[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Dude, please stop making sense. That’s not what this thread is for.

This forum needs a like button

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Toyota and Honda seem to do just that. Streets around here seem to be littered with RAV4s and CRVs (many are hybrids, GM has no answer). If full size trucks and SUVs struggle, not sure what GM would do other than look to the tax payer again.

Even Toyota isn’t doing just the bare minimum. The new Tacoma and 4Runner offer a hybrid powertrain. The Tacoma even has an optional 4 link suspension for the top off road variants.

Would GM have lost a ton of money if the new Blazer was built off the Colorado chassis? Maybe, maybe not. They could have still sold the Blazer as another badge and still made that money. With the popularity of the 4Runner, a GM option would likely do well. The Bronco shows there is a market, but GM chose not to pursue it.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

The final sentence you wrote is exactly why she’s been a successful CEO. It would lose the company money (because the resources could be used on another bland vehicle development for the masses that would be more profitable) if she green lighted something cool like a 7th Gen V8 Camaro, Chevy SS/Chevelle remake, Silverado with an LT4, etc. There just aren’t enough buyers for those types of vehicles. If we think Camaro sales are bad go look at Supra, Nissan Z, etc sales. It’s even less. There just aren’t many buyers for 50+k sporty cars anymore.

If I were a board member with a lot of shares in the company and she presents to me a slide with profit/loses by each vehicle in the lineup and I saw how small the profit was on the Camaro/CT4/5 I’d ask her why. After she tells me why I’d tell her she better drop it from the lineup and make something more people want if she wants to keep her job as would the rest of the members. It’s just the unfortunate truth.

The only way a car company can make multiple cool enthusiast products is if they either don’t go public and/or charge a high amount for each vehicle (Porsche for example).

In GM'S case I believe an element or two were missed. The first element is innovation. GM used to be seen as innovators in the automotive field. Remember these examples? The Golden Chevrolet, Corvette; Oldsmobile Toronado, Buick Riviera, Pontiac Tempest GTO, Chevelle, Gran Sport, 442. All of these examples signaled leadership in the field with innovation. Innovation in technology, design, appeal and attracxtion of the masses. This is an element that is no longer apparent in GM's products; At least in the magnitude that once was in ALL of GM.

The second element that seems to be missing is enthusiasm, in the form of excitement, lust, aspiration. Long gone from the company's portfolio are products that used to inspire all of these feelings of enthusiasm. From the innocence of Chevelle, the sense of upward mobility from Buick and Oldsmobile, the sense of achievement from Cadillac. For specific models, the mystery of desire and lust from Caprice!, Impala, Wildcat, Electra 225.

The last element missed is the sense of effortless logic and timeless style; Properly exemplified by Oldsmobile Cutlass, Buick Century, and later Chevrolet Monte Carlo.

It is the essential absence of these aspects that has GM in its predicament right now. There is little that is special with GM's portfolio, and anyone can buy products from its competitors that can match and even excel with current goals of today's car market. I am afraid that if GM continues with its current business "think" it will one day face extinction, being shut out of business, much the same way as once great businesses have now been shuttered in other markets. Think of the late, great Sears, Roebuck and Co., JCPenney, and many of their contemporaries being wiped out of existence by competitors with better and more profitable business plans: Amazon, Costco, WalMart.

Interesting to ponder.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by lbls1

In GM'S case I believe an element or two were missed. The first element is innovation. GM used to be seen as innovators in the automotive field. Remember these examples? The Golden Chevrolet, Corvette; Oldsmobile Toronado, Buick Riviera, Pontiac Tempest GTO, Chevelle, Gran Sport, 442. All of these examples signaled leadership in the field with innovation. Innovation in technology, design, appeal and attracxtion of the masses. This is an element that is no longer apparent in GM's products; At least in the magnitude that once was in ALL of GM.

The second element that seems to be missing is enthusiasm, in the form of excitement, lust, aspiration. Long gone from the company's portfolio are products that used to inspire all of these feelings of enthusiasm. From the innocence of Chevelle, the sense of upward mobility from Buick and Oldsmobile, the sense of achievement from Cadillac. For specific models, the mystery of desire and lust from Caprice!, Impala, Wildcat, Electra 225.

The last element missed is the sense of effortless logic and timeless style; Properly exemplified by Oldsmobile Cutlass, Buick Century, and later Chevrolet Monte Carlo.

It is the essential absence of these aspects that has GM in its predicament right now. There is little that is special with GM's portfolio, and anyone can buy products from its competitors that can match and even excel with current goals of today's car market. I am afraid that if GM continues with its current business "think" it will one day face extinction, being shut out of business, much the same way as once great businesses have now been shuttered in other markets. Think of the late, great Sears, Roebuck and Co., JCPenney, and many of their contemporaries being wiped out by competitors with better and more profitable business plans: Amazon, Costco, WalMart.

Interesting to ponder.

You hit the nail on the head. Innovation. Excitement. Desire by people to want your products. Every division used to have something people had to have or at least desired even if they couldn’t afford it.

Outside of the Corvette there’s not a single car GM makes now that anyone gives a damn about. Cadillac Blackwing V’s are unknown to anyone but enthusiasts and those are going away too.

Just more boring inverted electric toasters sailing around silently is all GM will be in the next few years.

But Queen Mary is not the tree huggers sycophant. Or so certain members of this forum want to keep telling me.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by olrocker

You hit the nail on the head. Innovation. Excitement. Desire by people to want your products. Every division used to have something people had to have or at least desired even if they couldn’t afford it.

Outside of the Corvette there’s not a single car GM makes now that anyone gives a damn about. Cadillac Blackwing V’s are unknown to anyone but enthusiasts and those are going away too.

Just more boring inverted electric toasters sailing around silently is all GM will be in the next few years.

But Queen Mary is not the tree huggers sycophant. Or so certain members of this forum want to keep telling me.

Thank you for this. I didn't want to be this direct, but your comments are essentially true. If I don't like equinox, blazer, Terrain, then there's nothing stopping me from buying a Rav4, CSX, Mazda or Acura. I'm not even delving into Kia and the others. All are boring and anonymous and doesn't inspire driving at all.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by lbls1

Thank you for this. I didn't want to be this direct, but your comments are essentially true. If I don't like equinox, blazer, Terrain, then there's nothing stopping me from buying a Rav4, CSX, Mazda or Acura. I'm not even delving into Kia and the others. All are boring and anonymous and doesn't inspire driving at all.

Thank you. I learned a long time ago to really get anything done in this world you actually have to be direct, blunt, relentless and unforgiving. Or else no one takes you seriously.

Even Toyota is making inspiring cars now. You can get a sporty Corolla, the GR86, and the Supra all with manual transmissions. Even the all new Tacoma!! Which, let’s be honest, blows away the Colorado in performance, style, and reliability to begin with. And they’ve said they are NOT going all-electric! Imagine that. Toyota of all companies making the kind of cars GM USED to make.



Decorum is for the king and Queen of England.

This is America. We don’t f around.

[olrocker]

Huh.

Didn’t somebody just say this?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...BO_9gzAugaLMNu

[genxer]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Thank you. I learned a long time ago to really get anything done in this world you actually have to be direct, blunt, relentless and unforgiving. Or else no one takes you seriously.

Even Toyota is making inspiring cars now. You can get a sporty Corolla, the GR86, and the Supra all with manual transmissions. Even the all new Tacoma!! Which, let’s be honest, blows away the Colorado in performance, style, and reliability to begin with. And they’ve said they are NOT going all-electric! Imagine that. Toyota of all companies making the kind of cars GM USED to make.



Decorum is for the king and Queen of England.

This is America. We don’t f around.

Don't get ahead of yourself patting Toyota on the back. Tacoma is their strong point, those others are reversible low commitment steps to show other JDM makes who's head honcho.

The Supra is a BMW. The 86 is a Subaru, and below potential by hierarchy. Toyota has a stake there, and has them bowed and shuffling backwards. Subaru had the better sounding of the 4's, and now a stagnant STi is gone.

Every company messes up innovating appeal technology design, to varying degrees. Thinking for ways to grow enthusiast segments is still missing.

[Evergreen6]

Right?

So buy a damn Toyota if they're so great. Nobody is forcing anyone to own a GM product. Go cancel-culture your Camaro and run around with a Toyota or Kia or whatever the hell you'd rather have.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Right?

So buy a damn Toyota if they're so great. Nobody is forcing anyone to own a GM product. Go cancel-culture your Camaro and run around with a Toyota or Kia or whatever the hell you'd rather have.

Oy vay. You totally miss the trukin point. Pay attention!!

Haven’t you figured it out yet? GM is now the cancel culture company, and Toyota is now what GM was 30 years ago.

Think about it.

Mary Barra: “We’ll be all electric by 2035.”….. cancels Camaro and pretty much any other car with a soul

Akio Toyoda: “We’re done building boring cars” AND “100% electric is not a sustainable business model for the future” - committed to offering some form of gas engine in some combination for the future. And making fun cars to drive.

Which company sounds like they’re aligning themselves with the safety pin, cancel culture now?

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Oy vay. You totally miss the trukin point. Pay attention!!

Haven’t you figured it out yet? GM is now the cancel culture company, and Toyota is now what GM was 30 years ago.

Think about it.

Mary Barra: “We’ll be all electric by 2035.”….. cancels Camaro and pretty much any other car with a soul

Akio Toyoda: “We’re done building boring cars” AND “100% electric is not a sustainable business model for the future” - committed to offering some form of gas engine in some combination for the future. And making fun cars to drive.

Which company sounds like they’re aligning themselves with the safety pin, cancel culture now?

You do you. If jerking off over 4-cylinder SUV's and little rat cars does it for you, let your flag fly, man! Almost as bad as those Kia guys, ugh, the worst.

Edit: Just looked up their GR86. Oooh, yeah, 6+ seconds to 60 gets me breathing real heavy. Or a fast Corolla...now I'm really pitchin' a tent. Nope. Wait...don't tell me...you wanna slap a "Coexist" sticker on the back of a new Prius so hard. I knew it.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

You do you. If jerking off over 4-cylinder SUV's and little rat cars does it for you, let your flag fly, man! Almost as bad as those Kia guys, ugh, the worst.

Edit: Just looked up their GR86. Oooh, yeah, 6+ seconds to 60 gets me breathing real heavy. Or a fast Corolla...now I'm really pitchin' a tent. Nope. Wait...don't tell me...you wanna slap a "Coexist" sticker on the back of a new Prius so hard. I knew it.

At least Toyota is still going to build cars. BEV SUV's seem to be GM's path forward.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

You do you. If jerking off over 4-cylinder SUV's and little rat cars does it for you, let your flag fly, man! Almost as bad as those Kia guys, ugh, the worst.

Edit: Just looked up their GR86. Oooh, yeah, 6+ seconds to 60 gets me breathing real heavy. Or a fast Corolla...now I'm really pitchin' a tent. Nope. Wait...don't tell me...you wanna slap a "Coexist" sticker on the back of a new Prius so hard. I knew it.

Assimilating Toyota and Kia in any way, shape, or form is wrong. The type of people who buy cars from the two mfgs could not be more different.

Hey man you and I are both on the same side with everything if you know what I mean. I’m not “the enemy” here.

What do you think is under the hood of the Colorado? The base engine in Silverados? A V6? Better check again. Besides, the turbo 4 in the 4Runner is more powerful than the outgoing V6. More power and torque.

Turbos are great for torque. Plus you can easily get even more power by simply installing a larger intercooler which for sure will be available in the aftermarket shortly.

So you’re still missing the point.

Direct the anger you misjudged me with toward General Motors and Queen Mary. Thats the enemy here.

I want to buy GM. I want to support an American company. What the heck am I driving right now?

That’s the whole point of this. Queen Mary is going to be making electric toaster ovens while Toyota will be making cool cars you want to buy.

Unless you look forward to more variations on the Ultimium platform……. Ooooh

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Assimilating Toyota and Kia in any way, shape, or form is wrong. The type of people who buy cars from the two mfgs could not be more different.

Hey man you and I are both on the same side with everything if you know what I mean. I’m not “the enemy” here.

What do you think is under the hood of the Colorado? The base engine in Silverados? A V6? Better check again. Besides, the turbo 4 in the 4Runner is more powerful than the outgoing V6. More power and torque.

Turbos are great for torque. Plus you can easily get even more power by simply installing a larger intercooler which for sure will be available in the aftermarket shortly.

So you’re still missing the point.

Direct the anger you misjudged me with toward General Motors and Queen Mary. Thats the enemy here.

I want to buy GM. I want to support an American company. What the heck am I driving right now?

That’s the whole point of this. Queen Mary is going to be making electric toaster ovens while Toyota will be making cool cars you want to buy.

Unless you look forward to more variations on the Ultimium platform……. Ooooh

No, I don't think we're on the same side with everything. I consider this obsession and name calling with Mary Barra to be comical and bordering on potentially misogynistic. If you understand the role of CEO at that size of company, they do not make decisions in a vacuum nor do they rule the company like in a monarchy. You all want someone to be mad at, a villain to politicize, and I think doing so is quite stupid, actually.

And no, I don't need to be schooled on turbo 4-cylinders. I've got one of those too. Putting these into Jeeps and full-size trucks, midsize trucks, and SUV's is a sign of the times: ICV's are reaching peak efficiency and output.

GM still makes amazing full-size trucks, a better midsize than the Tacoma - still. The Corvette still exists, delivering mid-engine supercar performance for as little as about $75k. Do I think GM still needs another enthusiast car? Sure. But I'm not going to cry for GM about the fact that Toyota just put out a new truck and SUV after literally, almost two decades for the truck. The rest of their lineup is absolutely under-powered flan, as it has been, for a long time.