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Old 02-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #101
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damn tree huggers... wonder when they will start throwing red paint on our cars

Edit: you can have yours just give me mine
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:17 AM   #102
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And the fact would also be that if the Camaro didn't come with a V8 there would be one less Camaro owner out there "ME".

All you V6ers can talk all the "burn" crap you want, but with out the history of the V8 the history of the Camaro changes in a big way, and more then likely we wouldn't have the 5th gen we have today..

So put that in your pipe and smoke it, and STFU already nobody cares what you purchased and drive but you..

It's just a car and its your car so get in drive and enjoy..

V6ers saved the Camaro and V8, that is the dumbest yet funniest thing I have read on this Fourm!!
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:29 AM   #103
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They should keep the V8 but incorporate technology where the engine shuts off at stoplights and where 4 cylinders deactivate when you don't need the horsepower. That way, Camaros can keep that exhaust sound that everyone is in love with and kick the future Mustang's butt. A turbo V6 would be nice too. Anything over 400 hp is a bit excessive for daily use. Also... what happened to door panels that resisted door dings that Saturn used to put on their cars? Their cars were super lightweight, quick and great on gas mileage without all that extra steel.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:39 AM   #104
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And the fact would also be that if the Camaro didn't come with a V8 there would be one less Camaro owner out there "ME".

All you V6ers can talk all the "burn" crap you want, but with out the history of the V8 the history of the Camaro changes in a big way, and more then likely we wouldn't have the 5th gen we have today..

So put that in your pipe and smoke it, and STFU already nobody cares what you purchased and drive but you..

It's just a car and its your car so get in drive and enjoy..

V6ers saved the Camaro and V8, that is the dumbest yet funniest thing I have read on this Fourm!!
lol. Gotta love this big boy talk.

But seriously, nobody believes the V6 or the V8 saved the Camaro. They go hand in hand when it comes to this car. GM saved it by making it attractive this time around. Without the good looks, the car fails, and same goes for the next gen.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:41 AM   #105
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V6ers saved the Camaro and V8, that is the dumbest yet funniest thing I have read on this Fourm!!
Even you should admit at least to yourself that the business case for the 5th Gen Camaro would have been considerably weaker without the V6 option.


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Old 02-09-2013, 11:44 AM   #106
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If Camaros are going to be the new Honda accord I don't want one. If they are going to be Altimas-- No. EV's can be pretty fun? What site are we on? You are HOPING for a prius Camaro? You can buy a Leaf or Prius right now! Why advocate for a Camaro to be one? You guys always claim V8 owners are attacking V6rs. All I see is attacks against anyone who even states they like V8's. Maybe this forum is done for me and I just need to find one where one is not ridiculed for liking LS3 and LS7 engines.
Wow!!! Sure hope you didn't hurt yourself jumping to all of those conclusions there.

Love the LS7. If you knew my life story you might begin to understand that.

Where did you get the hoping for a Prius Camaro? We do have a $1 Million dollar Porsche Hybrid though. Is that a bad thing?

The Camaro IS a coupe. LS and LT compete against other V6 coupes in the same price range. You are missing something if you don't understand the the coupe banner is carried by the Camaro. And if all you need in a stylish coupe is a V6 for some fun and reasonable economy, then the things that this website has b**ched about for 3 years now matter. Trunk space and lift over. High belt lines and poor visibilty. Poor sightlines out the back. And as many miles as I've put on Camaro's, I have yet to try to parallel park one.

You act as if there were no Berlinettas in the Camaros past. At it's heart it is a stylish and affordable coupe. SS, IROC and Z28 versions over the years have made for some awesome cars...............based on a stylish coupe.

Would GM be better off if the Camaro was THE coupe of choice? Stealing sales from Honda and Nissan? You better believe it.

I hope you able to see the train wreck of higher and higher gas prices coming at us. And I am curious as to what that solution is from your perspective. The only way to keep a V8 powered car in the Fleet is to have far more economical choices to choose from. And if stealing sales from Honda and Nissan on the 4 and 6 cyclinder cars gets the numbers high enough then there is more room for a V8 in the Average.

Also don't you think the Camaro would have been farrrrrrrr better off at launch with an interior and ergonomics similar to the Honda and Nissan coupes? Boy I sure do.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #107
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Even you should admit at least to yourself that the business case for the 5th Gen Camaro would have been considerably weaker without the V6 option.


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When are you going to realize that you're always bringing up the V6 in this argument because even you 4 cylinder supporters can't defend a 4 cylinder on it's own merits?
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:51 AM   #108
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But it WON"T JUST BE GM. It will be everyone.
Used and refurbished. We did it in the late 70's & early 80's. History doesn't repeat, but it can rhyme.

When are you guys going to understand that buyers don't respect companies who sell "performance" cars whose main purpose is economy? And that there's always another option.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:55 AM   #109
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I hope you able to see the train wreck of higher and higher gas prices coming at us. And I am curious as to what that solution is from your perspective. The only way to keep a V8 powered car in the Fleet is to have far more economical choices to choose from. And if stealing sales from Honda and Nissan on the 4 and 6 cyclinder cars gets the numbers high enough then there is more room for a V8 in the Average.

Also don't you think the Camaro would have been farrrrrrrr better off at launch with an interior and ergonomics similar to the Honda and Nissan coupes? Boy I sure do.
Wow, you're really selling this econo-Maro.

Anyway, the US is going through an energy boom right now. And once other countries start using fracking tech, energy worries are over.

The only thing keeping gas prices up right now is our sinking dollar. All commodity prices are up because of it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #110
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When are you going to realize that you're always bringing up the V6 in this argument because even you 4 cylinder supporters can't defend a 4 cylinder on it's own merits?
Because what the four is intended to cover this time around is exactly what the sixxes have been doing for the Camaro since 1967 (and the Mustang since a couple of years before that. "Entry level" to the Camaro.

Try to get past the idea that 4's are incapable of decent performance.

And for the record, I've been mentioning IL-6's as well. Not all sixxes are/were V's.


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Old 02-09-2013, 12:02 PM   #111
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lol. Gotta love this big boy talk.

But seriously, nobody believes the V6 or the V8 saved the Camaro. They go hand in hand when it comes to this car. GM saved it by making it attractive this time around. Without the good looks, the car fails, and same goes for the next gen.
Big boy talk? lol gotta love the V6er talk..

I agree with the good looks and I also agree both motors go hand in hand. I'm OK with it. But the whole V6 saved the V8/Camaro childish I can't believe I have a drivers license posts above are ridiculous...

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Even you should admit at least to yourself that the business case for the 5th Gen Camaro would have been considerably weaker without the V6 option.


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I do admit it, and as I stated I'm OK with it. I never said other wise. The only thing I said is I wouldn't be driving one if not for the V8. It's just my personal preference.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:13 PM   #112
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Because what the four is intended to cover this time around is exactly what the sixxes have been doing for the Camaro since 1967 (and the Mustang since a couple of years before that. "Entry level" to the Camaro.

Try to get past the idea that 4's are incapable of decent performance.

And for the record, I've been mentioning IL-6's as well. Not all sixxes are/were V's.


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The turbo 4 they're talking about is a step down from the current 6. Sorry, it's not a performer.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #113
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That's silly. Your v6 wouldn't exist without a V8 either. It would have just been a Monsa.
It just goes to show that the "V6's don't belong in a Camaro" guys are stupid.

Obviously, the two wouldn't exist without each other. That's not the point. You don't hear any V6 owners saying the V8's don't belong do you?

Let's try to keep things in context here.

Watching these threads to into all out bashes is sooo fun. I'll just sit back and watch. This is getting good.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #114
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It just goes to show that the "V6's don't belong in a Camaro" guys are stupid.

Obviously, the two wouldn't exist without each other. That's not the point. You don't hear any V6 owners saying the V8's don't belong do you?

Let's try to keep things in context here.

Watching these threads to into all out bashes is sooo fun. I'll just sit back and watch. This is getting good.
Don't think anyone is bashing the v6...Quite the contrary...Keep the V-6, upgrade it, whatever...The Camaro doesn't need a smaller/"entry-level" I-4....The V-6 already serves that purpose and offers more than any I-4 does...

....Sinking good money into a "smaller" engine takes away funds and technology research, whatever that could go into improving v-6s and v8s..

If the Camaro had no other option than the v-8, sure sales would suffer and the need for a less expensive option would be needed to keep the car afloat...But that is not the case...The v-6 has done just fine for several years already...

I sort of see more v-6ers cheerleading for an I-4 just so they can rub an embarrassing engine in the face of v-8 owners...sad to see performance, horsepower, "muscle", if you will, going in the wrong direction...
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #115
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Don't think anyone is bashing the v6...Quite the contrary...Keep the V-6, upgrade it, whatever...The Camaro doesn't need a smaller/"entry-level" I-4....The V-6 already serves that purpose and offers more than any I-4 does...

....Sinking good money into a "smaller" engine takes away funds and technology research, whatever that could go into improving v-6s and v8s..

If the Camaro had no other option than the v-8, sure sales would suffer and the need for a less expensive option would be needed to keep the car afloat...But that is not the case...The v-6 has done just fine for several years already...

I sort of see more v-6ers cheerleading for an I-4 just so they can rub an embarrassing engine in the face of v-8 owners...sad to see performance, horsepower, "muscle", if you will, going in the wrong direction...
Yeah I see your point but I'm not one of your cheerleaders lmao.

I understand that the market and regulations are changing and a 4-cyl. Camaro may very well be in our future. I agree with you on the whole 'use the money on improving what you already have' deal. The CAFE standards are a crock though. Carbureted engines have been getting 40+ MPG for decades and suddenly it's a problem to get an electric car over that. Then you have the VW Rabbit Diesel which easily saw 55+.

I would much rather see future Camaros have no less than 6 cylinders but if they decide to drop a '4' in one I'll just not buy it and continue my life as normal
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #116
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Because a 2 cylinder Camaro would just be silly.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:18 PM   #117
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Chevy HAD a four cylinder Camaro in the 70's. They just called it the "Vega" I had one for about six months. It was a bad idea then. It's a bad idea now.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:42 PM   #118
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....wake up and smell the GOV. The shit is gettin' real as in a not to distant past phrase suggests..., look I want 8's forever, truth is it ain't happen', the modern DI motors... 4 or 6's, with forced induction will take over, not my decision. There will be the next Gen 5 8 cyl family, but at a premium,... sorry, but even though the climate is beyond turning around, the GOV will do it's best to further complicate our issues and pass the price down to the consumer. Welcome to the 21st century.
The only thing that appears to be beyond hope of turning around is the successful science defying brainwashing that has otherwise perfectly intelligent people worshipping at the altar of "climate".

It's so bad nowadays that people freely give up their freedoms to coporatists in the GOV getting rich off this claptrap while accumulating power from stolen liberty.

All the while the clapping seal reporters^h^h^h^h^h^h repeaters churn out propaganda that blinds many people to the facts until it is too late.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:46 PM   #119
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Folks, as they say, it's baked in the cake..the new motors are going to rock, it's the change over factor that have the most vocal indualvistalic opponists concered about change....accept, not fear it..., why the worry?
Because if you let the government decide what kind of car you can drive, who knows what will happen next? One day you may wake up in a country where the government tells you what kind of milk you can drink, what kind of lightbulbs you can buy, what kind of toilet you can install, and what kind of guns you can own. OOPS! TOO LATE!

We have to draw the line before these things happen, otherwise it will snowball. How would you like to live in a world where you are told what job you will have and what state you must live in.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:00 PM   #120
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FUTURE SPOILER ALERT - at some point we will be discussing how we can't drive our perforamnce cars when gas is $10 per gallon. Look at the projections for the Chinese auto market lately? 30 million units by early next decade. India? Just barely getting an automobile market. Statistics show that well over half of the buyers in China and India are first time buyers. That is telling. And they will all want oil.

2nd FUTURE SPOILER ALERT - at some point this conversation will be had about eliminating gasoline or diesel and only having electric propulsion (EVs and Fuel Cells are coming). And EVs can be pretty fun to drive as well.
And they accuse me of being all "Doom" and "Gloom"?

If all that is true, then pretty much mothing we are being forced to do now regarding CAFE and such actually amounts to ANYTHING. All the oil is going to eventually get used up by china, and they will use it up in the most polluting possible ways.

The way I see your scanario is that we're now forcing people to pay tons of money on super efficient cars so that we can preserve the fuel supply so that our enemies can have it when they begin expanding.

So we intentionally hobble ourselves for nothing.

In that light, not only is CAFE illegal as I have been saying, but it's also incredibly useless and therefore is utter STUPIDITY.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #121
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Used and refurbished. We did it in the late 70's & early 80's. History doesn't repeat, but it can rhyme.
They learned their lesson last time.

This time they took YOUR tax dollars and GAVE them to people in exchange for their perfectly good used cars so they could GRIND THEM UP, so you won't be able to find one when you are shopping for one in the future to get aroud this CAFE crap.

Cash for Knuckleheads.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:07 PM   #122
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Chevy HAD a four cylinder Camaro in the 70's. They just called it the "Vega" I had one for about six months. It was a bad idea then. It's a bad idea now.
Holy crap!...I think you found the Gen6 body-style!...lol
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:22 PM   #123
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Wow!!! Sure hope you didn't hurt yourself jumping to all of those conclusions there.

Love the LS7. If you knew my life story you might begin to understand that.

Where did you get the hoping for a Prius Camaro? We do have a $1 Million dollar Porsche Hybrid though. Is that a bad thing?

The Camaro IS a coupe. LS and LT compete against other V6 coupes in the same price range. You are missing something if you don't understand the the coupe banner is carried by the Camaro. And if all you need in a stylish coupe is a V6 for some fun and reasonable economy, then the things that this website has b**ched about for 3 years now matter. Trunk space and lift over. High belt lines and poor visibilty. Poor sightlines out the back. And as many miles as I've put on Camaro's, I have yet to try to parallel park one.

You act as if there were no Berlinettas in the Camaros past. At it's heart it is a stylish and affordable coupe. SS, IROC and Z28 versions over the years have made for some awesome cars...............based on a stylish coupe.

Would GM be better off if the Camaro was THE coupe of choice? Stealing sales from Honda and Nissan? You better believe it.

I hope you able to see the train wreck of higher and higher gas prices coming at us. And I am curious as to what that solution is from your perspective. The only way to keep a V8 powered car in the Fleet is to have far more economical choices to choose from. And if stealing sales from Honda and Nissan on the 4 and 6 cyclinder cars gets the numbers high enough then there is more room for a V8 in the Average.

Also don't you think the Camaro would have been farrrrrrrr better off at launch with an interior and ergonomics similar to the Honda and Nissan coupes? Boy I sure do.
I was not jumping to conclusions and I don't know your background (why would I?) you said it needed to to be like a Honda or Nissan. We disagree sir. While I am NOT against V6's as a base trim, my feelings about the Essence of what a Camaro is does not include it being the same or similar to an accord or Altima or an EV which you also mentioned.

Like many on here you back up your statements by acting as if you didn't make them and the other person is crazy. I can't be the only Camaro enthusiast who doesn't want the Camaro to devolve into a Honda accord or an econo cruze.

Now explain to me how foolish I am for not wanting the Camaro to be just like every other boring middle of the road Honda, Nissan, or Toyota.

Go ahead and speak the praises of the Accord and 4 cylinder hybrid econo boxes. Tell us how the days of fire breathing muscle cars are thankfully over and
We should embrace mediocrity. The Camaro has never been mediocre, just another coupe for the masses. I believe it's special and one of Americas unique muscle cars. That why I'm on this site. They make Honda sites and Prius chat for people who really like them.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:14 AM   #124
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The turbo 4 they're talking about is a step down from the current 6. Sorry, it's not a performer.
If the weight also comes down a step, actual acceleration performance might not be enough different to notice without a stopwatch. Other measures (not just fuel usage) could actually improve.

Never mind that people buying in at the lower power levels tend not to be all that interested in brutal acceleration anyway. The current V6 is more than many will ever use as it is. These people are the "some's good" in "some's good, more's better, and too much is just enough", and there really are a lot of them. Just not people like either you or me.



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Don't think anyone is bashing the v6...Quite the contrary...Keep the V-6, upgrade it, whatever...The Camaro doesn't need a smaller/"entry-level" I-4....The V-6 already serves that purpose and offers more than any I-4 does...
If the rules were staying the same, that would be the intelligent thing to do.

Quote:
....Sinking good money into a "smaller" engine takes away funds and technology research, whatever that could go into improving v-6s and v8s..
In different states of tune there is every reason to believe that the same engine would be made available in other platforms.


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I sort of see more v-6ers cheerleading for an I-4 just so they can rub an embarrassing engine in the face of v-8 owners...
I don't see that at all. What I do see is a few V8 cheerleaders expressing fear that any new 4-cylinder variant will be not the least bit better than models with the low-tech 4's of the fairly distant past, and that somehow the V8 versions will be adversely affected as a direct result. Kind of a glass-is-half-empty train of thought.


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Old 02-10-2013, 08:25 AM   #125
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the way i see it, it's better to have a choice than not.
it would be fine if they offered a 4 cyl. camaro and let the people buy the camaro with the engine type that they like
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