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Old 02-27-2013, 06:29 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
But the LS2 and LS4 were performance engines. The LS4 5.3L came after the LS2 6.0L. Take the LS4, which had DOD, and give it DI/VVT and you may be able to get more HP and greater MPG without having to use DOD/AFM. Those same people buying GXPs, Impala SSs and Monte Carlos SSs back in the mid 2000s would probably buy something with those characteristics again.
You’re talking about a few different things here.

The LS1, LS2, LS3 have been the base performance engines from GM since 1997. As you have seen the displacement has gone up from 5.7L to 6.0L to 6.2L during the Gen IV LS engine run. This has been done to meet higher and higher performance objectives. With no real penalty in external size and weight from an LS1 to LS3 the added HP and torque from larger displacement has allowed cars like Corvette to remain competitive in the marketplace. If they can maintain the performance increases from the larger displacement and still hit fuel economy targets for Gen V with the new technology there is no reason to go lower displacement.

As for the LS4 powered FWD W cars they will probably not be duplicated again. A combination of CAFE and the advent of modern and more powerful direct injected 4cy and V6's with forced induction options will make the FWD V8 obsolete.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:00 PM   #77
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I agreee but disagree also. If they produce a car that takes kindly to after market enhancing, one might be more apt to purchase it over another less modifyable car.
While I completely agree with you and this is something I think about when purchasing a vehicle.

I can say that the vast majority of consumers do not share our passion.

And on GM's list of priorities for developing a new Camaro or V8 engine having an easily modifiable engine is far closer to the bottom of the list than the top. Fuel economy numbers and advertised HP and torque will take precedence because those things will help sell the cars that are powered by these engines.

It’s hard to say GM doesn’t care about aftermarket performance because of the vast amount of products from crate engines to even cars like COPO Camaro but when it comes to modifying street cars they sell it’s just not a high priority.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:21 PM   #78
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I think we all want better gas mileage, regardless of AFM. If they are doing it to appease the US Govt, then so be it.

The only reason they are doing it is to appease the government. If we were all that concerned about mileage, we would be driving V6 Camaros. The gimmicks GM is using to increase mileage is to meet artificial marks set by the government, not by the people buying the car.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:51 PM   #79
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AFM on the 2014 stringray with have the option of turning on or off by the owner.
I am curious where you saw that it was switchable. I have been on the C7 forum and have not seen anything that says its switchable..
Not saying your wrong, there is like a million posts on the C7 forum so could have easily missed it. Could you send me the link to this?
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:33 PM   #80
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I am curious where you saw that it was switchable. I have been on the C7 forum and have not seen anything that says its switchable..
Not saying your wrong, there is like a million posts on the C7 forum so could have easily missed it. Could you send me the link to this?
Thanks!
Good question!...His post was all I saw that said it was...nothing was mentioned in the LT1 links that were posted...This could throw a wrench into everything!...lol
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:57 AM   #81
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I am curious where you saw that it was switchable. I have been on the C7 forum and have not seen anything that says its switchable..
Not saying your wrong, there is like a million posts on the C7 forum so could have easily missed it. Could you send me the link to this?
Thanks!
...I just put up a thread in the Vette forum asking about this....Fen replied that their may be some sort of "mode" that limits AFM kicking in...I guess they really don't know what's up yet, either...still speculating over there...
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:27 AM   #82
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...I just put up a thread in the Vette forum asking about this....Fen replied that their may be some sort of "mode" that limits AFM kicking in...I guess they really don't know what's up yet, either...still speculating over there...
Engineers did an interview, and there was some details in writing about how the Driver Selection Mode system can disable AFM in competition modes, and maximize it's operation for touring/Eco modes.

Certainly don't want AFM to activate that one freak moment when you're coasting to a turn around a track!

I'll see if I can find it - but I haven't been saving C7 documentation like I do Camaro stuff...
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:37 AM   #83
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Engineers did an interview, and there was some details in writing about how the Driver Selection Mode system can disable AFM in competition modes, and maximize it's operation for touring/Eco modes.

Certainly don't want AFM to activate that one freak moment when you're coasting to a turn around a track!

I'll see if I can find it - but I haven't been saving C7 documentation like I do Camaro stuff...
It wouldn't surprise me if it was configured to only invoke AFM if you were running at a sustained speed/rpm for a given period of time, a period of time that would not usually be enountered at the track.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #84
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It wouldn't surprise me if it was configured to only invoke AFM if you were running at a sustained speed/rpm for a given period of time, a period of time that would not usually be enountered at the track.
"Usually" being the key word. Currently, AFM is programmed to only activate if a given set of circumstances are true, like speed, load, throttle position...very similar to the logic that makes skip-shift (CAGS) work.

It sounds as though this new AFM is something quite special in terms of effectiveness...I can only imagine that means, partially, it's working more often...so that could be bad in a spirited-driving situation. Wouldn't surprise me one bit that engineers made a point to offer a choice, so Corvette wouldn't get bad press from enthusiasts...

Still looking for where I saw that...
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:51 AM   #85
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"Usually" being the key word. Currently, AFM is programmed to only activate if a given set of circumstances are true, like speed, load, throttle position...very similar to the logic that makes skip-shift (CAGS) work.

It sounds as though this new AFM is something quite special in terms of effectiveness...I can only imagine that means, partially, it's working more often...so that could be bad in a spirited-driving situation. Wouldn't surprise me one bit that engineers made a point to offer a choice, so Corvette wouldn't get bad press from enthusiasts...
"IF" to even limit AFM in future Camaros can only be done by "turning off the nannies"/ a "competitive" mode...lol...could spell disaster for a lot of drivers who just want to get away from AFM...(poor Fbodfather will really get stressed out)...lol...

Hopefully it's something less "radical" in Camaros than going "track-mode"...
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
"IF" to even limit AFM in future Camaros can only be done by "turning off the nannies"/ a "competitive" mode...lol...could spell disaster for a lot of drivers who just want to get away from AFM...(poor Fbodfather will really get stressed out)...lol...

Hopefully it's something less "radical" in Camaros than going "track-mode"...
It's more than we have now, isn't it? Can't see how much worse the outcry could get.

And it makes perfect sense to me....why wouldn't you want better fuel economy when you're just tooling around, or cruising down a highway. Principle? Silly argument, imo....sound? 100% fair - but it appears as though this has been thought of on the Corvette, too.

If you're not just rolling to the grocery store - chances are you'd be in sport mode, to have some fun...at which point AFM is gone, or greatly reduced, whatever the case may be...

"The future is now", as they say....drivers who just want to get away from fuel-saving tech either need a time machine, or a lot of letters to elected individuals.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:16 PM   #87
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It's more than we have now, isn't it? Can't see how much worse the outcry could get.

And it makes perfect sense to me....why wouldn't you want better fuel economy when you're just tooling around, or cruising down a highway. Principle? Silly argument, imo....sound? 100% fair - but it appears as though this has been thought of on the Corvette, too.

If you're not just rolling to the grocery store - chances are you'd be in sport mode, to have some fun...at which point AFM is gone, or greatly reduced, whatever the case may be...

"The future is now", as they say....drivers who just want to get away from fuel-saving tech either need a time machine, or a lot of letters to elected individuals.
...Sounds like a good compromise/"pacifier"...given the "situation"...lol...I'd say if it flies with the 'Vette crowd, should be good enough down the road for the Camaros...
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:01 PM   #88
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Well there should be a 3 mode switch to be honest for AFM, or 2 mode and the 3rd engages with cruise control. There is almost no reason to have 8 cylinders pumping on cruise control. Mode 1-Sport(AFM off) Mode 2-Standard(AFM works as advertised under specified parameters) and Mode 3 "economy" or "cruise"(uses 4 cylinders for city driving or cruise control) Like was previously stated, if I can get 30+ MPG on the highway in a V8 Camaro why wouldn't I?
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:21 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
"Usually" being the key word. Currently, AFM is programmed to only activate if a given set of circumstances are true, like speed, load, throttle position...very similar to the logic that makes skip-shift (CAGS) work.

It sounds as though this new AFM is something quite special in terms of effectiveness...I can only imagine that means, partially, it's working more often...so that could be bad in a spirited-driving situation. Wouldn't surprise me one bit that engineers made a point to offer a choice, so Corvette wouldn't get bad press from enthusiasts...

Still looking for where I saw that...
If the AFM was configured to only kick in when it sensed (among other things) a steady speed for 3-4 min, then I doubt like heck you would ever encounter it at a track.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:19 PM   #90
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If the AFM was configured to only kick in when it sensed (among other things) a steady speed for 3-4 min, then I doubt like heck you would ever encounter it at a track.
But it's not like that...the current AFM system is primarily programmed based on engine load, not time.

Waiting several minutes would undermine the very principle of saving fuel.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:20 PM   #91
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Ignorance mode here....AFM is a shortcut to reach fuel economy standards, leaving WOT or better than part throttle to make the power we want. This technology has been around for decades. Drop cylinders at cruise. If we want HP without some premium price/surcharge there will be sacrifices.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:12 AM   #92
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But it's not like that...the current AFM system is primarily programmed based on engine load, not time.

Waiting several minutes would undermine the very principle of saving fuel.
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Ignorance mode here....AFM is a shortcut to reach fuel economy standards, leaving WOT or better than part throttle to make the power we want. This technology has been around for decades. Drop cylinders at cruise. If we want HP without some premium price/surcharge there will be sacrifices.
...Been a few interesting posts in C7 forum regarding AFM for the LT1...
...May be harder to tune out, if desired...No feedback on manual trans AFM yet, of course...
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:07 PM   #93
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LT4 will probably work its way into the 6th gen eventually.
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I think the rumors about the LS7 are more for the final year(s) of the 5th Gen. I think (read hope) the LS7 will have it's swan song with the Camaro, but I'm pretty sure its on the way out.

I don't really know what to expect with the LS3. I don't think it will go away immediately, but GM is going the migrate everything over to the Gen V motors at some point. We will probably see the LS3 and L99 through the rest of the 5th Gen Camaro runs. We may see the L99 popup in some other platforms before it is retired. It's all really hard to guess, but we know ultimately GM will replace the Gen IV motors with the Gen V motors.
Gretch, hat's off for the LS7 call in the 5thGen Z/28...I would think this Z/28 and the LS7 would be carried into the 6thGen now...(hopefully)..
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:44 PM   #94
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Gretch, hat's off for the LS7 call in the 5thGen Z/28...I would think this Z/28 and the LS7 would be carried into the 6thGen now...(hopefully)..
Now how do I convince the wive I need two Camaros???
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:02 PM   #95
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...Been a few interesting posts in C7 forum regarding AFM for the LT1...
...May be harder to tune out, if desired...No feedback on manual trans AFM yet, of course...
New info from the Corvette forum regarding the LT-1 V8 and AFM...

Apparently the new Vettes will have several driving modes available to the driver...(No news there except now they incorporate AFM functions)...

Only one of several modes uses AFM...It is off in all others, including the "default" mode...Great news for the Vette guys, but still unknown whether or not the 6thGen Camaros will have a driving mode selection similar that will keep AFM off for the automatic trans or the manual trans or both...

It would be a definite up-grade for the Camaros to have AFM be a driver option like the Vettes...
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:21 AM   #96
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Anyone see how E85 affects these new engines (V6 and V8)??

Saw this in another section...not sure how official it is but apparantly E85 is tuned aggresively from the factory. We've seen custom tunes like this for the V6 for E85 that made good power results, but I don't recall seeing a factory Gas/E85 capable tune that made more power while on E85.

4.3 V6 Stock power: 285hp 305TQ. E85: 297HP 330TQ
5.3 V8 stock power: 355HP 383TQ. E85: 380HP 416TQ

So I'm thinking the 6.2 on E85 factory tune could see nearly 500HP 500TQ???
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:31 AM   #97
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Anyone see how E85 affects these new engines (V6 and V8)??

Saw this in another section...not sure how official it is but apparantly E85 is tuned aggresively from the factory. We've seen custom tunes like this for the V6 for E85 that made good power results, but I don't recall seeing a factory Gas/E85 capable tune that made more power while on E85.

4.3 V6 Stock power: 285hp 305TQ. E85: 297HP 330TQ
5.3 V8 stock power: 355HP 383TQ. E85: 380HP 416TQ

So I'm thinking the 6.2 on E85 factory tune could see nearly 500HP 500TQ???
Wouldn't that be a hoot?...lol...I thought this E85 was supposed to be terrible....The gas blend stuff is a mystery to me...
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:28 PM   #98
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Gretch, hat's off for the LS7 call in the 5thGen Z/28...I would think this Z/28 and the LS7 would be carried into the 6thGen now...(hopefully)..
Now that would be VERY interesting considering the the LS7 is a gen IV engine and theyre moving to gen V engines.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #99
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Now that would be VERY interesting considering the the LS7 is a gen IV engine and theyre moving to gen V engines.
Yeah, that was wishful thinking on my part, for sure...lol....

Wiz, the latest in the Z/28 forum is the LS7 may be just a one year deal in the Z/28...The LS7 is over with for sure here pretty soon...
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:44 PM   #100
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The LS7 is over with for sure here pretty soon...
I'm sure they will keep making them, just as crate engines and not going into production cars.
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