[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by strych9

354 CID, to be exact.

They removed the cast-iron liners and coated the cylinders instead.

The aluminium 5.4 used in the 2011/12 GT500 never had cast iron liners. They used a cylinder bore coating system they developed called the Plasma Transferred Wire Arc (PTWA) process.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/08/2...e-loses-120-p/

[JimmyDeanSausage]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

---and you'd know this because you sat in how many Ford Product Planning meetings???

Ford said exactly what he's saying, no need to sit in on a product planning meeting.

[cbass]

Originally Posted by 97SS

lol, so funny too read excuse, after excuse....

This is such a dead topic now.

No excuse. Just reality.

I never said the ZL1 was going to be faster around the track did I?

Let's be honest here. Less horsepower + more weight + IRS. Did you really expect the ZL1 to beat a GT500 at the strip?

Even at the track the ZL1 is the heavier car and that will have an effect on it. Ford has done well with the SRA and it can make it handle. It can go either way.

The reality though is that IRS + Magnetic ride is better for ride quality on a daily driver and pot hole ridden streets.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

Both cars, same driver, same track, same day. That is the only way to measure them objectively. I can't wait to see that. Until then this is a bunch of Marketing BS.

so you don't think a Z06 is faster than a Grand Sport unless they line up vs each other? Marketing BS is 100% right...you bought into it though, didn't you?

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by JimmyDeanSausage

Ford said exactly what he's saying, no need to sit in on a product planning meeting.

Yes - as a matter of fact, one would have to sit in a product planning meeting - because what is said publicly isn't necessarily the whole story.

The auto industry is a very interesting business - and frankly, it's incestuous -- some people do happen to jump from company to company - and from supplier to supplier.

[Macvicar24]

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

Now before you go closing this thread, I own ZL1 (#52) and am very happy with the performance given the price. I will not be selling my ZL1, and will drive it proudly and am still excited every time I step in the driver’s seat. But with the recent release of the GT500 performance, I must say, the ZL1 has been bitch slapped right across the face. I expected the new GT500 to beat it in the quarter; however, I did not expect mags to be getting an 11.5 quarter with over 125 MPH traps. Furthermore, the GT500 seems to have outperformed the ZL1 in EVERY category which is something I definitely did not expect. Braking, skip pad, weight, gas milage, even the LC feature seems to one up the ZL1. Yes I realize the fully optioned/tested GT500 is $64k vs. the comparable equipped ZL1 at $55k, but damn, I wish we still had something to hold onto to. I wish GM would offer a factory performance upgrade that still keeps warranty intact. Maybe a pulley swap and tune at the least? While I still agree the GT500 is nowhere near as stylish as the ZL1 (still subjective, although sales pretty much show the general public prefers the looks of the Camaro over the Mustang), it is NOT on the same level in terms of performance. Given that I own a ZL1 I wish it was, but the truth is, it’s not.
Mods – Before you close this post, realize this is coming from a ZL1 owner who cannot stand the looks of a Mustang, but can certainly respect what the have done in terms of answering GM’s ZL1.

GM just needs to come out with an option that matches the GT500 price of $64k. It's called an LS9. GM could tweak the power to match the GT500 and things could be a little more even.

Curious what the GT500 times would be stock (w/o optional coolers, rear diff, and track pack)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slowbra1]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

And why the heck not? It's the reason I'm buying the ZL1. I'll be taking it to the road course so I want the best all around car in my price range.

Shelby's 2 position dampers vs. ZL1's MRC? The ZL1 will be extremely difficult for the 2013 shelby to beat on almost any road track. We've seen some road course times for the ZL1 and they are pretty damn good. So we know its not just hype or theoretical.

I think on long road courses the GT500 stock vs ZL1 stock has an edge, maybe on short courses the ZL1 may have the edge.

I don't know why anyone would want to road race with a blower car, I would rather have an NA car myself.

We will have to wait for the head to head to be sure.

[SVT Murrocket]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

---and you'd know this because you sat in how many Ford Product Planning meetings???




Lots of conjecture in this thread.

Yes - the ZL1 was meant to take on the GT-500 --

Yes - the ZL1 was meant to take on BMW and many other cars

-- and the proof of this is a lap around Nurburgring..........or any other road course.......

I suspect (...notice I said 'suspect'.....) that the ZL1 will beat the Pony around a road course - and the Pony will be a bit faster in the quarter mile -- BUT -- as several people have pointed out: The Driver will make a difference........

Competition is good......it gets you most of what you ask for!

No - the Pony is a LOT faster than the ZL1 in the quarter. It's more than a half second faster - that is a LOT. Do you know how many car lengths that is? The ZL1 might be a "bit" faster on a road course. We shall see...

The "driver's race" you speak of is between a 2012 Pony and ZL1 - not a 2013 Pony. It's no contest in a straight line. None. Sorry - those are the facts.

Still doesn't take anything away form the ZL1 as it's a very nice car. It's also plenty fast - just not as fast through the quarter or top speed as the SHELBY.

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

so you don't think a Z06 is faster than a Grand Sport unless they line up vs each other? Marketing BS is 100% right...you bought into it though, didn't you?

Not sure I understand either of your points. When did a GS and a Z06 become competitors? As for me buying into marketing BS, what are you talking about? If you are going to comment, please try to make sense.

[BATMAN!]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

Not sure I understand either of your points. When did a GS and a Z06 become competitors? As for me buying into marketing BS, what are you talking about? If you are going to comment, please try to make sense.

Made sense to me.

[SVT Murrocket]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

Several things about this thread confuse me.

First, why are all of the Mustang people on here? I know it is the internet and all but this is a Camaro site.

I am a car enthusiast that just happens to favor Chevrolets.

I own a ZL1 now and have owned 2 previous 5th gen Camaros (a 2010 and then a 2011, both were SS).

I am happy for any Mustang owner, or future owner, that feels the same way about their car and I do mine. I love the fact the competition is alive and well, as it is good for both companies and their customers.

I do not prefer the Mustang. I think the new GT500 has some issues that will be revealed over time. I think the fact that the car does not have a front grill is an engineering oversight that had to be accounted for with the dramtic step of having to remove it. I would bet the styling guys at Ford through a major hissy-fit but got over-ruled because the engineers couldn't keep the car cool. This big hole is ugly. This is just my opinion, but I know a little about automotive engineering programs. If were a Ford fan I would be stoked about the Mustang. I'm just not a Ford fan (and I worked for them for 9 years...).

The debate between these two cars, at least in my mind, has never been about 1/4 performance. Who really cares about that? If I did I certainly would not have purchased a ZL1. Not a good value with 1/4 mile perfromance as a goal and a car that cost $60K out the door.

This compariosn should be about overall vehicle performance, acceleration, grip, braking,steering, shifting, etc. etc. That, in my mind, can only be measured, in total, on a road course. Nurburgring is used by many OEM's to measure and establish perfromance metrics for the performance car segment. No, I will never drive on the Nurburgring, but it is a really good measure for a vehicle's overall performance. Potential buyers use this kind of data to help make a vehicle purchase decision (at least I do). I have heard that Ford has been to the Ring several times yet no numbers have been presented yet. Why is that? It can't be raining every day that they are there. What gives?

It would be really good to get a professional driver on the same road course with the both cars on the same day. Until that happens this whole debate means nothing to me. Laguna Seca, VIR, Road Atlanta or similar would be good choices. Let's line them up and see what they do.

1/4 mile performance should go to the Mustang. I would still like to see both cars at the same track on the same day with the same driver.

Both cars, same driver, same track, same day. That is the only way to measure them objectively. I can't wait to see that. Until then this is a bunch of Marketing BS.

Soon you will get your wish.

You're entitled to your opinion but it pains me to see the following comment from anyone who drives a MUSCLE CAR - especially from one who drives one with the lineage of a ZL1..."The debate between these two cars, at least in my mind, has never been about 1/4 performance. Who really cares about that?"
Really??? Who cares about that??? Wow...

[GoldenBear]

It's not the 1960s anymore (and it hasn't been for many more years than I'd care to count) when "muscle cars" were judged mostly on straight line performance.

For many, today's high performance vehicles, which is how I'd classify the new ZL1, are measured by much more than straight line performance. For those individuals, today's high performance vehicles have to be very good at many things, not simply one thing.

For many today, straight line performance in high performance vehicles comes second or third, in terms of priority. Many people expect their high performance vehicles to be extremely comfortable as a daily driver on today's less than perfectly maintained public roads, to be able to post impressive times on a road course without having to makes any modifications to the vehicles, and to be quick in a straight line, and in that order.

For those who only care about straight line performance, the ZL1 may not be the right vehicle for them, but for those who want an overall high performance vehicle that will perform well in all aspects of performance driving and styling right off the showroom floor, the ZL1 may well be an excellent choice.

[slowbra1]

Originally Posted by JJ-ZL1

Is Ford going to get hit with a GG tax?

No

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by SVT Murrocket

Soon you will get your wish.

You're entitled to your opinion but it pains me to see the following comment from anyone who drives a MUSCLE CAR - especially from one who drives one with the lineage of a ZL1..."The debate between these two cars, at least in my mind, has never been about 1/4 performance. Who really cares about that?"
Really??? Who cares about that??? Wow...

If I was interested in 1/4 mile performance I would have continued to modify my SS and for a lot less money put a stock ZL1 or 2013 Shelby to shame. For me, it's really not a measure that I put much stock in. It is relatively easy to obtain straight line perfromance. I think you would agree with this. That is really my point. The 2013 Shelby deserve some credit for what should be better straight line performance. It's a pretty simple power to weight ratio. For me, it does not matter. It doesn't make me regret my purchase one bit.