[Speedofsound]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

1992-not on top of game
1993-2002 on top of game
2003-2009 not on top of game
2010-on top of game
2011-2015-not on top of game
2016-2017-on top of game

13 out of 26=%50 != vast majority or majority at all.

got eemm!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I am comparing it to the LS3. The LS3 carries its torque further in the band. The LT1 dumps it’s torque advantage by redline. If the LT1 carried its torque like the LS3 and LS7, it could be 10+ rwhp.

Glass half full or glass half empty. The LS3 just carries less torque is my point.

The LTI has a torque peak whereas the LS3 is flat. The LT1, even at the extreme of its "nose over" at 6,100 rpm, still matches the LS3 at its peak. The LT1 has an advantage over the LS3 everywhere

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

1992-not on top of game
1993-2002 on top of game
2003-2009 not on top of game
2010-on top of game
2011-2015-not on top of game
2016-2017-on top of game

13 out of 26=%50 != vast majority or majority at all.

SMH, you really do have a hard time keeping up don't you? Either that or you just like to play dumb. The vast majority of the past quarter of a century for the time it was in production. Counting back 25 model years from the 2018 which is out now, that puts us back to 1993. Take away the model years that the Camaro was not in production and that means that for the vast majority of the past 25 model years, during the time the Camaro was in production, it was better than the Mustang GT. Like I asked you before, name one year that the GT was better than any V8 Camaro during the time the Camaro was in production in the past 25 years. Since you dodged answering that I'll answer for you. The only years you'd be able to count is 11-14 which is 4 model years. So from 93-02 there was no GT that was faster than any V8 F-body. That is 10 model years. In 15 they were tied. 16 and 17 the GT was again much slower. So that is 12 model years of the Camaro being better. And I'll even go as far as saying the 02 Z28 SS was faster than every GT from 2002-2010, lol!! So after the 4th Gen Z28 SS ceased production it was still faster than every Mustang GT for the next 8 model years, lol!! Explain that one.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Glass half full or glass half empty. The LS3 just carries less torque is my point.

The LTI has a torque peak whereas the LS3 is flat. The LT1, even at the extreme of its "nose over" at 6,100 rpm, still matches the LS3 at its peak. The LT1 has an advantage over the LS3 everywhere

The LT1 should beat the LS3 engine. It’s the brand new result of a billion dollar engine program. My point was not to compare the numbers but the curve line itself. Peaks aren’t great. Area under the curve is great. The LS3 has a nice, smooth, flat torque curve and carries it well to redline. If the LT1 carries its torque as well, it would be a 475 hp engine.

I’m not saying the LT1 is a sh*t engine. I’m just saying there is something going on at 4800 rpm that causes it to run out of air. It could be headroom for a new engine. It could be emissions. It could be the lack of displacement, relative to the LS7.

[Speedofsound]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

SMH, you really do have a hard time keeping up don't you? Either that or you just like to play dumb. The vast majority of the past quarter of a century for the time it was in production. Counting back 25 model years from the 2018 which is out now, that puts us back to 1993. Take away the model years that the Camaro was not in production and that means that for the vast majority of the past 25 model years, during the time the Camaro was in production, it was better than the Mustang GT. Like I asked you before, name one year that the GT was better than any V8 Camaro during the time the Camaro was in production in the past 25 years. Since you dodged answering that I'll answer for you. The only years you'd be able to count is 11-14 which is 4 model years. So from 93-02 there was no GT that was faster than any V8 F-body. That is 10 model years. In 15 they were tied. 16 and 17 the GT was again much slower. So that is 12 model years of the Camaro being better. And I'll even go as far as saying the 02 Z28 SS was faster than every GT from 2002-2010, lol!! So after the 4th Gen Z28 SS ceased production it was still faster than every Mustang GT for the next 8 model years, lol!! Explain that one.

hmmm, there was no real competition.

[lt4camaro]

Do not know if anyone noticed, but Ford stuck in a 3.55 gear to go along with the 10 speed auto which by the way has the exact same gear ratio's as the 10 speed in the ZL1. But not so smart Chevrolet limits the rear gear to 2.85 with the 10 speed. If it were not for the 3.55's the stang wouldn't be in the low 12's. Put a 3.55 in the Camaro with the 8 speed auto , never mind the 10 speed auto and watch what happens...bu by Ford.

[Speedofsound]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Do not know if anyone noticed, but Ford stuck in a 3.55 gear to go along with the 10 speed auto which by the way has the exact same gear ratio's as the 10 speed in the ZL1. But not so smart Chevrolet limits the rear gear to 2.85 with the 10 speed. If it were not for the 3.55's the stang wouldn't be in the low 12's. Put a 3.55 in the Camaro with the 8 speed auto , never mind the 10 speed auto and watch what happens...bu by Ford.

Ford has always used a steeper gear as a torque multiplicator, makes up for the lack of torque from having a smaller displacement/shorter stroke.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Speedofsound

Ford has always used a steeper gear as a torque multiplicator, makes up for the lack of torque from having a smaller displacement/shorter stroke.

aka...feminine powerband

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Speedofsound

hmmm, there was no real competition.

Sure there was. The Pontiac GTO showed up on the scene. The 350Z was faster than the GT and out-cornered them back then. The Challengers and Chargers were out. The Impreza WRX STi was outrunning and out-handling them. There was the Evo which was beating the GT. In fact, in the years following the Camaro's end of production, the Mustang GT was among the slowest and worst handling performance related cars in production. They had plenty of competition.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Do not know if anyone noticed, but Ford stuck in a 3.55 gear to go along with the 10 speed auto which by the way has the exact same gear ratio's as the 10 speed in the ZL1. But not so smart Chevrolet limits the rear gear to 2.85 with the 10 speed. If it were not for the 3.55's the stang wouldn't be in the low 12's. Put a 3.55 in the Camaro with the 8 speed auto , never mind the 10 speed auto and watch what happens...bu by Ford.

I wouldn't criticize GM for putting 2.85s with the A10 ZL1. They built the entire car to work extremely well as a whole. The gearing may be numerically small, but the compression of the engine, the characteristics of a pushrod engine, and the fast spinning 1.7 liter blower (allowing it to hit boost very quickly and early on) all help it accelerate as fast as it does while maintaining low cruising RPMs. Which equates to the ZL1's high top speed, decent gas mileage, and accounts for how it still does a low 11 bone stock. So all of that says a lot. Ford had to put numerically higher gears in the GT because it lacks torque down low and is NA. So it needs those gears to make up for it's inadequacies.

Originally Posted by Speedofsound

Ford has always used a steeper gear as a torque multiplicator, makes up for the lack of torque from having a smaller displacement/shorter stroke.

Yea and then they gave it crappy suspension components and it could never get the power it did have to the ground effectively and is usually why it loses control, spins out, and goes crowd plowing. And that is why they need DRs (and a whole bunch of other mods) to keep up with the competition. And then you're stuck in a car that cruises at 3000 RPM and drones like a m-f'er.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

1992-not on top of game
1993-2002 on top of game
2003-2009 not on top of game
2010-on top of game
2011-2015-not on top of game
2016-2017-on top of game

13 out of 26=%50 != vast majority or majority at all.

+1

On top of that, everyone likes to ignore the Cobras and GT500's that have been crushing it too. Ford and GM choose a different way of doing things and offering their vehicles. Both have their merits.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Zeke.Malvo]

Ford uses gearing to take advantage of it's extended powerband. While the LT1 falls on its face early on and calls it quits, the 5.0 keeps going.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Ford uses gearing to take advantage of it's extended powerband. While the LT1 falls on its face early on and calls it quits, the 5.0 keeps going.

Lol

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

+1

On top of that, everyone likes to ignore the Cobras and GT500's that have been crushing it too. Ford and GM choose a different way of doing things and offering their vehicles. Both have their merits.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

True, the Cobras and GT500s and other top models have been crushing it. Nobody denied that. My argument was that the GT is lame.

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Ford uses gearing to take advantage of it's extended powerband. While the LT1 falls on its face early on and calls it quits, the 5.0 keeps going.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Except that by the time the LT1 has fallen on it's face it is doing a low 12. And while the 5.0 keeps going it is barely breaking into the 12s. And the SS falls flat on it's face while running circles around the GT on a track.