[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Regarding the high beltline and the idea of an additional 1-2" of side glass/lower beltline: Everyone has an opinion about what it would 'do' to the current design but I am sure that the wide brush opinion of that it would 'ruin' it and turn the current model into a kidney grilled(?) BMW is just hyperbole that only the deepest of the faithful fanboys would tout. It would NOT ruin the design nor the character of the car.

Would it CHANGE it? Sure! But not ruin it. That's just 'the sky is falling' rhetoric.

Yes, a lot of people like the current design and good for them; I like MOST of it.

But the gun-slit windows and extremely high beltline are design flaws in MY OPINION and the car would have been even more awesome had they increased the side glass even just one measly inch and made it easier for driver/passenger to get their arm out.

Again, just my opinion.

Don't even start the discount crud. I got almost $4k off my Camaro.

Say what you want about "women" buying cars, it helps get Mustangs off the lot and money into Ford's pocket.

Mustang envy?!?!?! Hell yes. You know why?? It's selling and selling DAMN well. That is something to be envious about and if you aren't rooting for the same success for the Camaro what exactly are you rooting for?

[ChefBorOzzy]

I'd rather lay my arm on the door arm rest than out the window.. I place my left arm on the door when I'm driving in the Mustang and my arm has to be raised up, however, the arm rest is too low in the Mustang. From what I recall, it's in a much better location in the Camaro.. For me at least.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

I'd rather lay my arm on the door arm rest than out the window.. I place my left arm on the door when I'm driving in the Mustang and my arm has to be raised up, however, the arm rest is too low in the Mustang. From what I recall, it's in a much better location in the Camaro.. For me at least.

I found the door arm rest to be a good level in the Camaro too, just a bit too short. Then again I have long arms.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

I agree to an extent. The Camaro is what it is and will have to deal with it for the rest of the generation. Even with its shortcomings, it is still an amazing car. I freaking love it.

The issue you can't seem to get past is the profit and sales part. A company like GM would LOVE to sell as much if not more than the Mustang. To say they wouldn't.... I don't even know what to say.

A lot of people here assumed the Camaro would continue its sales success of liver the mustang or at least keep it close. Guess what, not happening.

Even if it makes profit, if they are competing with other brands and its main competitor, it could be looked at as a failure.

Of course they would like to sell more. Double. Triple, probably...back in the day there were hundreds of thousands of both Camaros and Mustangs, and others being sold every year. Today...the market has shrunk.

I'm not advocating that they don't want to sell more. I'm trying to point out that everyone is gunning for Mustang's sales figures as the metric. It would sure be nice...but what's more important is money in the bank. And I don't see GM sponsoring incentives on the cars, yet...and I know they're not about to leave sales/money on the table...so that suggests that they're at the very least, content with sales figures.

Could they spend some cash and move more cars...sure...but only if it means more money in the end...and it might not. We don't know.

Originally Posted by Raven87

Regarding the high beltline and the idea of an additional 1-2" of side glass/lower beltline: Everyone has an opinion about what it would 'do' to the current design but I am sure that the wide brush opinion of that it would 'ruin' it and turn the current model into a kidney grilled(?) BMW is just hyperbole that only the deepest of the faithful fanboys would tout. It would NOT ruin the design nor the character of the car.

Would it CHANGE it? Sure! But not ruin it. That's just 'the sky is falling' rhetoric.

Yes, a lot of people like the current design and good for them; I like MOST of it.

But the gun-slit windows and extremely high beltline are design flaws in MY OPINION and the car would have been even more awesome had they increased the side glass even just one measly inch and made it easier for driver/passenger to get their arm out.

Again, just my opinion.

Which is fair, and I'd never tell you your opinion is wrong.

What I will say is that I've spoken to designers and they like the chopped roof look. They like what the Camaro look is. Their customer research indicates that others like the look, too. So they didn't change it drastically from last generation. All those who predicted an evolutionary design like Porsche, Corvette, or Aston Martin were right. Stick with what works...

With that said, and hopefully, accepted...to try and force an improvement in visibility at least enough to be noticeable WOULD ruin the design in its current form that they're pursuing. It would ruin the style, because the structure under the car limits options to some unappealing ones. This is not my opinion, but parts of a conversation with the designers...

Remember, these are guys and gals that fight over millimeters here and there...

(Also...I'm not at all disheveled by the "fanboy" commentary. In case anybody's forgotten - this is a Camaro-focused website. You're going to find dedicated enthusiasts, here.

To clarify, It's my opinion that the M4's exterior looks like a jelly-bean...and it's not my opinion that the grille design is referred to as "kidneys"...)

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Of course they would like to sell more. Double. Triple, probably...back in the day there were hundreds of thousands of both Camaros and Mustangs, and others being sold every year. Today...the market has shrunk.

I'm not advocating that they don't want to sell more. I'm trying to point out that everyone is gunning for Mustang's sales figures as the metric. It would sure be nice...but what's more important is money in the bank. And I don't see GM sponsoring incentives on the cars, yet...and I know they're not about to leave sales/money on the table...so that suggests that they're at the very least, content with sales figures.

Could they spend some cash and move more cars...sure...but only if it means more money in the end...and it might not. We don't know.


Which is fair, and I'd never tell you your opinion is wrong.

What I will say is that I've spoken to designers and they like the chopped roof look. They like what the Camaro look is. Their customer research indicates that others like the look, too. So they didn't change it drastically from last generation. All those who predicted an evolutionary design like Porsche, Corvette, or Aston Martin were right. Stick with what works...

With that said, and hopefully, accepted...to try and force an improvement in visibility at least enough to be noticeable WOULD ruin the design in its current form that they're pursuing. It would ruin the style, because the structure under the car limits options to some unappealing ones. This is not my opinion, but parts of a conversation with the designers...

Remember, these are guys and gals that fight over millimeters here and there...

(Also...I'm not at all disheveled by the "fanboy" commentary. In case anybody's forgotten - this is a Camaro-focused website. You're going to find dedicated enthusiasts, here.

To clarify, It's my opinion that the M4's exterior looks like a jelly-bean...and it's not my opinion that the grille design is referred to as "kidneys"...)

There you go being logical again, lol. I suspect that it is just going to get lost in this thread....

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

So I'm presuming you have facts to back up these statements?

Or is it just baseless, sexist, alpha-bro level crap?

1) You really should read more than fanboy forums...It's all out there in industry and enthusiast publications.

2) Just Sitting on a curb and watching who's driving what will tell you all you need to know.

3) actually OWNING a Camaro would help your credibility..

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Modshack

1) You really should read more than fanboy forums...It's all out there in industry and enthusiast publications.

2) Just Sitting on a curb and watching who's driving what will tell you all you need to know.

3) actually OWNING a Camaro would help your credibility..

That's what I thought, nothing to back it up.

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by Modshack

1) You really should read more than fanboy forums...It's all out there in industry and enthusiast publications.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

That's what I thought, nothing to back it up.

I have no desire or time to educate you if you haven't taken the time to educate yourself..

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Modshack

I have no desire or time to educate you if you haven't taken the time to educate yourself..

Saying that the detailed break-down of fleet sales by engine and body type is "out there in trade and enthusiast magazines" and then not providing to a link to the online publication is basically equal to saying "it's out there but I'm not going to help you find it".

[chain777]

Originally Posted by Modshack

1) You really should read more than fanboy forums...It's all out there in industry and enthusiast publications.

2) Just Sitting on a curb and watching who's driving what will tell you all you need to know.

3) actually OWNING a Camaro would help your credibility..

I'm pretty sure it was established that the Camaro had a larger percentage of female buyers last generation than the Mustang. I haven't seen any figures for this generation. This was based on actual sales numbers btw, not sitting on curbs watching cars go by.

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by chain777

I'm pretty sure it was established that the Camaro had a larger percentage of female buyers last generation than the Mustang. I haven't seen any figures for this generation. This was based on actual sales numbers btw, not sitting on curbs watching cars go by.

digitaldealer.com/.../demographics-of-enthusiast-vehicle-owners-reveale...
2010-2013 Chevrolet Camaro: 22% of 5th generation Camaro owners are 35-44 years old, have an annual household income of $74,203 and 72% are male.

[G6CamJK]

Originally Posted by Quiksilver16ss

Anyone have visibility issues needs to get the convertible and keep it down!

That's what I'm doing!

If it rains I'll drive the Jeep

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Modshack

digitaldealer.com/.../demographics-of-enthusiast-vehicle-owners-reveale...
2010-2013 Chevrolet Camaro: 22% of 5th generation Camaro owners are 35-44 years old, have an annual household income of $74,203 and 72% are male.

Did you miss the 22% part?

So unless I'm misreading that sentence...72% of that 22% are male.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Did you miss the 22% part?

So unless I'm misreading that sentence...72% of that 22% are male.

No, pretty sure you're misreading that. 22% are 35-44 yrs old. 72% are male.