[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by mt3130

Why do people always equate displacement with physical size of an engine? I guess it can be seen as a logical step to think that a 6.2L engine would be bigger than a 5.0L engine, if you know nothing about engines.

They don't they equate dohc vs pushrod to the physical size of the engine. By design and bore spacing it dictates roughly how many cubes can be had safely. A big yet small displacement coyote struggles to get over 330 cubes with a cray stroke. A small yet large displacement pushrod engine can go over 500ci and still remain the same size externally.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Are you prepared to eat those words? I don't recall Ford every making a public statement of a 200lb weight reduction over the previous comparable model? GM has and it would be a monumental PR disaster to explain that they saved 200lbs in curb weight only to add back 300lbs in the production car.

My question is, was it stated that the 200lb loss was in "curb weight" or was it structural loss?

You're now thinking..."what's the differance, weight loss is weight loss?"

The difference is, looking at C7 and S550, weight loss WAS achieved...compared to the previous platform. That's why S550 only put on 50-86lbs while incorporating an all new ILIRS, new DBJFS, etc. The same occured with C7, they were able to lose weight in the platform, but when the dust settled, content caused a gain...although without that 100lb loss in structure, curb weight gain would have been even greater.

I'm not saying Camaro won't lose weight...it will. But if it wasn't explicitly stated to be curb weight, I would not place ANY bets on what that weight loss will be.

Originally Posted by fradaj

That picture shows a pretty dramatic difference, I wonder what the actual weight difference is?

The old 302 weights around 460lbs while the Coyote weighs 444lbs. And despite what the poster of that pic stated, Coyote is not larger than the old 4.6 DOHC. Its actually narrower than the old SOHC 4.6

5.0L DOHC
28" Length
26" Height
27-1/2" Wide

4.6L DOHC
28" Length
29-7/8" Height
30" Wide

4.6L SOHC
28" Length
26" Height
28-5/8" Wide

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

My question is, was it stated that the 200lb loss was in "curb weight" or was it structural loss?


The old 302 weights around 460lbs while the Coyote weighs 444lbs. And despite what the poster of that pic stated, Coyote is not larger than the old 4.6 DOHC. Its actually narrower than the old SOHC 4.6

"The 2016 Chevrolet Camaro features an aluminum beam to support the instrument panel, which is 9.7 lbs. (4.4 kg) lighter than the previous steel beam. Changes like this help reduce total curb weight for the new Camaro by more than 200 pounds."

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...30-camaro.html


Also believe the old 302 you are referencing is a cast iron block and heads, not aluminum like the Coyote is. Can't remember if the Coyote uses an aluminum block.

[xgnxs]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

My question is, was it stated that the 200lb loss was in "curb weight" or was it structural loss?

...

I'm not saying Camaro won't lose weight...it will. But if it wasn't explicitly stated to be curb weight, I would not place ANY bets on what that weight loss will be.

It was explicitly stated to be curb weight.

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...30-camaro.html

Read the caption under the first picture on the right side: "...Changes like this help reduce total curb weight for the new Camaro by more than 200 pounds."

[Number 3]

Good catch on curb weight.

I believe curb weight includes a full tank of fuel. So Gen5 Camaro has a 19 gallon tank. An ATS coupe for reference has only 16 gallons. That's an EASY 24 pounds right there.

[KMPrenger]

They said curb weight....so we should be expecting a curb weight loss. 200+ pounds

If the Car only ends up being 50 - 100 lbs lighter....still good....but will be a total disappointment.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

My question is, was it stated that the 200lb loss was in "curb weight" or was it structural loss?

You're now thinking..."what's the differance, weight loss is weight loss?"

The difference is, looking at C7 and S550, weight loss WAS achieved...compared to the previous platform. That's why S550 only put on 50-86lbs while incorporating an all new ILIRS, new DBJFS, etc. The same occured with C7, they were able to lose weight in the platform, but when the dust settled, content caused a gain...although without that 100lb loss in structure, curb weight gain would have been even greater.

I'm not saying Camaro won't lose weight...it will. But if it wasn't explicitly stated to be curb weight, I would not place ANY bets on what that weight loss will be.



The old 302 weights around 460lbs while the Coyote weighs 444lbs. And despite what the poster of that pic stated, Coyote is not larger than the old 4.6 DOHC. Its actually narrower than the old SOHC 4.6

5.0L DOHC
28" Length
26" Height
27-1/2" Wide

4.6L DOHC
28" Length
29-7/8" Height
30" Wide

4.6L SOHC
28" Length
26" Height
28-5/8" Wide

The s550 actually gained over 125lbs. The base curb of the 2014 was 3618, but that was with a spare tire and jack included. The 2015 is 3705 curb with just the air pump. Those 2 items equal a 40lb weight difference. So if you took the spare out of the 2014 and put in the air pump, the curb would of been 3578.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Good catch on curb weight.

I believe curb weight includes a full tank of fuel. So Gen5 Camaro has a 19 gallon tank. An ATS coupe for reference has only 16 gallons. That's an EASY 24 pounds right there.

and with GM's new light weight gasoline formula, we are definitely losing 200lbs at minimum.

[Bhobbs]

I think it's a little presumptuous that the 6th gen will rout the GT. It will have a good chance of beating it. I guarantee Ford is working on an updated 5.0 to match the LT1.

[Blueclyde]

Yeah really, this thread is somewhat pompous.

[AzItaliaSS]

Originally Posted by newb

Considering its on a larger version of the platform that the ATS is built on, and the ATS is the same size or larger than the cars you mention, I think you are safe from the Camaro becoming an econo box of a sports car.

Not so sure on that one, have you seen an ATS up close? I have seen and driven, its much smaller then previous caddys, not too mention it sittin in the used car lot in Tempe Auto plex next to a few mid series beamers I dont see much size difference.

To the pony car reference in other posters comment, I think we all know its truly a pony car however modern folks refer to the big three as muscle cars. As to the "sporty" label thats not a positive thing in my eyes, its not an is350, miata, S2000, 370z, etc.. Im not fond of chasing that category or specs as a muscle enthusiast and I think it will hurt the image in the long run if you snubb it too much and sacrifice to much size all in the name of bragging rights and weight.

[PYROLYSIS]

1LE curb weight is 3875. Don't know why people still think a sub 3700 LB SS isn't possible. Straight from the horses mouth a 200 lb weight loss.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

1LE curb weight is 3875. Don't know why people still think a sub 3700 LB SS isn't possible. Straight from the horses mouth a 200 lb weight loss.

Because Chevy's website lists a 1SS at 3908. And a 2SS is 27 pounds more at 3935.

How is a 1LE, an option on either car less?

[ChefBorOzzy]

I think a base SS will be able to weigh in 3,700 to 3,750 pounds.

We don't know exactly how much the ATS-V weighs. "Around 3,700" is what they said. Maybe it's 30 pounds less or it's 30 pounds more.

As far as hardware goes compared to base SS, the ATS-V will have bigger rotors, higher performance brakes, magnetic ride control, it will be better loaded (which adds a little bit of weight), I believe the the LF4 also weighs just a tad more than the LT1, but I could be wrong.

Camaro will get a little wider than the ATS in the front according to Chevy and that will account for weight and they may not use as much aluminum. A base SS will probably end up very close in weight to the "base" ATS-V which is much better loaded as a luxury car and a performance car, but it does cost 25k or so more.

Remember, the huge 2014 Chevy SS weighs around 3,920 pounds. I just don't see how they couldn't make the Camaro lighter than that especially considering it's being build on a newer and lighter platform.