[Ambush]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Take any large company of your choice, google their name and "largest shareholders". You'll notice the same names in almost all of them. Car companies, food companies, pharma companies, entertainment/media, etc, etc. Oh, and there is a group that meets in places like Davos.

I'm not sure what that comment even means in context, and that is my fault. I'll clarify. Take a look at the "ROCE" (return on capital employed) stat.

Tesla simply blows the ICE competitors away. 21 percent compared to GM's 6 percent and Ford's negative ROCE.

What this means to you is this:

Tesla can reduce the price of their cars - BELOW what GM and FORD (and any other car company vehicles) are selling, cut into their profits, and force them to panic.

And they have done so.
You may say "so what, 40k car is now 39k?" here's the thing. with that 21% ROCE, They. Can. Keep. Doing. This.

Your Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, are literally at the mercy of Tesla because their business and manufacturing models are superior.
And once those EVs become cheaper than their ICE equivalents, that's it: No more mass production muscle cars from Detroit.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Palutz

GM portion of video ends at 2:09

I agree with him with the bs behind the scenes deals these companies are securing with powerful people that can vote on policy. I know no politics here but the EV crowd should take heed to what’s happening behind closed doors. I work in the energy sector here in Texas and I can tell you the infrastructure for EVs is not going to be dependable for at least a decade or more. We’ll need oil for a few more decades but please don’t tell AOC or some of the heads of the car companies this. It’s pipe dreams at best right now. One day I’ll own an EV to take me to work and back home so I can relax and be ready to jump in my ZLE to revitalize my life.

https://youtu.be/l8q8jMGS9C4

Originally Posted by paradigm

I work for an electric utility. We are no where close to being able to support the policy push of EVs, and electrification of everything.

Also the fantasy of having windmills and solar panels providing base load generation is hilarious.

Are any technical experts actually consulted during these fantasy policies?

So you’re both saying that by the time it remotely matters the grid will be ready.

Originally Posted by haggler

I used to commute 54 miles a day to the west side of LA.
The cost to charge at a charging station is around 0.60 kWh.
The cost to charge at home at off hours is 0.22 kWh
SCE is trying to raise rates again, so these are going up soon (and this is not even the summer rate).
Cost to charge for this commute at home is ~$3
Cost to charge for this commute at charging stations is ~$8
This is calclated based on Tesla's own charging calculator modifying their assumptions for my local rate.
If your car gets 30mpg, @ 4.25 a gallon you can see its roughly the same as a charging station
If you car gets 50 mpg hybrid, its 40% less.
Run the numbers, this electric car thing is a sham IMO. This is assuming current electricity prices and 52% renewable energy mandated by CA. CA has the highest gas tax in the nation, the state will eventually try to recoupe these costs in the form of registration tax on EV. Run the number yourself, YMMV.

By you own math the 30 mpg car will cost you $16 for the commute compared to $3 for charging at home, which is what most people do today. So if you take a worst case EV cost and a best case ICE cost they are about the same.

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

I agree with you that it’s just a pipe dream now and in the near future.

Originally Posted by 455Rocket

Seems to me would need many new nuclear power plants for this kind of change but they don't like those either. When the electric utilities get a monopoly on energy of every kind watch the rates go up to astronomical levels.
Federal government spending billions forcing us to all drive cute little electric station wagons, seems to me would want to be spending on an infrastructure that can handle it to start with. Everyone on that side considers themselves great masterminds and if you suggest it's too much too fast you're called a backward fearmonger.

Today you have wayyyyyy more choices than little electric station wagons. Trucks, sedans, SUVs, small medium and large. Not all of them cute either.

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

Government and car companies need to F off.

Get the F out of my life and stop trying to dictate every aspect of our lives.

Also, EV's are 100% garbage and are not any more efficient than gas cars.

I also completely reject every aspect of CO2 being a pollutant. But is sure does enable governments and big companies to exercise control over everything doesn't it. It's almost like its all a big scam.

A lot wrong here.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Ambush

EVs will gain bigger and bigger market share over ICE.

But the numbers and the trend is there.
So you can complain about it, deny carbon dioxide's impact on the environment, or do the whole "old man yells at cloud" thing on EV's.

But the rich people have spoken. And they'll drag you kicking and screaming into this brave new world, so deal with it.

Don't need to deal with it because it's not going to take over in my lifetime... (If at all)

[Red Chief]

Two words: apartment buildings.

Ironically the territories in the US where people vote in support of this electric car stuff are full of towering apartments.

How are thiose millions of people supposed to charge their cars overnight?? Run an extension cord from the 20th floor?

It's a joke.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Two words: apartment buildings.

Ironically the territories in the US where people vote in support of this electric car stuff are full of towering apartments.

How are thiose millions of people supposed to charge their cars overnight?? Run an extension cord from the 20th floor?

It's a joke.

I use a parking garage when I'm at work. There are only 2 ef'ing chargers per level and this is a 5 story parking garage that holds 600 parking spots.

Awell to hell with the 590 other people with EV's amirite?

Edit: Stop Ambush its not a heated parking garage FFS and is directly exposed to the outside multitude of 10's sub zero temperatures. Call me next time New Orleans hits -20 degrees F with a wind chill at -30 to -50 degrees F or more.

No infrastructure = no EV's.

People need to stop being delusional about pushing for it.

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Two words: apartment buildings.

Ironically the territories in the US where people vote in support of this electric car stuff are full of towering apartments.

How are thiose millions of people supposed to charge their cars overnight?? Run an extension cord from the 20th floor?

It's a joke.

The same way apartment dwellers use their block heaters up north during the winter.

Each parking spot has an outlet.

[Ambush]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

No infrastructure = no EV's.

People need to stop being delusional about pushing for it.

except...people aren't delusional and are pushing EV infrastructure construction.

Here's the trend so far





I can just imagine how this conversation thread compares to 100 years ago when people were transitioning from horses to cars.

"there's no paved roads! no gas stations!" "nothing can replace horses!" lol.

When automobiles started widespread adoptions, people were still allowed to ride horses, so relax, you'll still be able to ride your horse.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Ambush

I can just imagine how this conversation thread compares to 100 years ago when people were transitioning from horses to cars.

"there's no paved roads! no gas stations!" "nothing can replace horses!" lol.

When automobiles started widespread adoptions, people were still allowed to ride horses, so relax, you'll still be able to ride your horse.

I know people who are very passionate about horses, and their related sports. I don't tell them they should get an e-bike. People are the same about ICE cars, and will continue to be. The horse analogy isn't the burn you think it is.

Furthermore, why do people continue to argue about the viability of ev's on this forum? I mean we sacrificed practicality for an engaging drivers car to begin with, if an EV produces the same sustained level of engagement, then who cares if it has 100mi of range( I currently have my doubts).

I think the best analogy for ICE vs EV, is the ICE transmission. A manual transmission makes no sense, you have to continuously manage how the wheels connect to the engine with you foot and hand, they're slower and get worse gas mileage, but many of us love it, and will continue to get manual transmissions as long as we can ( even though many of us manual drivers wouldn't protest if given a C8 (including myself).... LOL). EV's remove part of the sensory experience and opportunity to engage with driving, some people will just like ICE, can we just leave it at that?

[Fstlane]

Well here we are ......no one will change thier mind on what ever stance they Support.
Conversation over.....hey what about that Camaro you are driving or wish you were driving?
How are we as a purchasing block going to send GM our displeasure about the end of our favorite automobile?

Have you thought about going to a race with EV's?

Make the sound of the Jetson mobile for 2 hours...

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by Ambush

I can just imagine how this conversation thread compares to 100 years ago when people were transitioning from horses to cars.

"there's no paved roads! no gas stations!" "nothing can replace horses!" lol.

When automobiles started widespread adoptions, people were still allowed to ride horses, so relax, you'll still be able to ride your horse.

Except the government didn't force people to give up their horses.....
And carriage manufacturer's did force you to buy automobiles....

[ZED SLED]

Also, for a mere $19/mo, you can feed and clothe a poor little African kid working in a mine in the Congo producing cobalt for the Chinese to provide to your local EV battery plant. That is, until the Chinese say f-off.

[Callaway_1]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

What people do not realize is that fossil fuels are made from dead plant/animal material.
It is no different than burning a piece of wood or other biomass.

Sorry, if that were the case carbon based fuels would have been depleted prior to World War 2.

[AlwaysFbody]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Two words: apartment buildings.

Ironically the territories in the US where people vote in support of this electric car stuff are full of towering apartments.

How are those millions of people supposed to charge their cars overnight?? Run an extension cord from the 20th floor?

It's a joke.

[Ambush]

Originally Posted by ZED SLED

Also, for a mere $19/mo, you can feed and clothe a poor little African kid working in a mine in the Congo producing cobalt for the Chinese to provide to your local EV battery plant. That is, until the Chinese say f-off.

Idaho and Canada have cobalt mines. Don't need to rely on the Chinese. Expand existing mines, and find new vein sources in the west. Please don't present the argument that "democrats will block mining in America". Democrats are first and foremost capitalists. Even Biden approved further oil drilling permits on federal land.

Originally Posted by Fstlane

Well here we are ......no one will change thier mind on what ever stance they Support.
Conversation over.....hey what about that Camaro you are driving or wish you were driving?
How are we as a purchasing block going to send GM our displeasure about the end of our favorite automobile?

Have you thought about going to a race with EV's?

Make the sound of the Jetson mobile for 2 hours...

Don't get me wrong, I support internal combustion engines, and oil is going to be here for a very long time. I even had and SS1LE spec'd out before deciding to get a Quadrifoglio.

But I think you guys are denouncing something that will possibly end up being good for you.

When production stops, as long as there's demand, either:
1. your current cars will appreciate in value as long as there's demand
2. a niche manufacturer will pick up on demand and still create these wonderful cars.

Just look at Factory Five Racing's website. You'll have more control of what you put in your vehicles, and it'll truly be a closer knit community.

But as of now, RWD cars have peaked. We're traction limited at 500 HP, and further performance requires AWD systems.

All that I've posted previously is to show the community: Here's the trend. This is where society's going, but nobody's going to try to take away your toys.

This isn't the 1970s when the arabs had our balls. America now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia or Russia, and even the "demoncrats" as some of you will mutter behind closed doors, have approved permits to drill.

Your cars will be fine.