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Old 12-01-2014, 05:34 PM   #1
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What's happening GM

GM needs to release something interesting about the camaro soon..

There is hype going on in the ford camp. New Mustang, new gt350 and soon to come 350r, gt and raptor

The ecoboost is a viable performer for those that require less weight and love turbo's more than v8 growl.

The v8 stang with performance pack, although not able to keep up with an "old" 1LE, has a nice interior, IRS, powerful v8 and drives rather well. It's modern.

The gt350 has a flat plane crank! Easily the most exiting news in american v8 history since the LS engines went into production. It's interesting to see how an american made flat plane crank 5.2 liter v8 will do in terms of performance and longevity.

A more radical version of the gt350 will also be revealed soon. Being that the regular gt350 will have equal power to the z28 and most likely weigh less, i dont know what the R version of the gt350 will be able to do. Stripper stang at 3500lbs and 500 horsepower strong? Who knows!

A new GT to compete or surpass the vette and viper?

A raptor?

Possibly more?

What does GM have for their trusted followers so far? A slightly redesigned camaro that looks like the old one. Other than sharing platform with both a heavier CTS and lighter ATS.

We're in the middle of the 2'nd and greatest muscle car war with very few years left before treehuggers will shut it down with regulation. It's not unlikely that these years will be the final breath for affordable gas powered v8 cars. (i)Books will be written about what came out of the Big Three during these years.

I really really want the camaro to succeed. A turbo 4 cylinder 3700lbs slouch with 280 horsepower wont cut it. Neither will a 460hp 3800lbs lt1 v8 camaro be.
I used to be a brand loyalist, but life is short. My choice of cars while being here will no longer be determined by a brand, but whoever delivers the best performance car i can afford now, and in used condition when depreciation sets in further down the road.

Maybe it's just ramblings from a huge car nut spending all my money on stuff i dont need.

What do you think?
Are you also dying to find out more about the camaro considering everything else going on in the automotive world?

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Old 12-01-2014, 06:10 PM   #2
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I think you've been drinking too much Ford Kool Aid.

It sound like you're very impressed with the new Mustang and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why. Poor styling, boring performance, a detuned V6 and a 4 cylinder. And the GT track pack that got beat by the outgoing 1LE.

It's Ford guys who should be pissed right now and many are. But if you really like the new Mustang... just go get one and be happy.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:16 PM   #3
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Thank God GM is actually being tight lipped about a product for once.

Leaks are nothing but trouble.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:31 PM   #4
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I think you've been drinking too much Ford Kool Aid.

It sound like you're very impressed with the new Mustang and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why. Poor styling, boring performance, a detuned V6 and a 4 cylinder. And the GT track pack that got beat by the outgoing 1LE.

It's Ford guys who should be pissed right now and many are. But if you really like the new Mustang... just go get one and be happy.
Do you have a reading problem Sir?

THIS is the reason im willing to walk away from any of the makes. Fanboyism. I cant stand it. Neither from the GM folks or Ford freaks.. It's so childish.

I already wrote that the 1LE can out pace a new mustang. And a 4 cylinder turbo for people who value other stuff more important than v8 growl.

I just wrote a very detailed post on whats going on, or maybe even the lack thereof. And all you can manage is to tell me to buy a mustang?
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:37 PM   #5
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Thank God GM is actually being tight lipped about a product for once.

Leaks are nothing but trouble.
Please tell us there is something worth waiting for on the 2016. Will it be beating the mustakes in more than just streets that run in circles?
We dont need to know specific details just tell us if its even worth the wait! I'm dying to jump on the v8 wagon with my finger on the trigger but holding back until we get some news on this bad girl
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:44 PM   #6
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Thank God GM is actually being tight lipped about a product for once.

Leaks are nothing but trouble.
You could be right being it is nothing but trouble. But what about other makes and models running with all the attention right now? Would it not be better if GM somehow kept the rumour mill going much lile Ford is doing/have been doing for some time now?
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:49 PM   #7
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Please tell us there is something worth waiting for on the 2016. Will it be beating the mustakes in more than just streets that run in circles?
We dont need to know specific details just tell us if its even worth the wait! I'm dying to jump on the v8 wagon with my finger on the trigger but holding back until we get some news on this bad girl
This was my initial thought. The competetion is getting harder and this is the best time ever for muscle cars.

Please GM, let the new camaro be amazing inside and out.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:31 PM   #8
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It's fine for them to let Ford have their fun and then release info when they're ready. The timing of the release of the info and the start of 6th gen sales is more important than the timing in comparison to what other manufacturers are doing.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:46 PM   #9
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Someone needs to take a chill pill> Geez
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:21 PM   #10
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NAIAS starts January 12th, maybe we will find out then. Also I maybe in the minority but I don't particularly like the Mustang interior.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:33 PM   #11
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Thank God GM is actually being tight lipped about a product for once.

Leaks are nothing but trouble.
They must've spoken to Apple on how to shut up about their products hahaa
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:55 PM   #12
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I think they are playing their cards wisely, look at Ford, has no idea what GM has up its sleeve so its throwing all their chips on the table with the GT350 Reveal at LA, and now the GT350R, GT, and Raptor rumored to be released at Detroit.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:11 PM   #13
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I think they are playing their cards wisely, look at Ford, has no idea what GM has up its sleeve so its throwing all their chips on the table with the GT350 Reveal at LA, and now the GT350R, GT, and Raptor rumored to be released at Detroit.
So to be clear, the GT350 isn't even available until next fall. Ford needed something to go along with the Mustang to go, "see we have a track car too". And by all we can determine from content, it will likely be short of the Z/28 simply for tires and brakes. So to beat the Z/28 will require this "R" package which supposedly does get the CC brakes. Kudos as Ford will likely undercut the Z/28 in price, but not likely the 1LE simply for the cost of the engine.

GT? No big deal here unless Ford can get the price under $100,000, then it something. And again as there are no spy shots of cars running around Ford is either keeping it the biggest secret of all time or it's at least 2 years out.

Raptor? Not my cup of tea. And hopefully they fix the bendable frame. Likely this is simply the aluminum F150 set up for Raptor. The lower weight could be nice, but to do the off road thing will likely just add weight back in. Maybe they give it the GT350 engine???? This is probably the closest to production even likely ahead of the GT350.

So I'm not concerned. I'm more worried about an LT2 powered competitor to the GT350 and 350R. I'm not worried about the Gen6 SS vs. Mustang GT nor am I worried about the LT4 powered Gen 6 ZL1. Covered on both accounts. Just wondering if GM has a NA counterpunch to the GT350...................which will likely launch just after the GT350 LOL
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:20 PM   #14
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I think they are playing their cards wisely, look at Ford, has no idea what GM has up its sleeve so its throwing all their chips on the table with the GT350 Reveal at LA, and now the GT350R, GT, and Raptor rumored to be released at Detroit.
Or...Ford is being a leader. Look at Fords Flat Plane Crank design...GM doesnt have one. Ford is leading the way right now and they are first to market with an updated performance vehicle, and this will give Ford an edge in market share IMO. GM needs to bring it big with the 6th gen.

Personally, I'm not liking the new stang design except gt350 is much nicer and we'll see how it performs, but flat planes are used in super cars, so if they did it right...expect a beast that will draw buyers in the high performance market.

I'm confident Gm will put out a stellar vehicle, but they need to not wait for the sake of waiting vis-a-vis releasing high performance variants....just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:23 PM   #15
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Oh I agree, I'm not worried about anything that Ford is releasing, I actually think they are trying so hard to call GM's bluff that its going to blow up in their face once the 6th gen is released. And Id be money we get a ss with track package or 1le whatever they want to call it at launch, with a zl1_equivalent not far behind. I can't wait to see how this all plays out
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:51 PM   #16
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So to be clear, the GT350 isn't even available until next fall. Ford needed something to go along with the Mustang to go, "see we have a track car too". And by all we can determine from content, it will likely be short of the Z/28 simply for tires and brakes. So to beat the Z/28 will require this "R" package which supposedly does get the CC brakes. Kudos as Ford will likely undercut the Z/28 in price, but not likely the 1LE simply for the cost of the engine.

GT? No big deal here unless Ford can get the price under $100,000, then it something. And again as there are no spy shots of cars running around Ford is either keeping it the biggest secret of all time or it's at least 2 years out.

Raptor? Not my cup of tea. And hopefully they fix the bendable frame. Likely this is simply the aluminum F150 set up for Raptor. The lower weight could be nice, but to do the off road thing will likely just add weight back in. Maybe they give it the GT350 engine???? This is probably the closest to production even likely ahead of the GT350.

So I'm not concerned. I'm more worried about an LT2 powered competitor to the GT350 and 350R. I'm not worried about the Gen6 SS vs. Mustang GT nor am I worried about the LT4 powered Gen 6 ZL1. Covered on both accounts. Just wondering if GM has a NA counterpunch to the GT350...................which will likely launch just after the GT350 LOL
I agree. The 6th gen SS and ZL1 will be great unless GM seriously drops the ball. I'm interested in seeing how GM will replace the Z/28. With the Z06 going supercharged, either they develop a stand alone engine, like the LF4 in the ATS-V, or there is another Corvette coming in the near future that will have a high performance N/A engine.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:03 AM   #17
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GM has all the "Cred", to use a term from this generation, when it comes to having an expansive performance car repertoire by any American auto manufacturer. I do not have a worry in the world about a performance group that has in the past and in the coming near future been responsible with putting out the 1LE, Z/28, ZL1, Z51, Z06, ZR1, ATS-V,CTS-V Sport, and CTS-V just to remind all the naysayers.

I would be honored to have any one of these fine performance cars as my own, thats why I bought a ZL1 and it will not be my last GM purchase if they continue to improve on each gen model as they have demonstrated so far. GM is in my opinion the performance leader with engineers and developers who know what true total performance is all about.

I fell in love with BMW's back in the '80's because of they're understanding of driving dynamics and performance but I must say GM has finally in the last decade with thanks to Bob Lutz and crew, been able to develop and offer some of the most desirable cars on the market today. GM has always had the talent in house but they were hampered by bean counters and other higher ups that did not understand that passion and lustful want is what drives us to spend our hard earned money which in turn drives car sales. See Camaro as example numero uno.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:36 AM   #18
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Or...Ford is being a leader. Look at Fords Flat Plane Crank design...GM doesnt have one. Ford is leading the way right now and they are first to market with an updated performance vehicle, and this will give Ford an edge in market share IMO. GM needs to bring it big with the 6th gen.
You could look at it that way. The Mustang camp is a talented bunch of engineers but I can't help but see all sorts of ways GM influenced the latest Mustang. In appearance, the Mustang has some pretty predominant rear hips not really seen in a Mustang and the GT350 magnetic suspension to just name a couple things. The 5th gen has outsold the Mustang every year the 5th gen was out, and further the 1LE, ZL1 and Z28 did some schooling on the Mustang. So you can bet your ass the late 5th gens influenced how the current Mustang models are shaping up.

I think GM will absolutely nail the 6th gen. They got the late 5th gens so good with a heavy chassis that was originally never designed to accommodate a coupe. Now they have a fantastic chassis in Alpha to fully exploit that was designed with the Camaro in mind....I think Ford better watch out. Seeing what GM could accomplish with the 5th gen, I am pretty excited to see what is done with the new one.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:40 AM   #19
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Thanks. This is what i was hoping for.. Valid points from all of you.

Seeing how much Ford is coming out with at the moment could be actions of desparation. And needing a gt350r to keep up with the z28 will be a major fail for Ford IF it is not released immediately. And even if it is, GM will still have the upper hand being that the z28 is old and outgoing production.

Also, while a flat plane crank v8 is cool, it is not necessarily superior to a crossplane crank.
The FPC 5.2 is rumoured to be +500hp and 400ftlbs with a confirmed 8200rpm redline. I must say im impressed with the engine. And it will sound like nothing else on this planet. But 400ft lbs is not much in a +3600lbs car. That gt350 will be screamin up and down everywhere, like ferraris, to keep up with a camaro. That might be fun. But only if reliability will not be an issue.
Being that ferrari never went this big in a flat plane crank v8, im thinking Ford either invented the wheel or designed an engine that will shake itself to death at 50.000 miles. It will be very exiting to see how it will fare.

Great times to be a car nut!! Please blow my mind GM. 3600lbs stripper camaro with a lt1 v8. I'd probably get a second job to get my hands on that;-)
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:28 AM   #20
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I hear where you are coming from on this Autonaut - I have only owned Camaro's since I was 16, and can't even really imagine buying a Mustang. BUT - my loyalty won't exceed my desire for the best product available for my money. If the 6th Gen is a big miss, it will be awfully tempting to look elsewhere given what I've seen....
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:51 AM   #21
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Someone needs to take a chill pill> Geez
This...

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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
So to be clear, the GT350 isn't even available until next fall. Ford needed something to go along with the Mustang to go, "see we have a track car too". And by all we can determine from content, it will likely be short of the Z/28 simply for tires and brakes. So to beat the Z/28 will require this "R" package which supposedly does get the CC brakes. Kudos as Ford will likely undercut the Z/28 in price, but not likely the 1LE simply for the cost of the engine.

GT? No big deal here unless Ford can get the price under $100,000, then it something. And again as there are no spy shots of cars running around Ford is either keeping it the biggest secret of all time or it's at least 2 years out.

Raptor? Not my cup of tea. And hopefully they fix the bendable frame. Likely this is simply the aluminum F150 set up for Raptor. The lower weight could be nice, but to do the off road thing will likely just add weight back in. Maybe they give it the GT350 engine???? This is probably the closest to production even likely ahead of the GT350.

So I'm not concerned. I'm more worried about an LT2 powered competitor to the GT350 and 350R. I'm not worried about the Gen6 SS vs. Mustang GT nor am I worried about the LT4 powered Gen 6 ZL1. Covered on both accounts. Just wondering if GM has a NA counterpunch to the GT350...................which will likely launch just after the GT350 LOL
...and this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLHMARINES View Post
.... I do not have a worry in the world about a performance group that has in the past and in the coming near future been responsible with putting out the 1LE, Z/28, ZL1, Z51, Z06, ZR1, ATS-V,CTS-V Sport, and CTS-V just to remind all the naysayers.

...
and that. lol

Sure, Ford may have some exciting sport products coming, or they may not. Its not like GM is sitting around with their thumb up their butt. In the last year or two they have released some pretty great performing products (new Vette, Z/28) and just released/announce more (Z06/ATS-V) with more coming soon (new Camaro, CTS-V). So don't be blind just because Ford has some cool stuff coming. So does GM.

Yeah, it would be nice if Chevrolet would tease us with something when it comes to the next Camaro....but they don't have to do anything. I'm hoping we'll know a lot more (reveal?) in a few months.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:10 PM   #22
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Or...Ford is being a leader. Look at Fords Flat Plane Crank design...GM doesnt have one. Ford is leading the way right now and they are first to market with an updated performance vehicle, and this will give Ford an edge in market share IMO. GM needs to bring it big with the 6th gen.

Personally, I'm not liking the new stang design except gt350 is much nicer and we'll see how it performs, but flat planes are used in super cars, so if they did it right...expect a beast that will draw buyers in the high performance market.

I'm confident Gm will put out a stellar vehicle, but they need to not wait for the sake of waiting vis-a-vis releasing high performance variants....just my 2 cents.
Keep in mind that Mustang is a 2015 MY, and was released last year. Now, they are starting to buzz about the GT350 due out, what next fall?

The Camaro is a new generation slotted for 2016, and probably won't start rolling down the line until June or July of 2015. Heck, they probably haven't completely finalized a good portion of the car yet.

While the Mustang is a nice car, if you think about it, what Ford has finally done is make a car that competes well with the outgoing Camaro. So, we'll see what GM has up their sleeve in Jan. But this little fued has been going on since the late sixtie's.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:12 PM   #23
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Keep in mind that Mustang is a 2015 MY, and was released last year. Now, they are starting to buzz about the GT350 due out, what next fall?

The Camaro is a new generation slotted for 2016, and probably won't start rolling down the line until June or July of 2015. Heck, they probably haven't completely finalized a good portion of the car yet.

While the Mustang is a nice car, if you think about it, what Ford has finally done is make a car that competes well with the outgoing Camaro. So, we'll see what GM has up their sleeve in Jan. But this little fued has been going on since the late sixtie's.
I disagree with your last point about competing with the outgoing Camaro, I mean Ford isn't stupid, they know GM is coming with a new product, so i'm sure they wouldn't be shooting for a 1 or 2 year lead in the category. I don't think Ford is looking at GM to lead the way and react in kind, I think Ford, whether they succeed or not, is looking to lead in this category - time will tell - my vote as of now is with GM though.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #24
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I hear where you are coming from on this Autonaut - I have only owned Camaro's since I was 16, and can't even really imagine buying a Mustang. BUT - my loyalty won't exceed my desire for the best product available for my money. If the 6th Gen is a big miss, it will be awfully tempting to look elsewhere given what I've seen....

MAN!!! Ive been waiting what feels like forever to be approved, mostly so I can comment on this statement. I am the EXACT same way. 3 Vettes. 6 Fbodies.....and now I drive a GT500. It was REALLY hard to switch. That whole 'Allegiance' thing. I still fire back with "Its not a Mustang. Show me a Pony anywhere on that car" when people who know me jaws hit the floor that Im not driving a GM car.
The moral being, that I REALLY hope they do this next generation right. I bought this GT500 a few months ago because, as you stated, Mako22, "my loyalty wont exceed my desire for the best product available for my money." I look out for MY best interest. Not GMs. Not Fords.
Im hoping that GM pulls out the big guns and once again is the 'best product available for my money'. Like in the 4th Gen era. I am really missing my roots right now.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:21 AM   #25
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I think the OP is just saying it would be nice for GM to reveal some details in the interest of...interest

We all know by being the late comer, you will be able to obviously out do the current competition.

I think in terms of performance we have nothing to worry about. GM has always done right by that in regards to the Camaro.

I can't wait for some more pics
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