Bow 5 Replacement/Gap/Sag/Water Leak - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

GMTech · 10-26-2013, 07:30 PM

I know quite a few of you have had issued with the convertible tops on the 2011-2013 Camaro, and thought I would share a repair that I just completed.

This particular Camaro was a 2012 model and had been into the dealership twice with water leak issues. Once I got the car to work on, I noticed the large gap between the rear of the top and the body. There is a bulletin to address this, as most of you know, due to the 5th bow bending/breaking.

Once I got the entire top and water management bag out of the car, you could definitely tell there were issues back there. Also, from the now bent 5th bow, it had rubbed two holes in the water management bag from where the two rear torx bolts hold the 5th bow to the frame/pivots. This car needed the bow replaced as well as the bag. It's not an easy job, and requires a lot of tedious work, especially attaching the headliner, top, and bag back to the new aluminum bow. Everything worked out good, though, and it looks like brand new and has absolutely no leaks. I thought I would post some pictures so you all can see how involved it is and how much actually your vehicle needs to come apart to do a job like this.

RolltideSS · 10-26-2013, 08:07 PM

Definitely interesting to see all that but I would be pissed if I walked into the shop and saw the seats sitting on the hood - potential scratches and dents - I'm sure there are a lot of things that shops do like that though

GMTech · 10-26-2013, 08:12 PM

Yeah, that's why they are fabric side down to prevent that. Plus, what you can't see is the plastic cling wrap that goes on the car when a big job like this is done.

not · 10-26-2013, 09:43 PM

Hey "GM Tech"

Thanks so much for the pics and explanation. Great job and wish all dealerships had someone with your knowledge!

kevinw · 10-27-2013, 07:18 PM

which bow is the 5th one? is it the one right before the rear window i suppose? thanks for the pics. i have a new 13 i bought 2 weeks ago. i hear the fixes were made on the 13. i cannot believe how you have to dismantle the entire car practically. i was wondering why the cracks in the body work by the rear windows that run all around the back area. wow. its looks like a total mess. thanks again

Verbolten · 10-28-2013, 07:48 AM

OP, What did you do to prevent the torx bolts from rubbing through the water bag in the future?

intensifi · 10-28-2013, 08:25 AM

Thanks GMTech!

I have been wondering how it can be cost effective given labor rates to have you guys install a new canvas top on an existing frame. It seems like it would be more cost effective to have you just install a new frame/top combo when problems are encountered.

The techs in the field would each have "figure it out" time. Whereas the OEM guys already know how to do it.

I understand shipping and part costs would be higher, but I'd think the labor savings at the dealer/installer would more than offset those costs?

Any thoughts on this?

GMTech · 10-28-2013, 07:17 PM

@Mcchuck The torx bolts that hold the 5th bow to the frame do not contact the bag when the bow isn't damaged. There is a normal clearance there. There really isn't any way to prevent them from rubbing if the bow has a problem like being bent or broken. The newest design water management bags have a couple extra pieces of rubber added into high wear areas, so that helps a bit.

@intensifi Any way you look at it, the labor to do these jobs is outrageous. Luckily most everyone on here is still in warranty and don't have to worry about that. But, as years go on, trouble will find some of these tops again and it will be on the customer to pay for it. I'd always prefer someone that knows the car to do the work on it, such as a dealer technician. Of course it's most always more expensive at the dealer, but I'd personally pay the extra for the expertise and backing of the work/parts. Aftermarket shops can do the job, but like you said there is an expense in getting the proper parts for the car. It probably ends up about even. I can tell you that the job I just did replacing the 5th bow and bag, while pretty labor intensive, still only pays about half of what replacing the actual canvas top on the car does. That's a whole other beast and NOT fun at all. You can't get a complete top from GM, which is how I'd prefer it came. You have to get the frame separate from the canvas top. Either way, it's expensive!! LOL

CamaroIOM12 · 10-29-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolltideSS

Definitely interesting to see all that but I would be pissed if I walked into the shop and saw the seats sitting on the hood - potential scratches and dents - I'm sure there are a lot of things that shops do like that though

First thing I saw and would be very pissed off!!!!!!

JR 1 · 10-29-2013, 12:44 PM

Oh my god, you should put a warning in the title. Seeing that car all torn apart makes me want to throw up.

That is major surgery with a lot of opportunities for damage. I pray I don't have to get that done, but my top is supposedly the "original" design so I'll probably have to at some point.

ToddB · 11-04-2013, 08:03 PM

I did my own repair in my garage back in August. Follow this link. It was a piece of cake.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=5th+bow

not · 11-04-2013, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddB

I did my own repair in my garage back in August. Follow this link. It was a piece of cake.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=5th+bow

Great job Todd, you're the man. My dlr. forgot to add the plastic "buttons" that the tonneau cover hinges onto. Do you think it safe to take to them to do it or should I try it myself? Any chance of them screwing up the water bag alignment?

Thanks.

ToddB · 11-05-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not

Great job Todd, you're the man. My dlr. forgot to add the plastic "buttons" that the tonneau cover hinges onto. Do you think it safe to take to them to do it or should I try it myself? Any chance of them screwing up the water bag alignment?

Thanks.

If you feel comfortable taking the seat off. you have to remove the seat back. then you can get at where to install the bolts. Takes maybe 30 min. be careful you don't drop the nut. super glue it to the socket wrench until tight then pop it off.

angrykiller1 · 11-30-2013, 03:07 PM

pretty nice job! i know you found the adjusters i had to point out to my dealer. top wouldnt pull shut. also after 3 fifth bow replacements, i found what is causing the damage. that's right. it catches the water bag! that's what bends or breaks it in the first place. look at the end of the bow, find that plastic end, run your finger over the point, sharp point, that what skull drags the water bag. then bent fifth bow. this is the root cause, not an effect. i havent found a mechanic works for g.m. knows what the root cause is, and i been telling them all, so perhaps only one fix is necessary, not 5 like my poor old beat to death camaro.

10-26-2013, 07:30 PM	#1
GMTech Drives: ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: IL Posts: 3	Bow 5 Replacement/Gap/Sag/Water Leak I know quite a few of you have had issued with the convertible tops on the 2011-2013 Camaro, and thought I would share a repair that I just completed. This particular Camaro was a 2012 model and had been into the dealership twice with water leak issues. Once I got the car to work on, I noticed the large gap between the rear of the top and the body. There is a bulletin to address this, as most of you know, due to the 5th bow bending/breaking. Once I got the entire top and water management bag out of the car, you could definitely tell there were issues back there. Also, from the now bent 5th bow, it had rubbed two holes in the water management bag from where the two rear torx bolts hold the 5th bow to the frame/pivots. This car needed the bow replaced as well as the bag. It's not an easy job, and requires a lot of tedious work, especially attaching the headliner, top, and bag back to the new aluminum bow. Everything worked out good, though, and it looks like brand new and has absolutely no leaks. I thought I would post some pictures so you all can see how involved it is and how much actually your vehicle needs to come apart to do a job like this. Attached Images

10-28-2013, 08:25 AM	#7
intensifi Drives: '12 2LT Convertible Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belmont, California Posts: 1,701	Thanks GMTech! I have been wondering how it can be cost effective given labor rates to have you guys install a new canvas top on an existing frame. It seems like it would be more cost effective to have you just install a new frame/top combo when problems are encountered. The techs in the field would each have "figure it out" time. Whereas the OEM guys already know how to do it. I understand shipping and part costs would be higher, but I'd think the labor savings at the dealer/installer would more than offset those costs? Any thoughts on this? __________________ Mods: GM Locking Gas Cap, RS License Plate Frame, SS Brembos, ZL1 FrontEnd, 14/15 Convertible Top Last edited by intensifi; 01-21-2014 at 04:37 PM. Reason: typo

10-26-2013, 08:07 PM	#2
RolltideSS Drives: 2018 SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Houston Posts: 1,069 View My Garage	Definitely interesting to see all that but I would be pissed if I walked into the shop and saw the seats sitting on the hood - potential scratches and dents - I'm sure there are a lot of things that shops do like that though

10-26-2013, 08:12 PM	#3
GMTech Drives: ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: IL Posts: 3	Yeah, that's why they are fabric side down to prevent that. Plus, what you can't see is the plastic cling wrap that goes on the car when a big job like this is done.

10-26-2013, 09:43 PM	#4
not Account Suspended Drives: Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 341	Hey "GM Tech" Thanks so much for the pics and explanation. Great job and wish all dealerships had someone with your knowledge!

10-27-2013, 07:18 PM	#5
kevinw Drives: 2013 Black 2 LT vert Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: kansas city Posts: 1,765	which bow is the 5th one? is it the one right before the rear window i suppose? thanks for the pics. i have a new 13 i bought 2 weeks ago. i hear the fixes were made on the 13. i cannot believe how you have to dismantle the entire car practically. i was wondering why the cracks in the body work by the rear windows that run all around the back area. wow. its looks like a total mess. thanks again

10-28-2013, 07:48 AM	#6
Verbolten Drives: someday a convertible Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: PA Posts: 266	OP, What did you do to prevent the torx bolts from rubbing through the water bag in the future?

10-28-2013, 07:17 PM	#8
GMTech Drives: ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: IL Posts: 3	@Mcchuck The torx bolts that hold the 5th bow to the frame do not contact the bag when the bow isn't damaged. There is a normal clearance there. There really isn't any way to prevent them from rubbing if the bow has a problem like being bent or broken. The newest design water management bags have a couple extra pieces of rubber added into high wear areas, so that helps a bit. @intensifi Any way you look at it, the labor to do these jobs is outrageous. Luckily most everyone on here is still in warranty and don't have to worry about that. But, as years go on, trouble will find some of these tops again and it will be on the customer to pay for it. I'd always prefer someone that knows the car to do the work on it, such as a dealer technician. Of course it's most always more expensive at the dealer, but I'd personally pay the extra for the expertise and backing of the work/parts. Aftermarket shops can do the job, but like you said there is an expense in getting the proper parts for the car. It probably ends up about even. I can tell you that the job I just did replacing the 5th bow and bag, while pretty labor intensive, still only pays about half of what replacing the actual canvas top on the car does. That's a whole other beast and NOT fun at all. You can't get a complete top from GM, which is how I'd prefer it came. You have to get the frame separate from the canvas top. Either way, it's expensive!! LOL

10-29-2013, 12:44 PM	#10
JR 1 Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Convertible Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Lake Orion, MI Posts: 1,247	Oh my god, you should put a warning in the title. Seeing that car all torn apart makes me want to throw up. That is major surgery with a lot of opportunities for damage. I pray I don't have to get that done, but my top is supposedly the "original" design so I'll probably have to at some point.

11-04-2013, 08:03 PM	#11
ToddB Drives: 2011 2SS Convertible Supercharged Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: WI Cert Welder Navy NSSN Posts: 1,157	I did my own repair in my garage back in August. Follow this link. It was a piece of cake. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=5th+bow

11-30-2013, 03:07 PM	#14
angrykiller1 Drives: 2011 2ss inferno orange convertible Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: baton rouge Posts: 136	pretty nice job! i know you found the adjusters i had to point out to my dealer. top wouldnt pull shut. also after 3 fifth bow replacements, i found what is causing the damage. that's right. it catches the water bag! that's what bends or breaks it in the first place. look at the end of the bow, find that plastic end, run your finger over the point, sharp point, that what skull drags the water bag. then bent fifth bow. this is the root cause, not an effect. i havent found a mechanic works for g.m. knows what the root cause is, and i been telling them all, so perhaps only one fix is necessary, not 5 like my poor old beat to death camaro.