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Old 12-28-2011, 06:39 PM   #176
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I have always been a Camaro fan, owned a 1988, 2001, 2002(current) and my 2011 1SS(current)... 4th Gen style is still my Favorite... I will definitely look into the 6th Gen when it is available, I will surely be interested if the 6th Gen is less weight with OddBall motor combos, like the Eco Turbo 4 Banger with about 310hp or a Turbo/TwinTurbo V-6.... Hopefully it will be a pleasant sight when it becomes available.... Does it count that I had a 1969 Z/28 shell for about 2 weeks ????
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:03 PM   #177
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GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs! Haha its a brick.... Go drive a Boss 302 or just a GT at a track & then come back on here & tell me which one you like more. Like I & other mentioned Camaros got the look & its name. That's where it ends. The LS3 is a great engine but not when the car its in can weigh close to 4,xxx lbs!

For people who are saying just add hp instead of lowering the weight should just go ahead & because that's the dumbest thing a car company could do. Why add a huge amount of power when it will barely go anywhere because it weighs so much. Compared to a car with a little less hp & weighs 300-400 lbs less?? Look at the older GT500. Its a brick & a half & barely beat 5th gens. Heavy performance cars are pointless. Weight is a huge factor in a lot of things. Hence why all the rear super cars are all carbon fiber etc so it doesn't weigh much. Weight in certain spots is great. But that's a whole other thing. For drag racing, at the track, & getting good mpg. You want that weight down. Adding more hp & keeping the weight would just put all those to shame

If anyone at GM is reading this get that 6th gen Camaro in the Mustang range of 35xx lbs
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:05 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by DoggyB22 View Post
GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs!
Is that right?

It's not a Miata, but the Camaro handles just fine. Moderate body roll and .9 G in standard SS trim is up there in some very fine company. It's achilles' heel is a tendancy to understeer that the 2012 FE4 suspension fixed a bit.

Naturally it can and will get better with the next generation, but I think you're grossly under-representing the car's ability as it is.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:10 PM   #179
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...didn't have time to go thru this thread - but let me say this:

Anything - ANYTHING - you read about a 6th Gen Camaro from "Insiders" should be taken with a grain of salt substitute. (that's worse that a grain of salt.....)

IF we are working on a 6th gen - you can believe that any info. is very proprietary and anyone that says they know what's going on (unless their last name is Reuss, Oppenheiser, Pilcher, Clark, Fitzpatrick, or a hand-ful of others - ) --- they're not being truthful.

Take that to the bank.

Now - I'm NOT saying we don't care about what you think - we do and that's why we travel and sit and talk with many of you one-on-one - and that's why we have our 15 Disciples (who will be visiting with us once again very shortly) -
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:22 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
...didn't have time to go thru this thread - but let me say this:

Anything - ANYTHING - you read about a 6th Gen Camaro from "Insiders" should be taken with a grain of salt substitute. (that's worse that a grain of salt.....)

IF we are working on a 6th gen - you can believe that any info. is very proprietary and anyone that says they know what's going on (unless their last name is Reuss, Oppenheiser, Pilcher, Clark, Fitzpatrick, or a hand-ful of others - ) --- they're not being truthful.

Take that to the bank.

Now - I'm NOT saying we don't care about what you think - we do and that's why we travel and sit and talk with many of you one-on-one - and that's why we have our 15 Disciples (who will be visiting with us once again very shortly) -
Hello there Fbodfather!!

I can completely understand how you wouldn't have time to go through a thread like this...but just in case you get the time, or some members of the Camaro team get time a thread like this can be priceless because I feel it shows what your Camaro customer base wants.

If anything, going over the past 3 to 4 pages would be a good read on what people want from their next Gen Camaro. I have faith in you guys, and I know you work hard to make sure you deliever what you want...just don't pass up on this free and easy to get customer feedback!

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Old 12-28-2011, 08:35 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by DoggyB22 View Post
GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs! Haha its a brick.... Go drive a Boss 302 or just a GT at a track & then come back on here & tell me which one you like more. Like I & other mentioned Camaros got the look & its name. That's where it ends. The LS3 is a great engine but not when the car its in can weigh close to 4,xxx lbs!

For people who are saying just add hp instead of lowering the weight should just go ahead & because that's the dumbest thing a car company could do. Why add a huge amount of power when it will barely go anywhere because it weighs so much. Compared to a car with a little less hp & weighs 300-400 lbs less?? Look at the older GT500. Its a brick & a half & barely beat 5th gens. Heavy performance cars are pointless. Weight is a huge factor in a lot of things. Hence why all the rear super cars are all carbon fiber etc so it doesn't weigh much. Weight in certain spots is great. But that's a whole other thing. For drag racing, at the track, & getting good mpg. You want that weight down. Adding more hp & keeping the weight would just put all those to shame

If anyone at GM is reading this get that 6th gen Camaro in the Mustang range of 35xx lbs
Yeah, all these supercars are super light.

Off the top of my head, there's the 3800 Audi R8 5.2, the 3700 lb Lamborghini Aventador, the 3600 lb Aston Martin One 77, and the 3500 lb Lexus LFA.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:49 PM   #182
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hmm are we done with the zl1 already ?
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:53 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by DoggyB22 View Post
GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs! Haha its a brick.... Go drive a Boss 302 or just a GT at a track & then come back on here & tell me which one you like more. Like I & other mentioned Camaros got the look & its name. That's where it ends. The LS3 is a great engine but not when the car its in can weigh close to 4,xxx lbs!

For people who are saying just add hp instead of lowering the weight should just go ahead & because that's the dumbest thing a car company could do. Why add a huge amount of power when it will barely go anywhere because it weighs so much. Compared to a car with a little less hp & weighs 300-400 lbs less?? Look at the older GT500. Its a brick & a half & barely beat 5th gens. Heavy performance cars are pointless. Weight is a huge factor in a lot of things. Hence why all the rear super cars are all carbon fiber etc so it doesn't weigh much. Weight in certain spots is great. But that's a whole other thing. For drag racing, at the track, & getting good mpg. You want that weight down. Adding more hp & keeping the weight would just put all those to shame

If anyone at GM is reading this get that 6th gen Camaro in the Mustang range of 35xx lbs
If you want lite with power and handling buy a corvette. That isn't what the camaro.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:56 PM   #184
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Well, there are obviously changes and growth coming to the Camaro brand. "Evolution". The current 5th Gen will be revered as one of the special model runs. Sure, it's opinion. But look at what went (oh my, Im already talking in past tense) into it! Look at "who" was involved in it and all you have to do is set it side by side with anything ever made. I'm sure the 6th Gen will be great as well. And progressive. It has to be in order to contribute to the Chevy family.

There will surely be a 6th Gen. Will it be admired in historical terms. My bet is it will. Just like the 1st and 2nd were lumped together.

I don't think I've ever seen a fan base as enthusiastic as the Gen 5. The 1969 set the bar pretty high, and will always be revered. But the Gen 5 has captured "IT" too. The Gen 5's will always be looked back upon with respect and, if I may say, AWE. And with the ZL1 preparing for launch, I'd say we are only halfway through this generation. Great time to be here to observe and participate. And, as FBod says, the 15 Disciples are on the calendar. Guess what that means?
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:58 PM   #185
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Yeah, all these supercars are super light.

Off the top of my head, there's the 3800 Audi R8 5.2, the 3700 lb Lamborghini Aventador, the 3600 lb Aston Martin One 77, and the 3500 lb Lexus LFA.
I'd like to raise a few other cars to attention...more closely related to the Camaro's layout...

There's the 3836lb Aston Virage 2+2, the 3800lb Audi RS5, the 3700lb M3, or the 3935lb Merc C63 AMG...

I've been saying all along the 5th-gen Camaro is competitive in terms of weight. There's nothing exceptionally heavy, or light about it when compared on the world stage.

Considering what fbodfather has said...

IF they are indeed working on a 6th gen Camaro, and IF said Camaro is actually based on the Alpha architecture that underpins the Cadillac ATS (to be revealed at 2012 NAIAS). Then it will be significantly smaller...by default loosing some weight...perhaps losing even more using expensive materials in high-end models.

If it looses weight I don't view it as a "fix"...because when you look at the cars listed above, I don't see an inherent "problem". I'll consider it a natural progression of automotive development. Similar to how we abandoned our land yachts of the 60s and 70s for smaller vehicles to help increase efficiency.

But I digress...regardless the reason for it, or perception on my part...smaller, more nimble Camaro = yay!

/mini-rant.

EDIT: For those worrying about the 5thgen not going anywhere soon - you're absolutely right. But this is a little corner of the website where we can suspend reality for the sake of conversation.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:01 PM   #186
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Looks like the 6th Gen will be coming out when I need a DD replacement. I wonder will be some of V6 of turbo I4 that will be the base engine? I don't think I need a V8 for a DD driving 50-60k like I do.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:10 PM   #187
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Looks like the 6th Gen will be coming out when I need a DD replacement. I wonder will be some of V6 of turbo I4 that will be the base engine? I don't think I need a V8 for a DD driving 50-60k like I do.
I would look closely at the ATS. That is...if the 6th generation Camaro is to share components with that car.

It starts out with a 190 hp I4, to a 270hp turbo 4, and then tops out with a 320(?)hp 3.6L V6. They claim a couple hundred pounds under the 3 series...which is about 3200. These engines will move that along quite nicely.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:14 PM   #188
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I would look closely at the ATS. That is...if the 6th generation Camaro is to share components with that car.

It starts out with a 190 hp I4, to a 270hp turbo 4, and then tops out with a 320(?)hp 3.6L V6. They claim a couple hundred pounds under the 3 series...which is about 3200. These engines will move that along quite nicely.
270hp at 3,200 pounds would be more than sufficient for me. Low 14s with 20s/30s city/highway mileage sounds about right.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:30 PM   #189
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I had a 470 rwhp full bolt on cam car that was turning 12.1 @ 116..please show me a cam only 5th gen in the 10s at stock weight...this I gotta see.
Here you go....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187554

A well prepped car. Maybe the first. For sure more to follow.

Edit: Oops, My bad the cars has ported heads too. Still impressive.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:49 PM   #190
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...didn't have time to go thru this thread - but let me say this:

Anything - ANYTHING - you read about a 6th Gen Camaro from "Insiders" should be taken with a grain of salt substitute. (that's worse that a grain of salt.....)

IF we are working on a 6th gen - you can believe that any info. is very proprietary and anyone that says they know what's going on (unless their last name is Reuss, Oppenheiser, Pilcher, Clark, Fitzpatrick, or a hand-ful of others - ) --- they're not being truthful.

Take that to the bank.

Now - I'm NOT saying we don't care about what you think - we do and that's why we travel and sit and talk with many of you one-on-one - and that's why we have our 15 Disciples (who will be visiting with us once again very shortly) -
By not reading this thread you did not miss much. I am sure you guys are aware of the weight issue and will do what you can at a Camaro price point. But please give us better visibility along with good looks and a real GPS. And if the Camaro gets smaller, can you keep it easy to work on? That may be asking too much.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:33 PM   #191
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Ehhh... Guy that lives in my area. His Camaro was in GM high tech. One of the fastest stock bottom end Camaros around. Has stock ported heads, ms3 cam, Moser 9", Fast 90/90, 1 3/4 Pacesetter & spray.

Now he just changed his set up with a bigger intake, ported 799 heads, & more spray. Should be running low 9's now! If anyone can update me on the fastest 5th gen 1/4 mile that's still using a LS3. NOT a LS9!

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Old 12-29-2011, 11:44 AM   #192
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Hello there Fbodfather!!

I can completely understand how you wouldn't have time to go through a thread like this...but just in case you get the time, or some members of the Camaro team get time a thread like this can be priceless because I feel it shows what your Camaro customer base wants.

If anything, going over the past 3 to 4 pages would be a good read on what people want from their next Gen Camaro. I have faith in you guys, and I know you work hard to make sure you deliever what you want...just don't pass up on this free and easy to get customer feedback!

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my comments.

I didn't have time to read thru the thread when I posted last evening.

I've since read the post (as I have been reading posts since we were working on the 4th gen)

I think it's safe to say that no other brand seeks more customer feedback than the Camaro (Team) -- that said, it's important to understand that the Camaro must appeal to a wide audience. We can't just address those who want to go fast in a straight line - nor can we just address those who want the car to handle like it's on rails - nor can we just address those who want a comfortable ride.............. What we DO know is that it MUST have head-turning style - and be recognizable as a Camaro......

..........we've known this for years and frankly, the 4th gen car was geared toward performance versus comfort -- and we saw how that ended.......

We will continue to read posts - we will continue to talk with our 15 Camaro Disciples - we'll meet with competitive-make owners - and those who own all generations of Camaro --- we'll attend dozens and dozens of Camaro/Firebird events..............and we'll make some hard decisions.....

What you CAN take to the bank: the Camaro Team is dedicated to bringing you the best Camaro possible (at a Chevrolet Price) -

and - again, I re-iterate: Anything you read about the 6th gen? Take it with a grain of salt substitute.......'cuz we ain't talkin!
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:40 PM   #193
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Fbodfather, I've enjoyed all 7 (5 bought new) of my Camaros thanks to you and the Camaro disciples. Number 8 and possibly last will be a Z/28. Please make the Gen5 lineup complete, a Z/28 will be the icing on the cake. If the next Camaro Summit is Gen5 Z/28 or move forward with the Gen6; Gen5 Z/28.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:13 PM   #194
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What you CAN take to the bank: the Camaro Team is dedicated to bringing you the best Camaro possible (at a Chevrolet Price) -
Thank you very much sir!!

Sure is great to see you here on the forums...can't wait to see what you guys bring in the future. In the meantime, the 5th gen is no doubt a great machine and I can't wait to see the ZL1 hit the streets very soon!

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Old 12-29-2011, 11:33 PM   #195
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and - again, I re-iterate: Anything you read about the 6th gen? Take it with a grain of salt substitute.......'cuz we ain't talkin!
I'm saving this for future 6th-gen panic du'jours.



My last little thought in here for a while...

We KNOW the team knows how to build a fast-as-heck 2+2 coupe. They've proven that time and time again with this 5th generation. So I'm not worried about performance.

And now we know (reminded, more like it) they're perfectly aware of the need for a killer design and affordable price.

Any worries I could have had have been set to bed. Thank you Fbodfather, now I'm just going to enjoy the ride!!!
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:46 AM   #196
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Anything - ANYTHING - you read about a 6th Gen Camaro from "Insiders" should be taken with a grain of salt substitute. (that's worse that a grain of salt.....)

and that's why we have our 15 Disciples (who will be visiting with us once again very shortly) -
Quote:
Originally Posted by htron50 View Post
And, as FBod says, the 15 Disciples are on the calendar. Guess what that means?
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I'm saving this for future 6th-gen panic du'jours.

:
I would love to be in some of those meetings Scott, but I am happy just to know you are involved in some way and the disciples will be beckoned again to Detroit.

And Dragoneye, remember this very thread in a couple years when so many "insiders" will be telling all of us what they know about 6th Gen. I seem to remember a lot of info a few years ago about the 5th that was only partially accurate.:notheadlights:
This will only get more interesting as it snowballs out of control!
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:54 AM   #197
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I would love to be in some of those meetings Scott, but I am happy just to know you are involved in some way and the disciples will be beckoned again to Detroit.

And Dragoneye, remember this very thread in a couple years when so many "insiders" will be telling all of us what they know about 6th Gen. I seem to remember a lot of info a few years ago about the 5th that was only partially accurate.:notheadlights:
This will only get more interesting as it snowballs out of control!
You meannnn......thing like:

"The production car has FAT side mirrors"

"The headlights look NOTHING like the concept!!"

"The engine's going to be the 367hp 6.0L out of the G8"

"The SS won't be cheaper than $35,000. My 4th gen SS cost me 34k!!!"

"It's going to be as tall as a G8"

"V6 will be 250hp out of the Impala"

"The Car lost all its body lines!!"

"It's going to have 21" wheels"

.....among others.......

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Old 12-30-2011, 09:25 AM   #198
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:05 PM   #199
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I have a lot of faith in GM and anticipate a repeat of the Gen1/Gen2 transition. Two great models that were totally different. The cool thing is the Gen5 as already without a doubt but it's mark in car styling history. We're driving living legends !!!!!
+1! To quote Carly Simon, these are the good old days! Well, at least the second round of them! :-)
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:24 PM   #200
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Ehhh... Guy that lives in my area. His Camaro was in GM high tech. One of the fastest stock bottom end Camaros around. Has stock ported heads, ms3 cam, Moser 9", Fast 90/90, 1 3/4 Pacesetter & spray.

Now he just changed his set up with a bigger intake, ported 799 heads, & more spray. Should be running low 9's now! If anyone can update me on the fastest 5th gen 1/4 mile that's still using a LS3. NOT a LS9!

That is nice man.
Where are you from in SB?
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2013 AGM 2SS/RS M6. Hurst, NPP exhaust, nav | CMS Custom Grind Cam, Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers & high-flow cats, CAI intake | Pfadt 1.25" springs | Tuned by Ryne @ CMS 483rwhp 433rwtq (mustang dyno)
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