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Old 01-20-2013, 08:00 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
You guys want a Z28 so badly that you're throwing the SS out of the lineup.
I don't think I've seen anybody here throw the SS out of the lineup! 1LE? I have no problem with that falling out of the lineup.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:23 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I don't think I've seen anybody here throw the SS out of the lineup! 1LE? I have no problem with that falling out of the lineup.
Clyde
I did. Going back to the third gen when RS was a model.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
My dream sixth gen lineup.

Camaro 1LT- 330 HP/318 lbs. TQ NA V-6 24/32 MPG
standard steelie wheels, mylink- MSRP-$23,500
2LT adds leather, HUD, upgraded wheels (different from RS wheels), upgraded audio etc.- MSRP- $27,000

Camaro 1RS- 385 HP/410 lbs. TQ 5.3L V-8 21/29 MPG
unique wheels, hood, and spoiler standard- MSRP- $31,000
2RS adds leather, HUD, upgraded audio- MSRP- $34,000

*note* LT and RS models use same 6-speed auto or manual trans (no charge for auto in these models)

Camaro Z28- 462 HP/ 450 lbs. TQ 6.2L LT1 18/27 MPG
7 speed TREMEC standard, auto trans $1300 upgrade
standard leather seats (cloth available for $750 discount), painted rally stripes (stripe delete $900 discount), forced induction/heat extracting hood, brake cooling vents in front of rear wheels- MSRP- $38,900

1LE performance package(available on LT, RS, and Z28)
MR shocks, upgraded sways and bushings, 3:91 rear gears, trans and differential cooler, PTM similar to Stingray, electronic limited slip from Stingray, dry sump oiling, Good Year Super Car F1 gen 3 tires, 6 piston Brembos for RS and Z28, 4 piston Brembos for LT, 1LE package doesn't change wheels except for giving them a black finish- MSRP -$4800

ZL1- 620HP/660 lbs. TQ supercharged LT4 15/21 MPG
all equipment from Z28 with 1LE with substantially different body work, unique wheels/tires


stand alone options:

Vert available on all models, removable roof panel-MSRP- $1200, Vinyl rally stripes-MSRP- $500, NPP exhaust-MSRP- $900
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I don't think I've seen anybody here throw the SS out of the lineup! 1LE? I have no problem with that falling out of the lineup.
Clyde
Check out this one. Where's the SS?
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
You guys want a Z28 so badly that you're throwing the SS out of the lineup.
You have no idea how much the Z28 moniker means to me. Problem is...I'm at odds with myself...I want all my goodies like MR, leather, HUD, etc, too...and in the first-generation, the Z28 was limited in options...

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hopefully chevy feels comfortable with the direct injection vvt lt1 in the vette and the camaro gets it as a handmedown for 6th gen. a z28 both current gen and next with a ls7 would be sweet as well. hopefully chevy makes a supercharged vette in next couple of years so the next gen camaro can release a zl1 2 years in to the gen with that handmedown as well.
It's almost guaranteed, unless there's an upgraded engine out by the time we see a new Camaro...think LS2 v LS3...One of the benefits of being a Chevrolet is that you get all the same shiney toys as other Chevy's.

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I don't think I've seen anybody here throw the SS out of the lineup! 1LE? I have no problem with that falling out of the lineup.
Clyde
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
I did. Going back to the third gen when RS was a model.


Give me a moment...I've got a "modification" to my original post.....
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:36 PM   #47
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Check out this one. Where's the SS?
I also think it would be cool to save SS for a generation to give us something to look forward to. That way they wouldn't have to come up with a new moniker. Want to drive a HJ9 Camaro?
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:46 PM   #48
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Check out this one. Where's the SS?
Gee, I never even missed the SS in that, what does that tell you about my feelings for the SS?
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
You have no idea how much the Z28 moniker means to me. Problem is...I'm at odds with myself...I want all my goodies like MR, leather, HUD, etc, too...and in the first-generation, the Z28 was limited in options...


It's almost guaranteed, unless there's an upgraded engine out by the time we see a new Camaro...think LS2 v LS3...One of the benefits of being a Chevrolet is that you get all the same shiney toys as other Chevy's.







Give me a moment...I've got a "modification" to my original post.....
In the first gen. Z/28 I think you could get almost all of the interior upgrades, you just could not get convertible, auto tranny and air conditioning. You could get all of the interior upgrade packages, upgrade seat covering, console, gauges, rosewood trim and steering wheel, etc. So you could equip a Z/28 exactly like an SS with the exception of vert, auto tranny and ac. And I see no reason why it should not be so today.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:08 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
In the first gen. Z/28 I think you could get almost all of the interior upgrades, you just could not get convertible, auto tranny and air conditioning. You could get all of the interior upgrade packages, upgrade seat covering, console, gauges, rosewood trim and steering wheel, etc. So you could equip a Z/28 exactly like an SS with the exception of vert, auto tranny and ac. And I see no reason why it should not be so today.
Clyde
Then I'm very much ready to buy a Z28 6th-gen. Hear that Camaro Team??

In fact...as read below - that is my dream Z28...and I'd equip the optional carbon fiber body panels, and comfort stuff in a heartbeat.

And....if the SS were to get chopped off the list, the Z28 below would fill that void, with an upgrade package for the standard engine treatment I outline. ...Remember, Mark Reuss seems not to like putting that name on anything but the best of the best...and Camaro already has names for the best of the best: Z28 and ZL1...so, I suppose it is reasonable to prepare for a lapse in the SS model...maybe....

Anyways, as follows...my modified "dream list" after discussing with you all and checking my research & math on numbers...:

Quote:
Size: 183” L, 72” W, 53” H
Driver sits lower. Maintains “chopped” roof.

Camaro LS - > Competes with: Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Subaru/Toyota RWD love-child frs/brz.
Weight: 3290 lbs
Standard Engine: Turbo 4-cylinder (275hp, 265lbs tq)
Estimated performance: 0-60: 5.9 sec, ž mile: 14.2, .90g
MPG: 20city/33hwy
Cost: $23,500
Optional RS performance package, adds: Brembo 4-piston brakes, more aggressively geared rear differential, performance summer tire, and a few special-treatment appearance modifications like spoilers, etc. (Cost: $3000)

Performance package increases performance to 0-60: 5.8 sec, 1/4 mile: 14.1, .95g

Camaro LT - > Competes with Hyundai Genesis Coupe V6, Nissan 370z, Ford Mustang V6
Weight: 3450
Standard Engine: Turbo 3.6L (390hp, 350lbs tq)
Estimated Performance: 0-60: 4.6, ž mile: 13.1, .90g
MPG 18/28
Cost: $27,500
Optional RS performance package, adds: Brembo 4-piston brakes, more aggressively geared rear differential, performance summer tire, and a few special-treatment appearance modifications like spoilers, etc. (Cost: $3000)

Performance package increases performance to 0-60: 4.5 sec, 1/4 mile: 12.9, .95g

Camaro SS - > Competes with: Ford Mustang GT, Dodge Challenger
Weight: 3530 lbs
Standard Engine: Gen V LT1 V8 (460hp, 450lbs tq)
Estimated Performance: 0-60: 4.2 sec 0-60, ž mile: 12.3, .95g
MPG: 17/26
Cost: $33,500
Standard: 19” wheels, some aluminum components, wider wheels/tires, performance gearing, Brembo Brakes, limited slip.

Optional 1LE package available on base trim levels: Similar to current 1LE package, cost $3700 (increases performance to 0-60: 4.2 sec, ž mile: 12.2, 1.05g). Competition-legal components.

Optional items include: NPP exhaust, upper-level trim (ie 2SS), big wheels, sunroof, stripes, etc, etc

Camaro Z28 -> Competes with ? ?
Weight: 3500 lbs
Standard Engine: Gen V LT1 V8 (485hp, 470 lbs tq) *
Estimated Performance: 0-60: 4.0 sec 0-60, ž mile: 12.0, 1.1g
MPG: 18/26
Cost: $42,000
Standard: leather/suede sport seats (see C7 Vette), Magnetic Ride Control, split-spoke 19” wheels w/ max performance summer tires, Driver Mode Selector (DMS from C7 Corvette), HUD, performance applications in DIC, strengthened drivetrain, aluminum fenders/doors and suspension components (where applicable), big brakes.

*“HO LT1” engine…improved intake/exhaust components, higher redline, performance tune.

Optional: Carbon fiber roof and hood, NPP Exhaust, Interior comfort & convenience (ie 2Z trim level), stripes & other appearance,

Camaro ZL1 - > Decimates: Mustang GT500 (?), anyone else wanna play?
Weight: 3600
Standard Engine: Gen V “LTx” TTV8 (650-700)
Estimated Performance: 0-60 3.5, ž mile: 11.5, 1.1g
MPG: 15/22
Cost: $60,000+
Standard: Fully loaded, basically a Z28 with all options, Corvette ZR1’s engine, advanced aerodynamic treatment.
I wonder if the Z28 would undermine the ZL1s status....but I suppose if it were given the bad-assesst engine GM had at the time, that could help...

**A note on weight: When GM took the CTS sedan and turned it into a coupe, it lost weight. Likewise, when GM took the Zeta G8 and turned it into a Camaro, they dropped approximately 144 lbs from model to model...I cut that number in half and applied the same concept to the ATS for the LS model's weight.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:53 AM   #51
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My feelings on the "SS" handle is that since it started with the Impala SS and SS396 Chevelles before the Camaro even existed and has been applied all over the Chevrolet lineup, it's the least "Camaro" and most "diluted" name in the bunch - and by implication the easiest one to retire (or at least put on hiatus).


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Old 01-21-2013, 12:19 PM   #52
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My feelings on the "SS" handle is that since it started with the Impala SS and SS396 Chevelles before the Camaro even existed and has been applied all over the Chevrolet lineup, it's the least "Camaro" and most "diluted" name in the bunch - and by implication the easiest one to retire (or at least put on hiatus).


Norm
Couldn't you say the same thing about any performance brand? Is GT overused in the car industry? It's Chevrolet's sport brand, and it should exist simply because it is the most recognizable, and thus diluted as you say, Chevrolet performance tag.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:39 PM   #53
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The problem I see is the lack of Gen V engines available. The 4th Gen Camaro went away so GM never had the problem of what engines to put in it and by the time the 5th Gen Camaro came out, the LS3 was available for it. Now that the 6th Gen Camaro and C7 are coming along at similar times, plus the release of the Gen V small block, I don't know what will power the top model Vettes let alone the top model Camaros. I see two options:
A) Suck it up and put the same engines in both cars, which I doubt.
B) Wait to release future ZL1 and possible Z28 for years while they develop different Vette engines and the Camaro gets its used hand me downs.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #54
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Couldn't you say the same thing about any performance brand? Is GT overused in the car industry? It's Chevrolet's sport brand, and it should exist simply because it is the most recognizable, and thus diluted as you say, Chevrolet performance tag.
I think if I went back into the annual list of "Sports and GT cars" that Road & Track used to publish that I'd find many different mfrs using the GT tag, but no single mfr that hung it on as many different of their own models as Chevy has done with "SS". Ford may be the closest with three distinctly identifiable Mustang trims plus the mid-engined GT/GT-40, but that's only two separate platforms.

SS started on the two bigger sedans/coupes and was adopted into the F-body and other platforms later. It's been hung on Cobalt and even Trailblazer trims . . . not to mention the SSR if we're going to count variations on "GT".

To me, that's little different than borrowing either the Z06 or Z28 tags for a hardcore or super performance version of the Malibu, except that SS to Camaro is something that has already happened.

FWIW, the guy I used to navigate for in time-speed-distance sports car rallyes back in the 1970's drove an SS Camaro (402, 4-speed). Fast, yes, but not at all hardcore in its stockish form.


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Old 01-21-2013, 07:59 PM   #55
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The "SS" tag has completely lost it's meaning. Like I said above, the lack of engines available means that the iconic tags lose part of their meaning if you want to use them. There are no more big block SS Camaros or Chevelles. The SS is now the base model and used for marketing only.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:58 PM   #56
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The "SS" tag has completely lost it's meaning. Like I said above, the lack of engines available means that the iconic tags lose part of their meaning if you want to use them. There are no more big block SS Camaros or Chevelles. The SS is now the base model and used for marketing only.
Just to put a little perspective on SS in the first gen Camaro, '67-'69 there were 64,105 SS350 Camaros made and 34,310 SS396 Camaros made, so the small block was almost 2 to 1. And while the SS is the base model V8 these days, certainly the ZL1 package fills the slot formerly filled by the SS396 back in the day even though it is an SBC and not a BB. All that said, I agree with your basic idea that SS has been over used and watered down to some extent. I think they will need at a minimum three different V8 engines for the 6th gen Camaro, LT1 for the base V8 and two others to fill the 1LE-Z/28 slot and the ZL1 slot.
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