[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Also don't forget neutral idle. Car shifts into neutral when brake is applied and car is stopped for more than 1 second.

autos have come a long way then. lol

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

in a manual as well?

That I'm not positive on. I think if you are in gear and coasting, i.e. you lift your foot off the throttle then yes. But I'm not sure. Automatics I'm sure of.

I do know in discussions with real experts that they could never understand how customers would tolerate the crappy drivability of certain Japanese makes that were very aggressive with FSO. Apparently the experts could tell where most customers didn't know the difference. But the EPA test could tell the difference.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

I think the biggest reason for the 2.0T is for overseas consumers, than anything else.

GM really doesnt seem serious on marketing and selling the Camaro overseas, it failed terribly in the last few years it was offered there.

The 2.0T is being offered for a few reasons...to help GM's CAFE rating, keeping the price of entry low and for fleet sales.

Yes, fleet sales are just as important to the Camaro as they are to the Mustang.

[BigShow1960]

I've got a scan gauge on my M6. When coasting to a stop in gear the gauge indicates 999999 MPG which is code indicating that the engine is not consuming and fuel. Coasting in Neutral will indicate something like 84 MPG depending on how fast your coasting. In modern cars you consume less fuel while coasting to a stop in gear.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

I think the biggest reason for the 2.0T is for overseas consumers, than anything else.

The 2.0 generally falls into the lower tax rate. 3.0 would be better than 3.6 in those same countries.

Also, I am curious as to the later launch of the 2.0T. Would suggest that the 2.0T is not critical to the importance of the car at launch.

Also not sure if the LS comes back then with the 2.0T??

And I do have a slight fear that GM is trying to perhaps drive the Camaro up-market. There was a lot of content shown last weekend. Not clear as to what is standard and what is optional. Much more to come I'm sure.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

in a manual as well?

Yes

[SpeedIsLife]

It looks like the LS is done, the playbook says it will not be offered.

Looks like...

LT-2.0T standard, V6 optional. No longer 3 sub-models (LS, LT and SS)

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by BigShow1960

I've got a scan gauge on my M6. When coasting to a stop in gear the gauge indicates 999999 MPG which is code indicating that the engine is not consuming and fuel. Coasting in Neutral will indicate something like 84 MPG depending on how fast your coasting. In modern cars you consume less fuel while coasting to a stop in gear.

well that's just some bass ackward stuff right there!

[JaxChris]

You are forgetting that automatics get a smaller rear end. A 2.73 rear is going to turn the wheels almost 20% more than a 3.27 rear with everything else being equal. And today manual gearboxes are only about 5% more efficient than automatics. In this scenario, if a specific vehicle with manual transmission makes 30mpg highway, then the automatic version would made 28.5mpg with the same rear end and 34.2mpg highway with a smaller rear end.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

You are forgetting that automatics get a smaller rear end. A 2.73 rear is going to turn the wheels almost 20% more than a 3.27 rear with everything else being equal. And today manual gearboxes are only about 5% more efficient than automatics. In this scenario, if a specific vehicle with manual transmission makes 30mpg highway, then the automatic version would made 28.5mpg with the same rear end and 34.2mpg highway with a smaller rear end.

Yes, there have typically been different gears for the auto vs manual, but in your math you are not taking into account the gear ratios in the transmissions...

For instance, the 8L90 if I'm looking at the correct specs here, has a 4.56:1 first gear ratio. That's NUTS!

A TR6060 manual has a 3.01 first gear ratio. A current 6l80 has a 4.027 first gear ratio.

The manual has lower (numerically higher) gears to compensate for it's higher (numerically lower) first few gears to kind of "equal out" the lower first few gear ratios of the automatic. Also because of these gear differences (or just how it ended up, I'm not sure), the manual TR6060 has a higher 6th gear ratio of 0.57:1, where as the 6l80 has a 0.667:1.

The 8l90 has a 0.65 ratio for eighth gear. That kind of bums me out really, just more gears between first gear and final gear... Great for racing assuming all the shifting doesn't slow you down, I was hoping 8th gear would have a similar ratio to the TR6060.

So based on current 5th gen drivetrain availability, the final drive ratio in OD on the freeway for the manual transmission car is 1.9665:1, while the automatic is 2.1811

Even though the automatic has a "smaller" rear end as you say (gear ratio wise), in theory on the highway the manual with it's "bigger" rear end should mathematically get better fuel mileage.

I really don't expect to see any gear lower than something like s 3.08 in the automatic SS, it may even get 2.92s because that first gear in the 8L90 is SOOO LOW!!! Manual transmission v8, I would say somewhere between 3.27 and 3.45. So if the auto WERE to get 2.92s because of the low first few gears of the 8L90, in 8th gear, it would then have a final drive ratio of 1.898 and would in theory get better highway fuel mileage than the manual with 3.45's

*EDIT* I just looked up the c7 a8 gears, looks like 2.41 for non Z51 cars, and 2.73 for Z51 cars. But it looks like it's ~500-6/700 lbs lighter than the Camaro depending on engine and trim, I don't know if the Camaro could get away with 2.41's being that much heavier???

[GretchenGotGrowl]

I'm guessing

2.0T = 22/32
3.6 = 22/31
6.2 = 17/26

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I'm guessing

2.0T = 22/32
3.6 = 22/31
6.2 = 17/26

I think this seems pretty close.

Only thing I would disagree on is the 3.6 city MPG. According to Chevy, the current V-6 is 17/28. I don't see how they could squeeze and extra 5MPG city driving out of the car even with all the changes

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think this seems pretty close.

Only thing I would disagree on is the 3.6 city MPG. According to Chevy, the current V-6 is 17/28. I don't see how they could squeeze and extra 5MPG city driving out of the car even with all the changes

I'm guessing they will have something like the 1LS (even if it is just an option for the LT) which gets 19/30 MPG in the 5th Gen. Combining that with stop/start (if they implement that in the 6th Gen) and losing 200 lbs, maybe we will see a 3 MPG bump for city. Probably wishful thinking though.

[xgnxs]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

Yes, there have typically been different gears for the auto vs manual, but in your math you are not taking into account the gear ratios in the transmissions...

For instance, the 8L90 if I'm looking at the correct specs here, has a 4.56:1 first gear ratio. That's NUTS!

A TR6060 manual has a 3.01 first gear ratio. A current 6l80 has a 4.027 first gear ratio.

The manual has lower (numerically higher) gears to compensate for it's higher (numerically lower) first few gears to kind of "equal out" the lower first few gear ratios of the automatic. Also because of these gear differences (or just how it ended up, I'm not sure), the manual TR6060 has a higher 6th gear ratio of 0.57:1, where as the 6l80 has a 0.667:1.

The 8l90 has a 0.65 ratio for eighth gear. That kind of bums me out really, just more gears between first gear and final gear... Great for racing assuming all the shifting doesn't slow you down, I was hoping 8th gear would have a similar ratio to the TR6060.

So based on current 5th gen drivetrain availability, the final drive ratio in OD on the freeway for the manual transmission car is 1.9665:1, while the automatic is 2.1811

Even though the automatic has a "smaller" rear end as you say (gear ratio wise), in theory on the highway the manual with it's "bigger" rear end should mathematically get better fuel mileage.

I really don't expect to see any gear lower than something like s 3.08 in the automatic SS, it may even get 2.92s because that first gear in the 8L90 is SOOO LOW!!! Manual transmission v8, I would say somewhere between 3.27 and 3.45. So if the auto WERE to get 2.92s because of the low first few gears of the 8L90, in 8th gear, it would then have a final drive ratio of 1.898 and would in theory get better highway fuel mileage than the manual with 3.45's

*EDIT* I just looked up the c7 a8 gears, looks like 2.41 for non Z51 cars, and 2.73 for Z51 cars. But it looks like it's ~500-6/700 lbs lighter than the Camaro depending on engine and trim, I don't know if the Camaro could get away with 2.41's being that much heavier???

From http://www.*********media.com/produc...aro-specs.html

The TR6060 that the 6th gen SS gets has the following gear ratios: 1st - 2.66 2nd - 1.78 3rd - 1.30 4th - 1.00 5th - .74 6th - .5 with 3.73 gears.

The automatic gear ratios are also listed on that site.