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Old 01-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja View Post
What car do you own? I drove an M3 and it was completely different than what your experience seems to be...
I doubt you've driven an M3 with a DCT transmission because I have driven a few myself and they drive exactly like what 'Sweet Z' has described. I've even driven the new M6 which has DCT and its the same story. DCT's are indeed automatic transmissions equipped with two clutches. Each attending to the alternate gears. The SMG gear box is the one that really can't be categorised as automatic, even though it too works on paddle shifter and shifter lever and no clutch pedal.

I think what you've driven is one of the M3's which was equipped with the SMG gear box, cuz that drove very much like what you initially were describing, basically like a proper manual transmission....just minus the clutch pedal.

Are you sure the M3 you drove had DCT? Because even the current outgoing M3 comes with DCT, but as an option....just needs you to throw in the bigger bucks...otherwise it comes standard with the old SMG or a stick shift!!
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:32 PM   #252
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Just curious for your thoughts - what if you could turn it off via a button/mode setting from the factory?
Still don't want AFM, even if you can shut it off. The problematic lifters would still be there. The low lift, low revving cam would still be there. Huge resonator and quiet mufflers to kill the drone would still be there. Valves in the exhaust before the mufflers on convertibles. Marshmallow soft eng/trans/diff mounts to control the AFM vibes... equals wheel hop. AFM means all kinds of band aids get added on to mask the problems created by AFM. All to just barely, get a hair more mpg.

I'd rather have a V8 performance car, all designed around the performance of a strong V8. Give it a muscle car exhaust note, firm up the driveline mounting to get rid of the wheel hop. Give it a cam that will pull to 6600 rpm, and lifters that won't crap out. If that means paying a gas guzzler tax, I'd rather do that then have a muscle car that keeps switching to 4 cyl.

What we really need is some lobbyist help or petitioning DC to put some exceptions to the gas guzzler laws. If a company's total fleet of vehicles gets quite good mileage, give some exceptions for the lower volume specialty cars. Or if someone's daily driver is a gas mizer... they get one free gas guzzler. Or, make anything capable of alternative fuel (E85)... exempt from the gas guzzler tax.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:22 AM   #253
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PDK like transmission.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:04 AM   #254
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**** all v6s
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajmalian View Post
I doubt you've driven an M3 with a DCT transmission because I have driven a few myself and they drive exactly like what 'Sweet Z' has described. I've even driven the new M6 which has DCT and its the same story. DCT's are indeed automatic transmissions equipped with two clutches. Each attending to the alternate gears. The SMG gear box is the one that really can't be categorised as automatic, even though it too works on paddle shifter and shifter lever and no clutch pedal.

I think what you've driven is one of the M3's which was equipped with the SMG gear box, cuz that drove very much like what you initially were describing, basically like a proper manual transmission....just minus the clutch pedal.

Are you sure the M3 you drove had DCT? Because even the current outgoing M3 comes with DCT, but as an option....just needs you to throw in the bigger bucks...otherwise it comes standard with the old SMG or a stick shift!!
Nope 2011 M3 Frozen Gray Cabrio with a DCT

The setup of a DCT is also more similar to that of a manual than an automatic. They are not true automatics and they are not true manuals they are a combination (Semi-Automatic or Automated Manual). Also a Stick Shift is standard, they got rid of the SMG a while ago.

If you can show me that they do still offer the SMG though I'd like to see it because I can't find a single reference to it past 2008...

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #256
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Guidelines were added, at least on my 12.

And the steering wheel is way better in the 12, wouldn't buy another car if it had the 2010 wheel.

They took them away (guidelines) on the 2013...
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:15 PM   #257
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LT1 motor.
less weight.
better interior.
better shift knob (stock one is horrible).
nicer seats.
better sounding exhaust (stock sounds like a honda)
closer gear ratio.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:00 PM   #258
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AFM would kill the new Camaro for me.
-Heavy lifters,no low rpm sound,vibration and all that for just a couple mpg on the sticker...
I'd rather pay gas-guzzler tax because in the real world you put your foot into it to disable AFM,use more gas that a V-8 driven in low rpm and have the heavy valvetrain.
AFM is nothing than a gimmick and a bad idea with a push-rod valvetrain.
With ohc or dohc at least you don't have the penalties of a slower revving,heavier valvetrain because there is no need for 8 heavy AFM lifters...
No AFM with the V-8 !
Get a Cruze-Eco instead...
Not necessarily advocating for it......but it's no gimmick...truly saves gas, and is ingenious in its engineering.

I sincerely look forward to seeing how they have it operate on the LT1 in the Corvette. They wouldn't put something sub-standard on the Corvette...that's why the C6 didn't have it. So it should be pretty good.

My hope, and since they offer an "off" button for the AFM on the Vette, is that it is truly seamless, and doesn't effect the sound at all (with clever exhaust tuning, of course.)
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:17 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Not necessarily advocating for it......but it's no gimmick...truly saves gas, and is ingenious in its engineering.

I sincerely look forward to seeing how they have it operate on the LT1 in the Corvette. They wouldn't put something sub-standard on the Corvette...that's why the C6 didn't have it. So it should be pretty good.

My hope, and since they offer an "off" button for the AFM on the Vette, is that it is truly seamless, and doesn't effect the sound at all (with clever exhaust tuning, of course.)
An on and off switch for AFM would be nice but I'm willing to bet it would get used more often than not. I know I would leave it on for the daily grind.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:13 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Not necessarily advocating for it......but it's no gimmick...truly saves gas, and is ingenious in its engineering.

I sincerely look forward to seeing how they have it operate on the LT1 in the Corvette. They wouldn't put something sub-standard on the Corvette...that's why the C6 didn't have it. So it should be pretty good.

My hope, and since they offer an "off" button for the AFM on the Vette, is that it is truly seamless, and doesn't effect the sound at all (with clever exhaust tuning, of course.)
My gas mileage in my L99 SS went up after disabling AFM...





Just saying...
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:30 PM   #261
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I'd like to see the new camaro get some interior inspiration from the new corvette C7.
At the same time keeping the quad gauge pod at the bottom of the center stack, but
with a higher end appeal.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:40 PM   #262
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I hope they come out with a twin turbo LFX V6 version, so we can geat a CARB legal boost! Nobody makes them, and there are a lot of V6's in CA.
Twin Turbo! Yes! With something to give the Nissan GTR goosebumps.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:22 PM   #263
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Twin Turbo! Yes! With something to give the Nissan GTR goosebumps.
Quite possible, because it's in development for Cadillac:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/04/...d-v6-the-3-6l/
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:53 PM   #264
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My opinion on AFM is that it is a useless gimmick just to comply with the new cafe of 35,5mpg.
GM just doesn't sell enough VOLTS...
I also don't think that there will be a off-button for AFM because otherwise they would get sued because of the certified mpg number.
So in the real world people will enjoy maybe a couple mpg better fuel economy but those people don't buy V-8 cars in first place but get real economic cars.
Guys like us will drive in a lower gear with higher rpm to defeat AFM to drive in V-8 mode for the sound or whatever and get worse mpg...
On top of that in pushrod motors AFM burdens the valvetrain with 8 heavier lifters...
Don't get me wrong I love better fuel economy but I am not a fan of AFM on a pushrod V-8 !I love low rpm V-8 sound and you can't get that with AFM...:(


Doesn't really bother me. I just use the Tapshift when I feel the need for a little more hooliganism! The AFM actually probably really helps this car get amazing mileage on the highway. I've had lots of times where on a 280km trip to the city I get all the way down to 10L/100km at 128km/h. That's amazing mileage for a 6.2litre engine. I can't complain! Just wish that the stock exhaust on the Automatic engine was more aggressive. It's pretty tame until you give it at least half gas
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:48 PM   #265
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I would like to have revised; The drivers vision forward. One can't see past the pillar post's forward, making it near impossible to judge the nose clearance and distance. This is a gamble in parking situations with contacting parking barriers, or other low ground objects forward. The rear quarter windows and long sail panel are vision obstructions, but not as bad as the the front. The side view mirrors compensate for the rear vision discrepancy. The center console is very high. The console compartment door height is above the shifter horizontal plane of movement, causing elbow contact with the door. Cup holder is impractical due to proximity of the shifter, causes contact to anything in the holder when shifting. I would like to see standard HID Halo lights, phase out the mailbox slot, have a matching upper and lower grille pattern on all models. Redesign the bulky/awkward looking rear standard diffuser. Do not offer any heritage design wheels or caps, design everything fresh on a new clean sheet of paper for the C6 Camaro. Phase out the block script CAMARO emblem. Don't incorporate anything on the body's exterior such as slots, vents, scoops etc...that is not functional. Include in optional hi performance package racing seats and harnesses. That's a few more thoughts I have for now.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:06 PM   #266
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Quite possible, because it's in development for Cadillac:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/04/...d-v6-the-3-6l/
I LIKE IT!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:30 PM   #267
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Chevy_Man,I gather you have a new SS with a slushbox,tapshift.
You shift down and run higher rpm to defeat AFM,but this defeats the origional idea of running on 4 cylinders and saving gas.
I say if you want to save gas buy a 4 banger and if you want V-8 power and sound get a V-8 but leave the AFM off the menue.
I guess for people who don't care about low rpm V-8 sound,cruising around town,AFM is a great thing...
You want to know how much my 6-speed,LT-1 in my 2002 SS gets at 80mph/128km/h?Excactly 25mpg,which is pretty much 9,6 L/100Km...
At that without AFM,and low rpm V-8 sound...
You replaced your LS1 with an LT1?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:41 PM   #268
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Twin Turbo! Yes! With something to give the Nissan GTR goosebumps.
So in other words.... AWD

A Corvette ZR1 (purely talking straight line racing here, and of course a ZR1 can/will be faster than a GT-R) doesn't scare a GT-R let alone a Camaro ZL1. A Twin Turbo V6 isn't going to make a GT-R wet it's pants
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:16 AM   #269
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5. Change the oval trunk opening - make it big enough to fit golf club bag in without first having to take out the driver & 3wood
THIS!
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:58 AM   #270
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'69 style hideaway headlights and factory houndstooth seats. Navigation display and back up camera option for all models.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:14 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Not necessarily advocating for it......but it's no gimmick...truly saves gas, and is ingenious in its engineering.

I sincerely look forward to seeing how they have it operate on the LT1 in the Corvette. They wouldn't put something sub-standard on the Corvette...that's why the C6 didn't have it. So it should be pretty good.

My hope, and since they offer an "off" button for the AFM on the Vette, is that it is truly seamless, and doesn't effect the sound at all (with clever exhaust tuning, of course.)
Here is a compromise idea if some think they want AFM. Leave it in the high volume models, but make a competition oriented model without it. But still an affordable model, not just the uber expensive route like the Z06/ZR1.

Make a HO version of the LT1, +25 hp from base with the addition of a non-AFM cam. Put that engine in a lower volume track oriented model such as a 1LE. To compete against the Boss 302.

Then people can buy a non AFM manual trans version if they want one. And the masses can still have AFM in the higher volume models for EPA purposes.

BTW, I turned off AFM in my new Silverado. Zero difference in MPGs. It appears to be strictly aimed at EPA test parameters, and in my real world driving made zero difference. Zero benifit to mpgs, and all kinds of AFM related stuff added, low perf cam.... means I don't want it. Even if it did miraculously add 2 mps... don't care, this is a fun car not the daily driver fuel mizer.

My vote and hopefully the deciples take this foward.... make a performance version available with no AFM with the manual trans. And not just the uber expensive supercar beater model. Something affordable like the 1LE.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:19 PM   #272
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My vote and hopefully the deciples take this foward.... make a performance version available with no AFM with the manual trans. And not just the uber expensive supercar beater model. Something affordable like the 1LE.


For every drivetrain option, auto companies have to recertify, for the bureaucracy – another expense.

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:03 AM   #273
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adjustable selective rpm for launch controll, side view mirrors that tilt when in reverse so the wife quits curbing the wheels,multi colour choices in the interior lighting strip, yes halo lights standard, setting for running premium fuels,
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:49 PM   #274
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ah yes -- hideaway headlamps.

Now - before I go further: I LOVED hide-away headlamps on the 1st gens - as well as Corvette and Caprice (68, 69) and El Dorado (67 and 68) --
I was sorry to see the hidden headlights go from the El Dorado starting with the 1969 model year, and on the second generation RS Camaros as well.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:46 PM   #275
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May i come out of hibernation to post up?

1. 3500lbs or less is the most important thing. (3300-3400lbs, ideal)
2. Overall length no longer than 185 inches. (180",ideal)
3. Lower by 1.0"
4. Width decreased by 2.4"
5. Wider standard tires. 9" F x 10" R
6. New digital gauge cluster
7. competition seat option (Recaro's?)
8. SS/1LE suspension becomes a universal option for all transmissions
9. Dual clutch Transmission option (DCT)
10. Aluminum chassis, Hood & trunk!!! Carbon fiber body can stay on the vette to cut costs

Engine... GM makes one friggin awesome v8. I know whatever they do their? They'll do it right.

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