[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Posaune

What flashy tech do you mean? Bluetooth, touchscreen? Use the Mylink radio from the <$15k Spark which has:


4G LTE connectivity seems to be added to every Chevy or soon will be.

Steering wheel mounted audio and phone interface controls are standard on the 2015 Sonic.

You raid the parts bin for this, using as many of the tech pieces developed for the other Chevys on the lot. The tech part should be the easy part of the equation.

Did not know you could get the touch screen in the sonic at 15K bc I just keep looking at the Cruze. Let's break this down a bit more, Doc.

Give me an estimated wheelbase for this car. You mentioned earlier the size of a 67 Camaro, about 108" wheel base. The 6th gen rides on a 110" WB. So I think you would agree with me this needs to be a little bit smaller, otherwise it would IMO be way to close in size to a Camaro. So the Cruze is the closest car size wise IMO at 105" wheelbase, so I will make my estimates based off of Cruze prices, just because this car will have to be around that size IMO.

A Cruze 1LT Manual starts at 18,390. Starting with the 1LT trim because I don't think there would be a case to offer a car like this in basic trim like the Cruze has the L model. Add the tech package to get the MyLink (which when targeting a young demographic is important IMO). Now you are at $18,940, add the RS package to give it a little more sporty look and you are now sitting at $19,615. That's a good start we are right in your target price range.

However, now we take into consideration for some reason that I hope someone more intelligent than I can explain, RWD platforms seems to be more expensive than a FWD platform. Also looking at most cars that offer coupes and sedans the coupe almost always costs more than the sedan. Honda gets away with the civic coupe being 200 less than the sedan, but almost every other car I can think of with a sedan/coupe offering the coupe is more expensive.

That is also only with the 1.4 eco-tec engine, which I think we can agree isn't the sportiest and 16" wheels aren't the sportiest either, so this car should probably have 17" wheels to have that sporty look.

Now is this car only going to be offered in that type of 1LT trim? Because once you go 2LT on the Cruze, you are looking at a starting price of 24K which would put this car right there with the Camaro and I think it would start stealing sales from the Camaro.

Now this is obviously me just guessing using the Cruze as my base, if this car is going to be larger than the cruze I really have a hard time of it coming in at less than 20K

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Did not know you could get the touch screen in the sonic at 15K bc I just keep looking at the Cruze. Let's break this down a bit more, Doc.

Give me an estimated wheelbase for this car. You mentioned earlier the size of a 67 Camaro, about 108" wheel base. The 6th gen rides on a 110" WB. So I think you would agree with me this needs to be a little bit smaller, otherwise it would IMO be way to close in size to a Camaro. So the Cruze is the closest car size wise IMO at 105" wheelbase, so I will make my estimates based off of Cruze prices, just because this car will have to be around that size IMO.

A Cruze 1LT Manual starts at 18,390. Starting with the 1LT trim because I don't think there would be a case to offer a car like this in basic trim like the Cruze has the L model. Add the tech package to get the MyLink (which when targeting a young demographic is important IMO). Now you are at $18,940, add the RS package to give it a little more sporty look and you are now sitting at $19,615. That's a good start we are right in your target price range.

However, now we take into consideration for some reason that I hope someone more intelligent than I can explain, RWD platforms seems to be more expensive than a FWD platform. Also looking at most cars that offer coupes and sedans the coupe almost always costs more than the sedan. Honda gets away with the civic coupe being 200 less than the sedan, but almost every other car I can think of with a sedan/coupe offering the coupe is more expensive.

That is also only with the 1.4 eco-tec engine, which I think we can agree isn't the sportiest and 16" wheels aren't the sportiest either, so this car should probably have 17" wheels to have that sporty look.

Now is this car only going to be offered in that type of 1LT trim? Because once you go 2LT on the Cruze, you are looking at a starting price of 24K which would put this car right there with the Camaro and I think it would start stealing sales from the Camaro.

Now this is obviously me just guessing using the Cruze as my base, if this car is going to be larger than the cruze I really have a hard time of it coming in at less than 20K

I don't think the D2XX supports RWD (but may support AWD). They really don't seem to have anything support a RWD with smaller wheelbase than the Alpha SWB platform.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Did not know you could get the touch screen in the sonic at 15K bc I just keep looking at the Cruze. Let's break this down a bit more, Doc.

It is actually standard on the 2016 Spark.

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I don't think the D2XX supports RWD (but may support AWD). They really don't seem to have anything support a RWD with smaller wheelbase than the Alpha SWB platform.

Delta/D2XX has and does use AWD. Now, best I can tell it was just on the CUVs built on Delta. Will it be adaptable to the car version, I would hope so.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Posaune

It is actually standard on the 2016 Spark.





Delta/D2XX has and does use AWD. Now, best I can tell it was just on the CUVs built on Delta. Will it be adaptable to the car version, I would hope so.

I hope so, too. With them bringing the Cruze hatch to USA, it would be nice if they offered a SS version that was AWD and had the LTG engine.

[laborsmith]

The new Cruze will offer a DI version of the 1.4T, improving power I think by 20%.

I will looks for specifics and if necessary post more accurately.

Laborsmith

Now more accurate

[Doc]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Did not know you could get the touch screen in the sonic at 15K bc I just keep looking at the Cruze. Let's break this down a bit more, Doc.

Give me an estimated wheelbase for this car. You mentioned earlier the size of a 67 Camaro, about 108" wheel base. The 6th gen rides on a 110" WB. So I think you would agree with me this needs to be a little bit smaller, otherwise it would IMO be way to close in size to a Camaro. So the Cruze is the closest car size wise IMO at 105" wheelbase, so I will make my estimates based off of Cruze prices, just because this car will have to be around that size IMO.

I was originally thinking of the same wheelbase as the 67 Camaro but it could easily be 107" and that would work. It needs to not only be bigger but look bigger than the econo sedans (especially from overseas) that would be in the same price range. I highly doubt another 2" of wheelbase would kill the budget.

A Cruze 1LT Manual starts at 18,390. Starting with the 1LT trim because I don't think there would be a case to offer a car like this in basic trim like the Cruze has the L model. Add the tech package to get the MyLink (which when targeting a young demographic is important IMO). Now you are at $18,940, add the RS package to give it a little more sporty look and you are now sitting at $19,615. That's a good start we are right in your target price range.

If LT stands for Luxury Touring then no, there would not be an LT or for that matter any other designation for the base model. You could get away with either an RS or SS option for the turbo 4 which could have a few other goodies to justify the moniker but again, the whole point of this is great looks and affordable price. It is NOT intended to compete with the Camaro...period.

However, now we take into consideration for some reason that I hope someone more intelligent than I can explain, RWD platforms seems to be more expensive than a FWD platform. Also looking at most cars that offer coupes and sedans the coupe almost always costs more than the sedan. Honda gets away with the civic coupe being 200 less than the sedan, but almost every other car I can think of with a sedan/coupe offering the coupe is more expensive.

I'm not sure either why there's such a price difference between RWD and FWD platforms. I would have thought that FWD would actually be more expensive because everything has to be crammed into the front between the wheels which not only have to be driven, but also steer. To me RWD would be less expensive and certainly allows for a better F/R weight balance.

That is also only with the 1.4 eco-tec engine, which I think we can agree isn't the sportiest and 16" wheels aren't the sportiest either, so this car should probably have 17" wheels to have that sporty look.

Yes I was thinking 17" wheels would be standard. I also think they should be the lightest, lowest cost wheels they have in the parts bin; no expensive wheel options. What's the first thing most owners do when they start to mod their cars? Change the wheels. To me it doesn't make any sense economically to raise the price with wheels the customer is probably going to replace anyways. Let that kind of thing be aftermarket.

Intakes, exhaust, suspension components and wheels are the things that owners can (and often do) replace. Don't raise the cost of production or the price of the car by putting the money there; put it into the two things the customer can't typically change which are the body and interior. A great looking body and interior are the things that will grab their attention, and sell the car.

Now is this car only going to be offered in that type of 1LT trim? Because once you go 2LT on the Cruze, you are looking at a starting price of 24K which would put this car right there with the Camaro and I think it would start stealing sales from the Camaro.

No trim designation for the base car; if it's called the Corvair (or whatever it's called) then that's its name and how it's advertised. The turbo 4 model could either be a separate model with it's own designation, or (my choice) an engine upgrade with the letters T4 somewhere on the car to indicate it's a turbo 4. Same body, same interior; keep the costs down so this is an affordable car.

Now this is obviously me just guessing using the Cruze as my base, if this car is going to be larger than the cruze I really have a hard time of it coming in at less than 20K.

It will be slightly larger than the Cruze and it can definitely come in under $20k if it's done with careful thought as to what to put in it, and what not to put in it. If the costs could be spread out between it and a wagon/Nomad/HHR type companion that would be killer.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I don't think the D2XX supports RWD (but may support AWD). They really don't seem to have anything support a RWD with smaller wheelbase than the Alpha SWB platform.

Wasn't suggesting that it should, was just using a car the size of the Cruze to base my guesstimates off.

Originally Posted by Doc

It will be slightly larger than the Cruze and it can definitely come in under $20k if it's done with careful thought as to what to put in it, and what not to put in it. If the costs could be spread out between it and a wagon/Nomad/HHR type companion that would be killer.

That is where I really see the problem now. The car would be larger than the Cruze. Typically as cars get bigger, they get more expensive. The 1LT Cruze, IMO had the right basic features which is why I used that as my base for the new pony. Now you have to add the cost of a RWD platform and a coupe (both of which we don't know why are typically more expensive, the accord coupe is 1600 more than the sedan and the ATS coupe is something around 4K more than the sedan).

Look at all the cars that share the same platform as The Cruze: Volt, Opel Astra, Buick Envision, Equinox and Terrain. That basic 1LT Cruze still costs around 18K in sedan fwd trim.

Even if they spread the new platform out to every single division GM has and build as many things as possible off it, your going to have a RWD Coupe, that for reasons we still don't know costs more than a FWD sedan, that would be bigger than a Cruze. It would need the standard features of the 1LT Cruze, plus some minor upgrades to give it the sporty look/feel. I just don't think you can have that car sell for less than 20K.

Just noticed you mentioned the 107" wheel base. That is the same size as the Malibu, a 22K car. A LS Malibu with the most basic features is a 22K car. I just don't see how a car that size, in a RWD coupe form will cost 3K less (to hit your target of 19K) than a Malibu without taking some serious shortcuts and using super cheap materials

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Doc

It will be slightly larger than the Cruze and it can definitely come in under $20k if it's done with careful thought as to what to put in it, and what not to put in it. If the costs could be spread out between it and a wagon/Nomad/HHR type companion that would be killer.

Might I suggest a ute version as well? Could take the place globally where the Chevy Montana/Tornado are sold. Would slot under the Colorado/Canyon in the U.S. market, 21st century version of the El Camino or LUV pick-up if you will. While not a direct replacement for the Ute from Holden, offer it down under as well.

[ssrs396]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Might I suggest a ute version as well? Could take the place globally where the Chevy Montana/Tornado are sold. Would slot under the Colorado/Canyon in the U.S. market, 21st century version of the El Camino or LUV pick-up if you will. While not a direct replacement for the Ute from Holden, offer it down under as well.

Great idea.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Might I suggest a ute version as well? Could take the place globally where the Chevy Montana/Tornado are sold. Would slot under the Colorado/Canyon in the U.S. market, 21st century version of the El Camino or LUV pick-up if you will. While not a direct replacement for the Ute from Holden, offer it down under as well.

You mean something like this?

[ssrs396]

Originally Posted by Doc

You mean something like this?

Attachment 744907

That looks good! Now for a 2 door wagon version....

[Doc]

Originally Posted by ssrs396

That looks good! Now for a 2 door wagon version....

Not sure how well this works. The back may be too long.

[Number 3]

Ok, this is getting very "wishful".

1st, as usual, you guys are setting an very unrealistic price target.

I've tried to tell you that a 200 HP Sonic WILL cost $22,500 to $24,000. A Fiests ST with 130 HP will run you $21,000 base. So $22,500 would be pretty solid.

I've tried to tell you that a 270 HP Cruze (Sedan only at this time) would run you $24,000 or more. Very competitive with the Focus ST which is also $24,000. But you'll have none of that.

What you want is still a unique car with allllll new sheetmetal and allllll new interior that is sporty and exciting yet somehow below $20,000.

Then you pile on with wagons and ute body styles that would sell at ridiculously low volumes. Wagons don't sell and there is really a pretty good reason the G8 Ute never made it.

You cannot have a low volume, unique car with great "fun to drive" quotient for under $20,000.

And all of this because someone thinks $26,000 is too much for a Camaro.

Now if you guys want to back down and hope for a Cruze hatch with the 270 HP engine, then awesome. That can happen and it WILL cost $24,000 or more.

If you want to hope GM freaking wakes up and realizes the finally have some exciting Opel products and bring over the Astra GTC, then even MOHR awesome. But that car will easily run you close to $30,000.

What you want can't exist. RWD or FWD you can't get unique sheet metal and interior and "fun to drive" for under $20,000. It's a UNICORN. No one has such a beast. And if you bring up the Mazda one more time I'll puke. It's simply a nicely styled car. There is nothing special about it otherwise. I happen to like it a lot myself. But to say this car meets the criteria everyone is talking about doesn't work. It is no better looking or performing than the Astra and the GTC would blow the doors off the Focus ST. GM has that car. It's just not here.

For me, I want GM to develop a Cruze hatch with the 2.0T and keep it under $24,000. That would be a great car, fun to drive and it's only hurdle is Buick. And if the Cascada does well, maybe the GTC can follow.

[Camaro2Tymer]

I've tried to thoroughly read through the entire thread and I agree with some points being made. 1: An entry level, sport coupe/roadster is needed IMO. Now, personally, I don't think it necessarily needs to try to look like a little brother to the Camaro. Idk about everyone else but the number 1 car I run into around town that wants to race are the little 90's civics. A FWD, coupe or hatch with tons of aftermarket support. Now I know that's not a "new car" however, that's what I see the younger generation driving. 2: I have to agree that I think the younger generation wants the tech. They want the touch screens and the iphone support and what have you. a bare bones interior is not going to cut it. I do not think it can't look closer to the import scene though. The younger generation grew up with the fast and furious movies. Ricer central. I think something like the Honda S660 ($16,500 base) with a ton of aftermarket or factory support for performance would be a huge hit for a young age group. Is it slow? yes. Is a 90's civic slow? yes. They're looking for the aftermarket, "make it your own" type of vehicle. Throw a turbo and some NOS on it and go ape-sh*t. I think the price point on FRS and BRZ eliminated younger buyers.