[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Because Chevy's website lists a 1SS at 3908. And a 2SS is 27 pounds more at 3935.

How is a 1LE, an option on either car less?

According to Road and Track, the 1LE wheels are lighter by 5.5 pounds per corner.

"Chevrolet lists SS curb weight as 3,860 pounds. Our test car weighed 3,878, 200-plus pounds heavier than a Boss 302. Weight is the enemy in all vehicle dynamics, including acceleration; the 1LE sprinted to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds and hit the 440-yard mark in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph"

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...maro-ss-1le-2/

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS

Not so sure on that one, have you seen an ATS up close? I have seen and driven, its much smaller then previous caddys, not too mention it sittin in the used car lot in Tempe Auto plex next to a few mid series beamers I dont see much size difference.

To the pony car reference in other posters comment, I think we all know its truly a pony car however modern folks refer to the big three as muscle cars. As to the "sporty" label thats not a positive thing in my eyes, its not an is350, miata, S2000, 370z, etc.. Im not fond of chasing that category or specs as a muscle enthusiast and I think it will hurt the image in the long run if you snubb it too much and sacrifice to much size all in the name of bragging rights and weight.

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Previous Caddy's appealed to rich older people, exactly who the ATS was not built for at all. There's not much difference in size compared to 3 series BMWs because that is its direct competitor, but neither are small cars. A small car would be Chevy Cruze, the ATS is not that small.

Sporty is a vague term best used by giving context on what is considered sport. With that said, the pursuit of sportiness in cars will not hurt the image of these cars anymore than building a bloated pig of car only capable of going in straight lines. The Dodge Challenger is the closest example to what a muscle car was, and how well has it done sale wise in its lifetime compared to the other two? Also exactly what are you worried about sacrificing for "bragging rights and weight"? Obviously not performance since a car that is lighter with more power will always perform better.

[newb]

Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS

Not so sure on that one, have you seen an ATS up close? I have seen and driven, its much smaller then previous caddys, not too mention it sittin in the used car lot in Tempe Auto plex next to a few mid series beamers I dont see much size difference.

To the pony car reference in other posters comment, I think we all know its truly a pony car however modern folks refer to the big three as muscle cars. As to the "sporty" label thats not a positive thing in my eyes, its not an is350, miata, S2000, 370z, etc.. Im not fond of chasing that category or specs as a muscle enthusiast and I think it will hurt the image in the long run if you snubb it too much and sacrifice to much size all in the name of bragging rights and weight.

Seen and driven. It is larger. And the Camaro will be larger still.

[RobWH]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

There will be no new auto until the 10-spd which at the very least will be a 2017 model year. Like Number 3 said the 10-spd is being co-developed with GM, so the Camaro will probably get it the same time as the Mustang. DI is not just something simple to add and would require a completely new engine design. If the GT350 doesn't use DI, then there is little chance a new engine will be ready next year. Lightening the car more would make sense but would beg the question, why didn't they do it when they brought out the new gen. I'm sure some GT350 parts will trickle down, but that's also the main reason for that model (lighter and more powerful than a GT).

In 2017, an entire line will use the 10spd, but whatever.

DI is something Ford could "slap right on" the 5L if they wanted. I think they don't want it on there or it would've been done. Many stories when the 5L came out pointed to the fact, it's heads are in need of a hole per cylinder. I don't expect to see it anytime soon on the Mustang 5L. If it gets there though, 40hp increase, BLAM!

The GT350 will be quite a bit lighter than the GT, probably more than 100 lb lighter. It gets many changes. A few will carry over(at some point) to the GT, but who knows when...

Originally Posted by iSHOOTtheMOON

Take "destroy" however you want. I think it will be more ahead of the Mustang than it has ever been before. Hell, the 5th gen beat out the brand-new 'stang in a Motor Trend comparison of equivalent trim levels. With the amount of improvement we will see on the new car, I think that calls for a little celebration. As for the GT350, just wait and see my friends. I'm sure the Camaro team is already on the hunt!

I think you started out a bit over the top and are continuing with some rather baseless comments. For example, just because the Camaro will be 200 lb lighter... doesn't mean "base that on 1LE weight concerning all SS models." and you shouldn't.

Ahead of the Mustang more than ever? Where were you in 1974? Clearly, not checking out cars.
For that matter, the 1998 Camaro Z/28 was far and away ahead of the Mustang GT and no, the next Camaro SS will NOT EVEN be that much better. It just won't. In fact, it won't be mentioned in such a fashion by any automotive fan who's done any homework on the matter. To be there, the next Camaro SS would, in base form, have to be roughly a 12.00 car on the 1/4 and would need to annihilate, say... a 2001 Corvette ZO6 on a road course of your choosing. That's an idea of how far off your statement is.

When the 5th gen beat that GT ... it was 2010 and the GT still had a 4.6L making 315hp. Even if we only considered the times the SS beat the GT after 2010, it would ALWAYS be a 1LE and never any standard SS. The 1LE is that much better than base... Incredibly better would be my wording.

Then you go right to the "what we're going to see" line, as if the new will be so much better than the old, the two are incomparable. To get there, it would also beat up the Corvette in general terms. DO NOT bet on that happening, at least short of 1LE vs base C7.

The GT350 is an animal and the R will be some 130 lb lighter than the non R, meaning, "Team Camaro" is going to need to unplug it and get approval to overrun the Corvette in the process.

Simply stated, I think you're too full of wishful thinking. It will be great if the 2016 is all you think it's going to be, but let's not put the cart before the horses here. These 2 cars are likely to be close in many aspects and while I'd be stunned if the Camaro didn't win outright, I don't think it's going to just win everything. That's Corvette territory and GM guards Corvette territory like the Secret Service guards the President... well, okay, a little better than that!

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by RobWH

In 2017, an entire line will use the 10spd, but whatever.

DI is something Ford could "slap right on" the 5L if they wanted. I think they don't want it on there or it would've been done. Many stories when the 5L came out pointed to the fact, it's heads are in need of a hole per cylinder. I don't expect to see it anytime soon on the Mustang 5L. If it gets there though, 40hp increase, BLAM!

The GT350 will be quite a bit lighter than the GT, probably more than 100 lb lighter. It gets many changes. A few will carry over(at some point) to the GT, but who knows when...

Sp Ford had announced their entire car line up in 2017 will have 10 spd autos or the entire Mustang line up? I must have missed that official announcement since last I heard the Raptor was the only thing it was confirmed for.

Also care to post some proof or technical details on how it is so easy to switch the Coyote to DI? Because another member posted some good reasons why it is not an easy to retrofit.

[RobWH]

Originally Posted by AzItaliaSS

My worry is at what cost? everyone seems to be so focused on weighing less but it bothers me that it might weigh less but be so much reduced in size your now a bmw or lexus? Doesnt that take some of the appeal of being a muscle car and now your an import performance wannabe?

It's going to be much smaller, but not so much it won't be cool and fun, I'm sure. I'm concerned about pricing anyway, truth be told. When F-body beat up on Mustang back in the day, except early 4th gen, it also cost more on average.

Originally Posted by SuperSound

"The 2016 Chevrolet Camaro features an aluminum beam to support the instrument panel, which is 9.7 lbs. (4.4 kg) lighter than the previous steel beam. Changes like this help reduce total curb weight for the new Camaro by more than 200 pounds."

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...30-camaro.html

Also believe the old 302 you are referencing is a cast iron block and heads, not aluminum like the Coyote is. Can't remember if the Coyote uses an aluminum block.

Seems to have said more than 200 as an afterthought... a side note... insignificant... but there it is.

The old 302 was indeed iron and the new 5L is aluminum.

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

The s550 actually gained over 125lbs. The base curb of the 2014 was 3618, but that was with a spare tire and jack included. The 2015 is 3705 curb with just the air pump. Those 2 items equal a 40lb weight difference. So if you took the spare out of the 2014 and put in the air pump, the curb would of been 3578.

Base listing is 3,618? Okay... base 15 GT is 3,705. I don't see 125 lb in there. I see 87 lb.

Just because the new model doesn't contain something a model before it contained, doesn't mean we can go, "Nuh uh tho' brah!" and claim the car didn't actually change weight as claimed. It's a car, not a slew of parts in a pile.

By your analogy, the new Camaro will weigh 200+ lb less than the current because, after all, it will be different and the current has things the new one won't have, like additional weight.

The new Mustang, as it is in base form, weighs 87 lb more than the old one did in the same... keyword: BASE ... form.

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

and with GM's new light weight gasoline formula, we are definitely losing 200lbs at minimum.

DATZ FUNNY!

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

1LE curb weight is 3875. Don't know why people still think a sub 3700 LB SS isn't possible. Straight from the horses mouth a 200 lb weight loss.

It's not about what's possible. Most people expect a 3,695-3,710 lb base model SS... that's not so random or farfetched. The 1LE simply does weigh less than the standard SS, so why should anyone think the new SS will be 200 lb lighter than that model, arbitrarily? Doesn't make sense to me, though it would be cool.

Look at the above analogy... we may as well say, "The base SS can't weigh what it weighs because the 1LE is lighter." Well, the 1LE isn't base. So why are we expecting a base weight to be determined by using the weight of a non - base model?

[crysalis_01]

So, the 200lb loss comment was to curb weight. That's awesome. The next question has to be, "Will that be model wide or, like the new F-150's 732lb loss, only on a certain trim level?" while losses on other trims were indeed present, they were less drastic.

[RobWH]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Sp Ford had announced their entire car line up in 2017 will have 10 spd autos or the entire Mustang line up? I must have missed that official announcement since last I heard the Raptor was the only thing it was confirmed for.

I never insinuated the entire lineup of Ford cars, just that an entire line, the F-150 in this case, will. They're not going to offer it only on 1 pickup anymore than GM is.

Also care to post some proof or technical details on how it is so easy to switch the Coyote to DI? Because another member posted some good reasons why it is not an easy to retrofit.

Like I said, there were many stories about it even before the 5L hit the market. You can find them, but I'm not here to go all in depth on what Ford might do... I just don't care what Ford might do, but I do know that a company that size can rather easily add DI to 1 more engine... They have quite a bit experience building engines. They simply chose not to do it and considering how extremely expensive it is, they'll likely continue to choose not to do it.

Multiple sources have said since 2010 though, the engine is designed to be DI and I am certain you could find where the Ford engineer who headed up the Mustang engines actually said they started out w/ DI on them, plus you can find photos of the heads which show the area for the port.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

So, the 200lb loss comment was to curb weight. That's awesome. The next question has to be, "Will that be model wide or, like the new F-150's 732lb loss, only on a certain trim level?" while losses on other trims were indeed present, they were less drastic.

What we can say is, don't expect a 200+ lb weight loss across the board, but it will be much like the Mustang with base being both available and rare.

[Sesiom Summers]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Because Chevy's website lists a 1SS at 3908. And a 2SS is 27 pounds more at 3935.

How is a 1LE, an option on either car less?

why you have to be so negative?... its like the 3th time in this threat you just say, not its not posible or something like that... at this no body has a clue about the final weight, it could be 3.500 or 3.799...

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by RobWH

It's going to be much smaller, but not so much it won't be cool and fun, I'm sure. I'm concerned about pricing anyway, truth be told. When F-body beat up on Mustang back in the day, except early 4th gen, it also cost more on average.

Seems to have said more than 200 as an afterthought... a side note... insignificant... but there it is.

The old 302 was indeed iron and the new 5L is aluminum.

Base listing is 3,618? Okay... base 15 GT is 3,705. I don't see 125 lb in there. I see 87 lb.

Just because the new model doesn't contain something a model before it contained, doesn't mean we can go, "Nuh uh tho' brah!" and claim the car didn't actually change weight as claimed. It's a car, not a slew of parts in a pile.

By your analogy, the new Camaro will weigh 200+ lb less than the current because, after all, it will be different and the current has things the new one won't have, like additional weight.

The new Mustang, as it is in base form, weighs 87 lb more than the old one did in the same... keyword: BASE ... form.

DATZ FUNNY!
It's not about what's possible. Most people expect a 3,695-3,710 lb base model SS... that's not so random or farfetched. The 1LE simply does weigh less than the standard SS, so why should anyone think the new SS will be 200 lb lighter than that model, arbitrarily? Doesn't make sense to me, though it would be cool.

Look at the above analogy... we may as well say, "The base SS can't weigh what it weighs because the 1LE is lighter." Well, the 1LE isn't base. So why are we expecting a base weight to be determined by using the weight of a non - base model?

I'm talking about the physical car itself gained 125lbs. If both had spares or air pumps, there would be 125lb difference. Just common sense. Ford just didn't add a spare in there base in 15 to keep the weight down.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Because Chevy's website lists a 1SS at 3908. And a 2SS is 27 pounds more at 3935.

How is a 1LE, an option on either car less?

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

According to Road and Track, the 1LE wheels are lighter by 5.5 pounds per corner.

"Chevrolet lists SS curb weight as 3,860 pounds. Our test car weighed 3,878, 200-plus pounds heavier than a Boss 302. Weight is the enemy in all vehicle dynamics, including acceleration; the 1LE sprinted to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds and hit the 440-yard mark in 13.1 seconds at 109 mph"

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...maro-ss-1le-2/

He beat me to it. I remember there being confusion because some magazines were stating 3860 and some 3875, and I believe both of those weights are from GM. Either way that puts a sixth gen SS 1LE (if it exists) under 3700 lbs. With the regular old aluminum alloys it won't add much weight. 22 lbs if they stay with 20", less if they go with 19".

[GearBangr]

Camaro: 3884 Mustang 3810

http://m.caranddriver.com/comparison...e-specs-page-5

Camaro: 3886 Mustang: 3814

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...ck_mustang_gt/

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

He beat me to it. I remember there being confusion because some magazines were stating 3860 and some 3875, and I believe both of those weights are from GM. Either way that puts a sixth gen SS 1LE (if it exists) under 3700 lbs. With the regular old aluminum alloys it won't add much weight. 22 lbs if they stay with 20", less if they go with 19".

I'm personally not banking on the 1LE being lighter this time around. I think the base SS will have smaller components in general than current one and the beefier and better performance equipped 1LE will be a little heavier.

[xgnxs]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

So, the 200lb loss comment was to curb weight. That's awesome. The next question has to be, "Will that be model wide or, like the new F-150's 732lb loss, only on a certain trim level?" while losses on other trims were indeed present, they were less drastic.

That part seems to be left up to interpretation (whether it will only be a certain trim level or model wide). Personally, I interpret their statement as meaning model wide, due to the "more than" part of the description, seeing more weight loss on already lighter trims (V6 vs V8). Of course, it's a PR statement and they're going to word it in the best possible way, but if they wanted to not be deceiving and 200 lbs is the most weight we're going to see lost, then the statement should've been something like: "...Changes like this help reduce total curb weight for the new Camaro by 200 pounds at best." Or something similar. If the curb weight loss isn't at least 201 lbs for every model and trim, you can bet people will be upset.

Edit:
Or...
"...Changes like this help reduce total curb weight by up to 200 lbs."