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Old 01-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #29
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I like the 1LE on the SS. It gives people who can't afford a ZL1 or possible Z28 better performance than a stock SS.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:37 PM   #30
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There is a much simpler solution, I don't think you really need a 1LE model on it's own. I think you only need 3 V8 models, SS, Z/28, ZL1, do an SS at 450hp, a Z/28 at 490 hp and a ZL1 at 525 hp. 1LE content would be on the Z/28.
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I think the gap between those 3 trims is too small.

The SS should be 450 (N/A 6.2 LT1) the z/28 should be 525 N/A 7.0 Ls7 replacement) and the ZL1 should be 615-630 Supercharged 6.2 LT4
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:38 PM   #31
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There is a much simpler solution, I don't think you really need a 1LE model on it's own. I think you only need 3 V8 models, SS, Z/28, ZL1, do an SS at 450hp, a Z/28 at 490 hp and a ZL1 at 525 hp. 1LE content would be on the Z/28.
Clyde
Now there's a thought. I like it (except the ZL1 would need to be monster-power to live up to its current reputation.)......But what if they can't devote time and money to giving the Z28 it's own engine? See, that was one of the constraints I put on my "dream world"...and it made it tough. What would you propose in that case?

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Understood.

I'm anything but a drag racer, but I think the perception between 3.7 and 3.5 seconds zero to 60 will be bigger than what the actual difference really amounts to, and that the bragging rights will matter to some. To others, under-estimating or underpreparing for the GT500 a second straight time wouldn't look good at all.

Never mind that most owners might never be able to match either number in 100% stock form or anywhere but on a prepped dragstrip, it's the perception that maybe they could . . .


Norm
Oh, I agree. I trust the Camaro Team to do what needs to be done. After all, they're the professionals, and they know a helluva lot more than I do about the competition and their own capabilities.

I just wrote down what I'd enjoy seeing.

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I like the 1LE on the SS. It gives people who can't afford a ZL1 or possible Z28 better performance than a stock SS.
+1. They did a great thing developing the 1LE package. Maybe they do it again in 6th-gen but don't call it 1LE?
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:52 PM   #32
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As for the Z28 engine, I wonder what the costs would be if GM to the LT1, CNC ported the heads, dropped in a slightly different cam and deactivated the AFM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #33
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As for the Z28 engine, I wonder what the costs would be if GM to the LT1, CNC ported the heads, dropped in a slightly different cam and deactivated the AFM.
Heads and cam would be subject to emissions more than cost...AFM deactivation is as simple as a computer reflash...but most all of the components will probably still be present, because the block was designed for it from the beginning.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:59 PM   #34
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Heads and cam would be subject to emissions more than cost...AFM deactivation is as simple as a computer reflash...but most all of the components will probably still be present, because the block was designed for it from the beginning.
The BOSS 302 got CNC heads and a new cams yet was emissions legal. No reason for GM not being able to do the same thing.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:12 PM   #35
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The BOSS 302 got CNC heads and a new cams yet was emissions legal. No reason for GM not being able to do the same thing.
I didn't say it was impossible. Just that the issue (if any) would most likely be due to emissions, and not cost. I say that because they say the one reason they can't do anything more to the LS7 like people were hoping for was/is emissions.

And there are a lot of things different between the way Ford and GM approaches powertrain...it's hard to compare the two apples for apples.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:20 PM   #36
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I would hope a 3700lb car with 615hp would be faster than 11.7
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:22 PM   #37
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I got a little bored this evening...and spent about an hour or so researching some of the cars on the market right now, like the Scion/Subaru RWD thingy, and the Cadillac ATS...to try and put together what I think could be a realistic lineup of Camaros for the next generation.

I had posted something like this a LONG time ago before the 5th-gen came out...and so I figured it might be fun, if nothing else, to do it again.

Just know...on the front end...I have NO idea if this is anywhere close to what's going on. I sincerely doubt even those who might be working on the car right now have things this nailed down. The content below is strictly guesswork done with some quick number crunching from today's cars...

Let me know what you think! Could be as fun a conversation as


In my fantasy land above...I'd seriously, seriously consider trading my 5th-gen ZL1 in for a 6th-gen Z28 w/ SS package, Carbon Fiber body panels, and all the trimmings...

Which would you pick? Is your dream 6th-gen lineup different?
Are you sure that's all you know about this issue .
The reason is that I can put my hands on something and mix it with Tequila , plus A secret ingredient .
Then you will sing like Pavarotti .
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:22 PM   #38
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I think the gap between those 3 trims is too small.

The SS should be 450 (N/A 6.2 LT1) the z/28 should be 525 N/A 7.0 Ls7 replacement) and the ZL1 should be 615-630 Supercharged 6.2 LT4
I don't think the gaps are all that small in an Alpha chassis 6th gen Camaro. Why would an Alpha ZL1 need 615-630 hp on the lighter Alpha chassis when the current ZL1 is about 580? At most I could see SS 450hp, Z/28 500hp and ZL1 550hp given that Alpha should produce versions that weigh in the neighborhood of 300 lb less than current models. Lets be realistic here, many people on the road need to be driving a 200hp version as that is all their poor driving skills can handle. 450+ hp is a lot more hp than the average driver needs to deal with. I'm all for high performance and plenty of hp, but I just don't see the need for most everyone with a V8 having 500+ hp.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #39
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Are you sure that's all you know about this issue .
The reason is that I can put my hands on something and mix it with Tequila , plus A secret ingredient .
Then you will sing like Pavarotti .
I promise! I know nothing.

Because you know what I always say: Those who know something, don't talk. And since I don't know anything - I'm free to speculate just like the 'days of old'.

Thought I'd have a little fun with this thread. What's MOST interesting to me...is that nobody, so far, has had a cow over the 4-cylinder turbo model.

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I don't think the gaps are all that small in an Alpha chassis 6th gen Camaro. Why would an Alpha ZL1 need 615-630 hp on the lighter Alpha chassis when the current ZL1 is about 580? At most I could see SS 450hp, Z/28 500hp and ZL1 550hp given that Alpha should produce versions that weigh in the neighborhood of 300 lb less than current models. Lets be realistic here, many people on the road need to be driving a 200hp version as that is all their poor driving skills can handle. 450+ hp is a lot more hp than the average driver needs to deal with. I'm all for high performance and plenty of hp, but I just don't see the need for most everyone with a V8 having 500+ hp.
Clyde
You know...you have a point.

Rumor has it the CTS-V will be getting bigger...which means heavier. To keep the same performance and compete against BMW and Audi, it'll need more power than the current LSA can offer.

Rumor also has it that the Corvette will once more (eventually) have a Z06 and ZR1 models. Looks like the car didn't get significantly lighter as we had thoguht, so both will need more power than the current LS9...in order to improve and compete.

In my mind...this offers some interesting benefits for Camaro....

The LT1 engine we know has 450+hp, and increased efficiency...if the above rumors are true, I think it would be common sense that they'll develop an engine with ~540-550 hp for the C7 Z06, and another in the neighborhood of ~660-700hp, to replace the LS9 for the C7 ZR1, and the next-gen Cadillac CTS...

Since we're pretty sure we know the Camaro will be based on the Alpha platform due to the Lansing Grand River announcement...we can assume it'll get a little smaller and lighter.

So...The 450+hp LT1 can power an entry-level V8 model, call it SS for now...

The ~550hp Z06 engine can power the lighter, Camaro ZL1...

And perhaps the Z28 can be a model that tweaks the engine with some intake/exhaust components to increase output of the LT1 SS by 20-30hp, incorporates features from the hypothetical ZL1 like carbon fiber components & other weight-saving features, MR suspension, drivetrain components, and sticky/big wheels & tires.

Then, the 1LE package, if offered, would simply be what it is today...a competiton-legal "track pack" for the SS.

What do you think wildpaws? I appreciate your input on this model name thing....and what they should be.


I admit....I REALLY want to own a Z28 Camaro...but I don't need the power or cost of a ZL1 to get it...
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:51 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
I promise! I know nothing.

Because you know what I always say: Those who know something, don't talk. And since I don't know anything - I'm free to speculate just like the 'days of old'.

Thought I'd have a little fun with this thread. What's MOST interesting to me...is that nobody, so far, has had a cow over the 4-cylinder turbo model.



You know...you have a point.

Rumor has it the CTS-V will be getting bigger...which means heavier. To keep the same performance and compete against BMW and Audi, it'll need more power than the current LSA can offer.

Rumor also has it that the Corvette will once more (eventually) have a Z06 and ZR1 models. Looks like the car didn't get significantly lighter as we had thoguht, so both will need more power than the current LS9...in order to improve and compete.

In my mind...this offers some interesting benefits for Camaro....

The LT1 engine we know has 450+hp, and increased efficiency...if the above rumors are true, I think it would be common sense that they'll develop an engine with ~540-550 hp for the C7 Z06, and another in the neighborhood of ~660-700hp, to replace the LS9 for the C7 ZR1, and the next-gen Cadillac CTS...

Since we're pretty sure we know the Camaro will be based on the Alpha platform due to the Lansing Grand River announcement...we can assume it'll get a little smaller and lighter.

So...The 450+hp LT1 can power an entry-level V8 model, call it SS for now...

The ~550hp Z06 engine can power the lighter, Camaro ZL1...

And perhaps the Z28 can be a model that tweaks the engine with some intake/exhaust components to increase output of the LT1 SS by 20-30hp, incorporates features from the hypothetical ZL1 like carbon fiber components & other weight-saving features, MR suspension, drivetrain components, and sticky/big wheels & tires.

Then, the 1LE package, if offered, would simply be what it is today...a competiton-legal "track pack" for the SS.

What do you think wildpaws? I appreciate your input on this model name thing....and what they should be.


I admit....I REALLY want to own a Z28 Camaro...but I don't need the power or cost of a ZL1 to get it...
I wholeheartedly agree that a new Z/28 should not have ZL1 type pricing! Going back to gen 1 (which I'm most familar with), Z/28 and SS pricing were very close and often the SS ended up more expensive due to having options on it you could not get on the Z/28 like air conditioning, convertible, etc. So often the Z/28 was a better performance value. If the SS were to get a +/- 450hp LT1, I think a tweaked LT1 for a Z/28 would need to be more in the 480-490 hp range. Just as I think a 5th gen Z/28 would need the LS7 at 505 hp to be properly powered, I think a 6th gen Z/28 would need that 480-490 hp. I'm open to discussing more, but I've got to take care of a phone call atm.
Clyde
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:42 PM   #41
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You guys want a Z28 so badly that you're throwing the SS out of the lineup.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:55 PM   #42
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hopefully chevy feels comfortable with the direct injection vvt lt1 in the vette and the camaro gets it as a handmedown for 6th gen. a z28 both current gen and next with a ls7 would be sweet as well. hopefully chevy makes a supercharged vette in next couple of years so the next gen camaro can release a zl1 2 years in to the gen with that handmedown as well.
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