob Lutz agrees with me.
Again, the thinking at GM is that Buick USA must exist in order for the brand to be viable in China. I'm not sure how there could be any clearer statement of this mentality than Lutz's remark:

And we said "well we can't get rid of Buick because Buick is important in China, and if Buick becomes an orphan in the United States then the Chinese are no longer gonna be interested in it."

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And again thank you so much for correcting me on cachet.
You're very welcome. I do my best to eradicate illiteracy.
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:33 PM   #15
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So there are many of us who would have loved to see a 5th Gen Firebird, but with Pontiac dead, we could see it was highly unlikely.

Eliminating Pontiac was a move to reduce redundancy, which makes some sense. With the variety of Camaro models currently, it seems like all voids are filled, and there may be no place for it.

But what about luxury?

Sure, there is Cadillac...but they have a pretty solid plan, it seems, to take advantage of the new Alpha platform. Plus, back when there was a "sports car" type Cadillac, the XLR, it was based off the Corvette instead of the Camaro (which IMO makes sense even though, I hear, it wasn't very good).

That brings me to Buick, and the 6th generation Camaro.

I like where Buick is going...with the whole, "THAT's not a Buick!" marketing push.

So what about taking the Alpha platform, and creating a "sister" car to the Camaro, but under Buick this time? It could be all focused on comfort and luxury...but not to the level of Corvette/Cadillac...but a model with more luxury and sophisticated* design. While the Alpah platform could be used for sedans and coupes, I'm talking about sticking with the pony car coupe style.

So...for the sake of discussion....if this was an idea that could actually happen, and made some sense, what would you as like to see in a Buick "Camaro"?

What would it be called?

Buick GNX?


(*if I didn't love the Camaro design, I wouldn't own one, so don't read this as a criticism).

Maybe a Riviera?
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:44 AM   #16
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A Buick GN on an alpha platform makes perfect sense for the newly rich young chinese..
This sounds logical.
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:17 PM   #17
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Buick has no coupes,so bring the riviera back! It makes since! A convertible too while your at it!
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:37 PM   #18
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Convertible is probably on the way.
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:59 PM   #19
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Thanks for the buick info guys , I had no ideal that it was so big back in China , That is a huge market and if China wants it then GM will be more than happy to supply them , But back in the good old USA not too many young people or even middle age people would even consider driving a Buick with all the choices they have, , Now if they did bring back the Rivera , I might consider that , those use to be some really nice looking cars back in the day
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:34 PM   #20
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Thanks for the buick info guys , I had no ideal that it was so big back in China , That is a huge market and if China wants it then GM will be more than happy to supply them , But back in the good old USA not too many young people or even middle age people would even consider driving a Buick with all the choices they have, , Now if they did bring back the Rivera , I might consider that , those use to be some really nice looking cars back in the day
China is so big that GM, Ford and BMW, and many others, are focusing on China. Few have gotten their foot in the door yet. But GM came early, and is rather popular there.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:30 PM   #21
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Again, the thinking at GM is that Buick USA must exist in order for the brand to be viable in China. I'm not sure how there could be any clearer statement of this mentality than Lutz's remark:

And we said "well we can't get rid of Buick because Buick is important in China, and if Buick becomes an orphan in the United States then the Chinese are no longer gonna be interested in it."



You're very welcome. I do my best to eradicate illiteracy.
And Bob is the guy who told us how great the Cobalt was.

I worked at GM a lot longer than the great Bob but hey don't even bother to check the facts, just rely on a single quote. The Chinese love Buicks because of the history. If it was only because it was American then Chevy and Ford would be doing great and Cadillac wouldn't be the 40th best selling brand. But don't check me just reprint that quote with more bold letters.

Annnnd you might want to check the definition of illiteracy. Has very little to do with spell check or whether you actually understood what I meant or was trying to communicate.
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:26 AM   #22
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Thanks for the buick info guys , I had no ideal that it was so big back in China , That is a huge market and if China wants it then GM will be more than happy to supply them , But back in the good old USA not too many young people or even middle age people would even consider driving a Buick with all the choices they have, , Now if they did bring back the Rivera , I might consider that , those use to be some really nice looking cars back in the day

I heard that there was a Chinese Emperor that used to drive a Buick many years ago and that started the popularity for Buick in China that is still going on today.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:09 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=Number 3;8113876]And Bob is the guy who told us how great the Cobalt was.

I worked at GM a lot longer than the great Bob but hey don't even bother to check the facts, just rely on a single quote.QUOTE]

I have zero love for Bob Lutz. Even the NAME brings back bad memories. IDNK if it is truly justified or no, but I correlate his tenure with the production of such pieces of shit as the HHR, SSR, a rebadged Holden Monaro, and econo cars. Meanwhile the F-body gets given the shaft(yes, I am aware there were many other contractual and safety factors at work here as well), and performance enthusiests are all but abandoned, unless you want a turbo'ed Cobalt or have the coin for a C6Z.
Glad to see him gone.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:06 PM   #24
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I heard that there was a Chinese Emperor that used to drive a Buick many years ago and that started the popularity for Buick in China that is still going on today.
Thats kind of like owning a blackberry today
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:52 PM   #25
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If its possible to look at the brand with unobjective eyes its not all that bad, except.....the freaking 1982 front grille! It...is...time...to...kill...the....grille. jmho
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