[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by MR-02

Two reasons Camaro sales have been so low and there WILL NEVER be a Gen 7 , and regrettably so....

#1 The cold fart-can obnoxious start-up instead of the deep rumble it should have, like the gen 5 had.
#2 The mushy squishy unresponsive throttle

*Exhaust Sound and throttle response the two most primal/desirable interfaces of the driving experience.....both of those are less desirable than what the gen 5 had---you know its true.

You're right, it has nothing to do with the luke-warm reception of the 2016's initial refresh, or their almost complete lack of advertising lol

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by MR-02

Two reasons Camaro sales have been so low and there WILL NEVER be a Gen 7 , and regrettably so....

#1 The cold fart-can obnoxious start-up instead of the deep rumble it should have, like the gen 5 had.
#2 The mushy squishy unresponsive throttle

*Exhaust Sound and throttle response the two most primal/desirable interfaces of the driving experience.....both of those are less desirable than what the gen 5 had---you know its true.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by MR-02

Two reasons Camaro sales have been so low and there WILL NEVER be a Gen 7 , and regrettably so....

#1 The cold fart-can obnoxious start-up instead of the deep rumble it should have, like the gen 5 had.
#2 The mushy squishy unresponsive throttle

*Exhaust Sound and throttle response the two most primal/desirable interfaces of the driving experience.....both of those are less desirable than what the gen 5 had---you know its true.

Interesting, I would have never thought these two reasons would make the list.

I expected to see poor visibility, small trunk opening, unusable back seat, lack of advertising. I don't have those issues you listed on my ZL1 but if you find those to be an issue with your car you can fix them.

#1 - Swap out the exhaust for one with a difference tone that you prefer.
#2 - Buy one of those throttle controllers that let you dial in the throttle response you prefer.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Interesting, I would have never thought these two reasons would make the list.

I expected to see poor visibility, small trunk opening, unusable back seat, lack of advertising. I don't have those issues you listed on my ZL1 but if you find those to be an issue with your car you can fix them.

#1 - Swap out the exhaust for one with a difference tone that you prefer.
#2 - Buy one of those throttle controllers that let you dial in the throttle response you prefer.

Well, the usual counterargument is that the car has to be good in stock form, because most people don't want to mod their cars, which does have merit. After all, 95% of the "bad visibility" can be fixed by proper and trivial mirror adjustment, the problem even got rendered meaningless by the new camera mirror, yet everyone still kept harping on that one.

(Also, of course, a salesman would have a mightly hard time applying changes to dealership cars to make better first impressions).

[ste1n]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think most enthusiasts will like it at first, appreciate the smoothness and NVH benefits but then once the novelty wears off they will be longing for something with more character and driving engagement. That has been my experience so far but to each their own.

This right here perfectly summarizes my Model 3 LR ownership. I traded my '19 2SS for a 2021 Model 3 Long Range back in May. Drove it for 7 months and 14k miles. My Camaro was a riot to drive. It was a 10 speed, had magna ride option and had full Corsa Xtreme exhaust with secondary cat removal (Btw this is for sale if anyone is interested).

As you can imagine it didn't take long for me realize what have I done after trading the Camaro in lol. 2 weeks ago I finally traded Model 3 for a BMW M340i Xdrive. This is my 1st euro car. So far I like it but it is a little bit too quiet for my taste. I have ordered a downpipe and will be ordering some aftermarket exhaust as well in the future.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by ste1n

This right here perfectly summarizes my Model 3 LR ownership. I traded my '19 2SS for a 2021 Model 3 Long Range back in May. Drove it for 7 months and 14k miles. My Camaro was a riot to drive. It was a 10 speed, had magna ride option and had full Corsa Xtreme exhaust with secondary cat removal (Btw this is for sale if anyone is interested).

As you can imagine it didn't take long for me realize what have I done after trading the Camaro in lol. 2 weeks ago I finally traded Model 3 for a BMW M340i Xdrive. This is my 1st euro car. So far I like it but it is a little bit too quiet for my taste. I have ordered a downpipe and will be ordering some aftermarket exhaust as well in the future.

I enjoy trading out cars every 2-3 years just to experience and enjoy them but I feel like we are running out of cool cars to experience. I guess it will save me from spending more money.

I know this ZL1 is a good one because if I don't drive it for a week and then take it for a spin it puts a smile on my face. Literally driving a race car around town, it is a riot.

[Number 3]

As they say, slim and none and slim has his bags packed.

Only hope is the name continues and it’s a product that does that name justice. For me? That could be a well executed EV, but here that is the minority opinion.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

As they say, slim and none and slim has his bags packed.

Only hope is the name continues and it’s a product that does that name justice. For me? That could be a well executed EV, but here that is the minority opinion.

I am open to a performance EV from GM but they better find a way to make it fun to drive. They will need something with character to compete against the upcoming Dodge eMuscle. However, based on what I have seen so far any desirable EV that GM launches will cost over $100k. $105k for a Silverado RST pick up, I almost fell out of my chair. A lot of people are going to get past the ugly looks of the Tesla Cybertruck if they really do launch a quad motor, 500 mile range, 4-wheel steering truck that goes 0-60mph in 2.9 sec for $70-80k.

[ste1n]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I enjoy trading out cars every 2-3 years just to experience and enjoy them but I feel like we are running out of cool cars to experience. I guess it will save me from spending more money.

I know this ZL1 is a good one because if I don't drive it for a week and then take it for a spin it puts a smile on my face. Literally driving a race car around town, it is a riot.

I love ZL1 and thought about getting one but wanted to try something different. My ultimate goal is either a Porsche or a C8 Z06. Unfortunately neither of them in my budget right now and I don't think they will be for a very long time like a decade or so lol.

[MightyBobo]

Here's the thing: Chevy made a great car with the Camaro. It did more with less than the Mustang for SO long, and they went blow for blow, and still do. They are both great driving machines now, and we all won for it. Sadly, when it came to marketing and desire, Mustang just won out.

The Mopar offerings are bloated, but can fit taller, bigger (read: "husky") dudes better. The interiors and tech on them are pretty solid now, as well. And they have the whole "HEMI" name backing them up, even if it's pointless. Their advertising game is STRONG, and appeal directly toward the type that buys them successfully. Way better than Ford and Chevy, and the sale show it.

But in the end, despite being a fantastic driver's car, the Camaro just can't beat the others. And the time seems ripe to go with the wave of EV excitement, whether we like it or not, and develop a (hopefully) fun sports car.

Enjoy your Camaros now, while we have them. And maybe, just maybe, it's EV replacement won't be as lame as some people seem to expect.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

As they say, slim and none and slim has his bags packed.

Only hope is the name continues and it’s a product that does that name justice. For me? That could be a well executed EV, but here that is the minority opinion.

I'd imagine the majority has no stake in GM, so continuing the name no matter what isn't very popular for good reason: this name stands for something, there is no need to bastardize it like Ford did theirs. If the successor is an EV, give it a good new space age name, don't crap on the Camaro nameplate.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by nitrojedi

I think the climate change hysteria was in reality an outside funded attack on North American/Western industry. Many plants today evolved to use higher levels of C02 then is currently available, we are at one of the lowest points of atmospheric C02 in the planets history, any lower and some plant species will die off, most plants can use triple what's currently available without any issue and the increase in growth rate is explosive

Technically, the whole climate change deal is worse for developing countries since they need to emit a lot of CO2 so they can grow their economy, but now they can't emit so they can't grow their economy. Most developed nations already did that back when no one gave a crap.

My issue is that, again, like in that video I posted in another thread, individual action doesn't do crap, and anything that will meaningfully impact the climate positively will leave the current societies in turmoils. Then there is the fact that, indeed, some people have been making money/fame off of climate change/global warming, so it's turning into a "the boy that cried wolf" situation, at least to me. So, I stopped caring. Life is too bloody short to worry about matters out of your control.

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Precisely, so the current banter is what the heck will be available post 2023/2024 from GM. It looks like you would need to go buy a C8 or something used if you want a GM enthusiast product.

Dodge is talking the same stuff for 2024 with their eMuscle cars. Hellcats end of sale next year. Ford is already out of the picture as far as I am concerned. The only decent Mustang is the GT500 and it is way overpriced.

The most exciting enthusiast car on the horizon outside the C8 Z06 is the Nissan Z with a 400hp twin turbo and a manual trans. It has literally going from being one of the best times for enthusiast cars to one of the worst. Maybe there will be exciting EVs at some point but not for years until battery production ramps up and costs come down from selling EV Blazers, Equinox and Silverados. Furthermore, manufacturers have some proving to do with their first generation EVs.

This train of thought is why I went and bought a ZL1 at MSRP.

I wonder how the Dodge crowd is handling that news. Actually, I shudder to think about that.

And you are right, the Golden Age is ending just as quickly as it came.

Originally Posted by MR-02

Two reasons Camaro sales have been so low and there WILL NEVER be a Gen 7 , and regrettably so....

#1 The cold fart-can obnoxious start-up instead of the deep rumble it should have, like the gen 5 had.
#2 The mushy squishy unresponsive throttle

*Exhaust Sound and throttle response the two most primal/desirable interfaces of the driving experience.....both of those are less desirable than what the gen 5 had---you know its true.

I have literally heard no one complain about those. Not even forum-goers consider those as deal-breakers or compromises.

Casual buyers have no idea of what you are even talking about.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I am open to a performance EV from GM but they better find a way to make it fun to drive. They will need something with character to compete against the upcoming Dodge eMuscle. However, based on what I have seen so far any desirable EV that GM launches will cost over $100k. $105k for a Silverado RST pick up, I almost fell out of my chair. A lot of people are going to get past the ugly looks of the Tesla Cybertruck if they really do launch a quad motor, 500 mile range, 4-wheel steering truck that goes 0-60mph in 2.9 sec for $70-80k.

So now no one likes EVs but somehow eMuscle Dodge is the car to beat. We know nothing about the Dodge but a smoky image.

Trust me, if GM does an electric Camaro, it will be very interesting.

Also not sure where you got 4 motor 500 miles range pickup from Tesla for 70 to 80 grand. Was that announced? A Model S P100D is well North of $100,000 and no Tesla has a 500 mile range yet. Only Lucid has done that in production.

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I'd imagine the majority has no stake in GM, so continuing the name no matter what isn't very popular for good reason: this name stands for something, there is no need to bastardize it like Ford did theirs. If the successor is an EV, give it a good new space age name, don't crap on the Camaro nameplate.

We will differ in opinions on this. There is nothing that says if GM does an awesome EV that it can't be a Camaro.

Camaro is simply a sportY personal coupe. It's what the Pony Car is. From the interwebs - The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image.

Yes, variants over time took on more HP and handling to the point where GM has recently marketed the Camaro as BOTH a Muscle car AND a Sports car. Go figure.

If they make an engaging, fun to drive great coupe, I have no problem carrying the name over. Now if they put it on an SUV like Ford did or on a Chevy sedan as rumored, NOPE!

If they do it the way I hope they do, it will simply enhance the name and heritage.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes, variants over time took on more HP and handling to the point where GM has recently marketed the Camaro as BOTH a Muscle car AND a Sports car. Go figure.

Huh?

It's been marketed that way since 1967. The 302 was specifically designed for SCCA racing and the 396 was put in for NHRA racing/street muscle.