Shno's House of Z

[JusticePete]

Put a built 427 with 600 at the rears in the Z/28 and it is faster than anything on the list. The three fastest cars at the last OPTIMA event on the road course were all 5th Gens and that field has some well built and driven GTRs and other top shelf iron.

And none of them were driven by Danny Popp who was side lined with brake problems.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Put a built 427 with 600 at the rears in the Z/28 and it is faster than anything on the list. The three fastest cars at the last OPTIMA event on the road course were all 5th Gens and that field has some well built and driven GTRs and other top shelf iron.

And none of them were driven by Danny Popp who was side lined with brake problems.

Chevy rules!

Wait are you including the 918?

[Number 3]

Ok not to beat a dead horse and not to take ANYTHING away from the Z/28............but put the CC brakes and awesome tires on the Z51 and it's a different ball game.

But the numbers show an incredible car. Down on top speed but right there in lap times. Suggests awesome handling and braking.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok not to beat a dead horse and not to take ANYTHING away from the Z/28............but put the CC brakes and awesome tires on the Z51 and it's a different ball game.

But the numbers show an incredible car. Down on top speed but right there in lap times. Suggests awesome handling and braking.

Let's hope GM builds a track C7 similar to the Z/28. I doubt it will happen but who knows.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Put a built 427 with 600 at the rears in the Z/28 and it is faster than anything on the list. The three fastest cars at the last OPTIMA event on the road course were all 5th Gens and that field has some well built and driven GTRs and other top shelf iron.

And none of them were driven by Danny Popp who was side lined with brake problems.

Ok so if I do engine work on those other cars then they would also still be faster.

That isn't a fair comparison.

Stock vs. stock or modified vs. modified.

Now the cost to "modify" a 918 or a Ferrari FF would be about the price of the Z/28................and probably the Z51 thrown in too.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok so if I do engine work on those other cars then they would also still be faster.

That isn't a fair comparison.

Stock vs. stock or modified vs. modified.

Now the cost to "modify" a 918 or a Ferrari FF would be about the price of the Z/28................and probably the Z51 thrown in too.

Stock vs stock means very little when 1 car is much more expensive than the other. To me the only fair comparison is total dollars spent. If you can take a Z/28 and add 100 HP (N/A) for $7,000 - $8,000 and it performs better than cars costing twice that, it is the far better value. And to me far more impressive.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Stock vs stock means very little when 1 car is much more expensive than the other. To me the only fair comparison is total dollars spent. If you can take a Z/28 and add 100 HP (N/A) for $7,000 - $8,000 and it performs better than cars costing twice that, it is the far better value. And to me far more impressive.

I understand your perspective, but I don't agree.

For an individual your perspective is fine.

But when you are doing a magazine comparison like this, stock vs. stock is all that matters.

To take what you are saying to the other extreme, I can take a POS 10 year old Honda and put $50,000 into it and smoke the crap out of a ZL1. I don't like that comparison any more than I do taking a pristine Z/28 and putting non emissions legal, bad for durability mods on it to take on a Ferrari or Porsche.

This is one where if you can't have it both ways.....................you can't have the way that is to your advantage.

I look at these as simply what is the best an OEM can put forward. It's a measure of the OEM, not the aftermarket potential.

The end of the comparison on your side of the discussion has a lot of stickers on your car and TV time. That is the end of the modified vs. modified comparison.

Like I said, put the brakes and tires on the Z51 (that same 7 or 8,000 dollars)and you now have a $65,000 car that would likely take 2nd or 3rd place in this test and leave the Z/28 in the weeds (or at least a few seconds back ). And then you'll say but put that into the engine to get 600 HP in the Z/28 (and for an honest to goodness cost that's another 5,000) and I can put that right back into the Z51 and again be faster.

It's like a nuclear arms race.

And that's why this is fun

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I understand your perspective, but I don't agree.

For an individual your perspective is fine.

But when you are doing a magazine comparison like this, stock vs. stock is all that matters.

To take what you are saying to the other extreme, I can take a POS 10 year old Honda and put $50,000 into it and smoke the crap out of a ZL1. I don't like that comparison any more than I do taking a pristine Z/28 and putting non emissions legal, bad for durability mods on it to take on a Ferrari or Porsche.

This is one where if you can't have it both ways.....................you can't have the way that is to your advantage.

I look at these as simply what is the best an OEM can put forward. It's a measure of the OEM, not the aftermarket potential.

The end of the comparison on your side of the discussion has a lot of stickers on your car and TV time. That is the end of the modified vs. modified comparison.

Like I said, put the brakes and tires on the Z51 (that same 7 or 8,000 dollars)and you now have a $65,000 car that would likely take 2nd or 3rd place in this test and leave the Z/28 in the weeds (or at least a few seconds back ). And then you'll say but put that into the engine to get 600 HP in the Z/28 (and for an honest to goodness cost that's another 5,000) and I can put that right back into the Z51 and again be faster.

It's like a nuclear arms race.

And that's why this is fun

I understand by your coming from a vehicle manufacturer background you will see it that way. However yes I only see it from an individual perspective which means my money...I can't afford the 918 or others like it. Therefore if I want to play with the big boys I can only approach it from that direction.

You make this statement, "I look at these as simply what is the best an OEM can put forward. It's a measure of the OEM, not the aftermarket potential." I think in GM's case it's more what they prefer to build not what they can. So once again it comes down to money only on a different (corporate) level.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I understand by your coming from a vehicle manufacturer background you will see it that way. However yes I only see it from an individual perspective which means my money...I can't afford the 918 or others like it. Therefore if I want to play with the big boys I can only approach it from that direction.

You make this statement, "I look at these as simply what is the best an OEM can put forward. It's a measure of the OEM, not the aftermarket potential." I think in GM's case it's more what they prefer to build not what they can. So once again it comes down to money only on a different (corporate) level.

Can is the operative word.

There are clearly business limitations, as well as federal regulations that prevent the "ultimate".

But you and I also have business limitations.

If you have the means or the skills and don't care about warranty or resale, there is unlimited potential an individual can accomplish.

I think those efforts are wonderful. But now it's not a measure of the car it's the measure of either your personal skills or the size of number in your bank account. Those are also wonderful endeavors and I love to see those too.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Can is the operative word.

There are clearly business limitations, as well as federal regulations that prevent the "ultimate".

But you and I also have business limitations.

If you have the means or the skills and don't care about warranty or resale, there is unlimited potential an individual can accomplish.

I think those efforts are wonderful. But now it's not a measure of the car it's the measure of either your personal skills or the size of number in your bank account. Those are also wonderful endeavors and I love to see those too.

True. I'd love to see GM really let its hair down and see if they can compete with the "Best". Maybe the reality of the rumored mid-engined Ultra-Corvette will be the the answer???

I can say the C7 Z06 may be what I've been waiting for.

[LOWDOWN]

BTW, folks, after being pestered and coerced into revealing my "ride", I have decided to share ONE of my favorites. You can find it here:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...93#post7936672

[LOWDOWN]

From Bill Maguire and Mac's Motor City Garage, comes this "How The '67 Camaro Was Engineered" video. Enjoy!

http://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/2...e-1967-camaro/

[brt3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

BTW, folks, after being pestered and coerced into revealing my "ride", I have decided to share ONE of my favorites. You can find it here:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...93#post7936672

Wow. That is one sweet ride; forget the Z/28 and C7/Z06 -- you da' man!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ok so if I do engine work on those other cars then they would also still be faster.

That isn't a fair comparison.

Stock vs. stock or modified vs. modified.

Now the cost to "modify" a 918 or a Ferrari FF would be about the price of the Z/28................and probably the Z51 thrown in too.

In the case of the Z/28, the lack of HP is so obvious. The suspension, tires and brakes are so capable, more HP restores balance. Thr supporting systems are in place. Most other cars would require extensive work. You more than most know more HP is rarely a stand alone solution. The Z is so close...