Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > CAMARO6.com General Forums > Z/28 Discussions


Phastek Performance


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-04-2016, 02:04 PM   #43
DenverTaco07


 
DenverTaco07's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2017 Volt, 2013 Pilot
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
I'm sure the increased weight is also an issue. It's higher on the engine and at the front of car. If you decrease the overall weight of the car, that will magnify the extra weight of the engine as well.

As for the rest, I guess that is for Al O and the team to decide. Whatever they build, I'm sure it will be an excellent performer. I would just prefer it to be n/a, even though I will likely never be able to afford one.
Well they have certainly done a good job keeping the suspense up!

They may surprise everyone with a new motor, or a tricked out LT1 I suppose.
DenverTaco07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2016, 03:02 PM   #44
Jeffro19

 
Jeffro19's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 6M, Silverado High Country
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 2,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
Well they have certainly done a good job keeping the suspense up!

They may surprise everyone with a new motor, or a tricked out LT1 I suppose.
Yeah I'm thinking a hopped up LT1 with around 530hp. Just enough to edge out the GT350.
__________________
Previous Camaro's - 2002 Z28 6 spd manual, T tops, Sebring Silver - 2010 2SS 6 spd manual, Cyber Gray Metallic

Current Vehicles - 2018 ZL1 Red Hot 6 spd manual, Carbon Hood, Sunroof
2019 Silverado High Country, Daily Driver
Jeffro19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 02:44 PM   #45
pharmd
Master of Medicine
 
pharmd's Avatar
 
Drives: 4th Gen
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Yes ... if you are concerned about horsepower numbers on paper.

In reality, a regular old SS powered by an LT1 is almost as quick in a straight line as the GT350. An extra 70 or 80 hp would be great ... but its not essential, performance wise.
Based on the fact the ZL1 ring time was only 2.59 quicker and had 124 more horsepower and 221 more lb-ft TQ, I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think they will be able to reduce the weight nor increase the handling "that" much more to negate the need for a decent HP advantage.

What also surprises me is how much faster the GS Vette is than the 1LE on the C&D lightening lap...similar power, only around 300lb difference, but 7 seconds faster. There is definitely a price to be paid for having a back seat.
__________________
2002 Camaro SS. 408 LS2. 500+RWHP/480RWTQ. Full UMI RR suspension. Koni/Strano. 295F/315R. 3500#(55/45)
pharmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 02:51 PM   #46
Jeffro19

 
Jeffro19's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 6M, Silverado High Country
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 2,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmd View Post
Based on the fact the ZL1 ring time was only 2.59 quicker and had 124 more horsepower and 221 more lb-ft TQ, I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think they will be able to reduce the weight nor increase the handling "that" much more to negate the need for a decent HP advantage.

What also surprises me is how much faster the GS Vette is than the 1LE on the C&D lightening lap...similar power, only around 300lb difference, but 7 seconds faster. There is definitely a price to be paid for having a back seat.
I didnt know the GT350 had a ring time?? Video?
__________________
Previous Camaro's - 2002 Z28 6 spd manual, T tops, Sebring Silver - 2010 2SS 6 spd manual, Cyber Gray Metallic

Current Vehicles - 2018 ZL1 Red Hot 6 spd manual, Carbon Hood, Sunroof
2019 Silverado High Country, Daily Driver
Jeffro19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 02:55 PM   #47
sdmcss
 
sdmcss's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE, 1985 MCSS
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 266
The LT376/535 is the Crate Motor Chevy had on display at 2016 SEMA-New Products in the South Hall. This is a Crate Motor you can drop into your old busted chevy to give it new life. They are replacing the LS376 with this motor... Nothing more.

This is separate than the LT5, I asked while I was there.
sdmcss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2016, 03:26 PM   #48
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 6,987
Even if it was the LT5, they weren't going to tell you. There is a reason its called LT376 and not LTx. It's a crate motor and won't go in any car from the factory.
__________________

Last edited by Bhobbs; 11-08-2016 at 03:48 PM.
Bhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 01:37 PM   #49
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,372
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmd View Post
Based on the fact the ZL1 ring time was only 2.59 quicker and had 124 more horsepower and 221 more lb-ft TQ, I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think they will be able to reduce the weight nor increase the handling "that" much more to negate the need for a decent HP advantage.

What also surprises me is how much faster the GS Vette is than the 1LE on the C&D lightening lap...similar power, only around 300lb difference, but 7 seconds faster. There is definitely a price to be paid for having a back seat.
There is no verified 'ring time for the GT350R. So it is not 'fact' that its 2.59 seconds quicker than the ZL1. Could it be faster? Sure. Could it not be? Sure. But either way, the Nurburgring is a handling circuit first and foremost. Yes, there is that massive back straight but the track rewards handling much more than power/acceleration.

As for improving the handling of the Camaro ... why can't it be better? There is nothing 'special' about the GT350 that gives it any sort of inherent & insurmountable handling advantage over the Camaro. It wights 3700 lbs with a 54/46 weight distribution. Ford gave it big fat sticky tires over light weight wheels, a track tuned suspension, and some aero bits. Nothing in there that GM can't do just as well or better with a Z/28.

And if you think the only difference between a Grand Sport and a 1LE is 300 lbs of weight, you are sorely mistaken.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 06:32 PM   #50
Memphis
 
Drives: Bucket
Join Date: May 2009
Location: US
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffro19 View Post
I didnt know the GT350 had a ring time?? Video?
There isn't. The ring time he is referencing was made up by Horsepowerkings, they've done that a few times.
Memphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 07:16 PM   #51
pharmd
Master of Medicine
 
pharmd's Avatar
 
Drives: 4th Gen
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 784
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
There is no verified 'ring time for the GT350R. So it is not 'fact' that its 2.59 seconds quicker than the ZL1. Could it be faster? Sure. Could it not be? Sure. But either way, the Nurburgring is a handling circuit first and foremost. Yes, there is that massive back straight but the track rewards handling much more than power/acceleration.

As for improving the handling of the Camaro ... why can't it be better? There is nothing 'special' about the GT350 that gives it any sort of inherent & insurmountable handling advantage over the Camaro. It wights 3700 lbs with a 54/46 weight distribution. Ford gave it big fat sticky tires over light weight wheels, a track tuned suspension, and with some aero bits. Nothing in there that GM can't do just as well or better with a Z/28.

And if you think the only difference between a Grand Sport and a 1LE is 300 lbs of weight, you are sorely mistaken.

My original point was made in reference to saying the camaro wouldn't need a horsepower advantage. I too would hope it wouldn't but based upon the lighting lap times (http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature) and the "unverified" ring time (https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/) (and other comparisons: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/...t350r-mustang/) for Chevy to have a DECIDED victory, IMHO they need to bring some HP to the party. My interpretation from your comment was "the Z will handle the mustang easy"...if i read into that correctly I would respectfully disagree (if I misinterpreted your point I apologize). I think the Z28 if developed will be faster, but the 350R has thoroughly surprised me and makes the mustang no longer a road course joke (like the BOSS). If the "unverified" ring time is even close, IMHO it illustrates my point as the ZL1 with most of the suspension tricks from the previous Z28 and a ton more power, was only marginally faster.

BTW, i never said the handling of the Camaro couldn't be better? I would actually expect it to be better as GM has repeatedly shown the ability to set up a road course car that flies time and time again. My point again, is that it appears, on this 350R at least, that Ford has stepped up and made a very competitive package.

The point i was attempting to make regarding the SS 1LE and the Vette GS is that THERE ARE inherent differences beyond weight and power (obviously) to reflect such a huge difference in lap times at VIR. I understand it, but I don't have to like it. I would expect maybe a 3 second per lap difference, but it just shows how much more of a purpose built package the vette offers in terms of its chassis characteristics (CG, roll center, wheel/tire package etc) and aero. I'll sacrifice the difference for the back seat so my boys can roll with me in their car seats, but I do wish the potential between the 2 platforms wasn't as great.
__________________
2002 Camaro SS. 408 LS2. 500+RWHP/480RWTQ. Full UMI RR suspension. Koni/Strano. 295F/315R. 3500#(55/45)
pharmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 09:27 PM   #52
Jeffro19

 
Jeffro19's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 6M, Silverado High Country
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 2,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
There isn't. The ring time he is referencing was made up by Horsepowerkings, they've done that a few times.
O I know
__________________
Previous Camaro's - 2002 Z28 6 spd manual, T tops, Sebring Silver - 2010 2SS 6 spd manual, Cyber Gray Metallic

Current Vehicles - 2018 ZL1 Red Hot 6 spd manual, Carbon Hood, Sunroof
2019 Silverado High Country, Daily Driver
Jeffro19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2016, 02:15 AM   #53
Memphis
 
Drives: Bucket
Join Date: May 2009
Location: US
Posts: 111
The Z/28 is down on power, weighed more and was still faster at VIR. The 6th gen is a thorn in Ford's side, it's no coincidence at all that there hasn't been an SS vs GT350 comparison at a track. I'm confident that even a Z/28 at 500hp like the last gen would come out on top.
Memphis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2016, 06:51 AM   #54
ST1LE


 
ST1LE's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
The Z/28 is down on power, weighed more and was still faster at VIR. The 6th gen is a thorn in Ford's side, it's no coincidence at all that there hasn't been an SS vs GT350 comparison at a track. I'm confident that even a Z/28 at 500hp like the last gen would come out on top.
I agree 100%. The Alpha is a FAR superior chassis to the 350 configuration in any form, and the 1LE nipping at the R's heels proves that.

And extra 45 HP, and likely additional weight loss over the 1LE is enough IMHO to overcome the R.

As said above the 350 is quite a competitor, but Ford is behind an entire generation IMO. They are basically just one upping the 5th Gen Camaro at this point, and that simply isn't enough to be top dog.
__________________
SOLD - 2013 1LE - Pat G Spec'd Cam, NPP with 1 7/8" Long Tube Headers with High Flow Cats, Intake w/scoop, Ported Throttle Body, and Apex 1.25" Lowering Springs.
J-Rod Built and Matt@FSP Tuned
ST1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2016, 07:19 AM   #55
Raven87
C'mon- really?
 
Raven87's Avatar
 
Drives: Looking for a ZL1
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nortwestern Ohio
Posts: 1,966
For me, I would prefer the next Z/28 retain the N/A configuration but get a few more ponies, say up to ~525-ish or a few more.

This should be doable with the LT1 using upgraded intake, heads, cam, tuning, and exhaust and still meet emissions while avoiding (hopefully) the GG Tax. And, if GM can get its track weight down to 3500-3600 lbs, even better.
__________________
Steve
2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE Black #3805 - SOLD
Raven87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2016, 12:03 PM   #56
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 25,372
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven87 View Post
For me, I would prefer the next Z/28 retain the N/A configuration but get a few more ponies, say up to ~525-ish or a few more.

This should be doable with the LT1 using upgraded intake, heads, cam, tuning, and exhaust and still meet emissions while avoiding (hopefully) the GG Tax. And, if GM can get its track weight down to 3500-3600 lbs, even better.
Getting to the 35XX weight range would be nice for sure, but considering that the 5th gen Z/28 didn't quite save 100 lbs from the SS, getting 100 out of the 6th gen would be at the upper limit of what I'd expect. Certainly possible if they focus a bit more on mass reduction. But I could also easily see them not going the 'hardcore' route this time and keeping the trunk carpet and the speakers and so on, which would obviously make it a lot harder to cut 100+ lbs.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.