Mcleod Twin Disc and Ram Clutch Slave

[jacobcarrasco7]

I had a question regarding the ram clutch slave. I am installing a mcleod twin disc clutch onto my Camaro 2011 SS w the Ram slave and do NOT wanna mess it up!!!

Looking at the instructions on how to measure for proper fitment. I just wanted to verify that I am doing my measurements correctly because I did not have to use any shims and I got a gap of .195 which is perfect.

For the clutch, is it from the top of the clutch fingers to the bottom of the flywheel? Like the image below! For this measurement I got: 3.634





For the engine measurements, where exactly do I measure? Is it from the crankshaft flange to where that arrow is pointing to (The silver part) or where it is circled? (gray part) (and yes crankshaft flange is missing, imagine its there)



For this measurement I got: 0.178 and that’s from measuring from the silver part!

For my last measurement which is the bell-house to the clutch slave pressed down, i got: 4.007

Which B - (A+C) = .195 ( i didn’t have to use any shims!)

IS any of these measuremnts the proper way to measure?

And you should I also get the ram pedal adjuster??

[fz4k98]

the measurement locations you used will work as long as they are accurate. I did a different approach and had the clutch system mounted to the engine when I did mine.

Visually, the end result is you want to make sure the slave has the equation measurement you are trying to achieve left at the end of its compressed travel when everything is installed. You don't want the slave fully compressed as it would push the fingers down on the pressure plate. You also don't want too high of a measurement as the slave will not travel far enough when the pedal is pushed.

[jacobcarrasco7]

got it, honestly the only two locations that have been confusing to measure has been the clutch and the crankshaft to engine, the measurements I used seem ok then for all 3?

and i am actually going to try and measure the clutch while it is installed on the engine. in this case how exactly did you measure the clutch while installed on the engine?

[fz4k98]

I used a straight edge across the pressure plate surface and a caliper with a depth tool on it. In my case the pressure plate fingers were below the pressure plate surface so I had to measure them and adjust the calculation.

Basically the engine surface where the trans attaches to, to the pressure plate fingers is one measurement.

The trans surface that touches the engine, to the fully compressed slave is the other measurent.

How you get these can be done in many ways, the important part is to measure accurately. In my case, I always measure each point 3 times and always use the middle measurement. If the 3 measurements are too far apart I redo it to get them closer.

The reason I did it on the engine is it is actual condition and fewer measurement errors.

[FasNuf]

If you haven’t seen them already, RAM has some Technical pages on their website. Look under Support.

[jacobcarrasco7]

appreciate it a lot. I was actually able to get my measurements doing it the exact way and measuring 3 times for precise results. and I finally was able to get a clearance gap of .193 (I know its supposed to be at .200, but) which I believe should be perfect for the mcleod twin disc clutch correct? let me know

and thank you for the video link, its gonna help a lot to bleed the hydraulic system! hoopefully i don't get any issues there!

[FasNuf]

Well I can't say I know about the RAM slave, but it sounds right.
Good luck and have fun.

[jacobcarrasco7]

I finally installed everything on and car is running amazing! but I have barely any freeplay on my clutch pedal, would buying the clutch pedal adjuster from RAM help since I already have the RAM Slave. and also

I noticed my T/O bearing is in constant motion, I saw it was touching the PP fingers! not sure how much pressure, doesn't look like a lot but I have done research and people say that it should be fine,

someone on LS1 Tech said"bearing always rides on the pressure plate fingers. The PP is the only thing that pushes the slave back. It's a bearing, it's made to rotate, just like any other bearing on your car"

someone else said, "I have used Tilton and Ram style slave cylinders that do not have a spring, but they still sit up against the pressure plate fingers just without as much pressure." ( I AM USING A RAM SLAVE)

and someone else said "the PP fingers are turning so the bearing should to for less wear!"

I think I bit of an air gap would be better to not have the bearing wear faster. Would buying the Ram pedal adjuster also help the bearing come off the PP fingers while also adding a bit more freeplay to the pedal?

[FasNuf]

The bearing on the GM slave is in constant contact with the pressure plate. This is the preload that the technical paper on RAMs site was talking about. (for the GM Slave).

[jacobcarrasco7]

so I should be good! ? the bearing and the PP fingers are supposed to touch even though I don't have even .5 in. of freeplay?

I was planning on getting the Ram pedal adjuster to give the pedal more freeplay, would this also give the bearing a bit of an airgap or does it only apply for the pedal?

[FasNuf]

https://youtu.be/qrF0BBgSv4Y?si=x85LnyAIu1hXoaZh


If you setup your slave like their video above shows, then the preload should be what's required on the fingers. It helped me to use that worksheet and draw it out. I had to measure a little different because I didnt try removing the bell housing, but you get the idea.

Sorry. I dont have experience with the RAM clutch adjuster to speak on that.

When I finished my setup, release and engage points were basically in the stock positions, but this might change with your slave. I would call RAM and speak with a technical advisor, they may have better info.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by jacobcarrasco7

so I should be good! ? the bearing and the PP fingers are supposed to touch even though I don't have even .5 in. of freeplay?

I was planning on getting the Ram pedal adjuster to give the pedal more freeplay, would this also give the bearing a bit of an airgap or does it only apply for the pedal?

Ohhh, a clutch thread! I love clutch stuff/

I'm trying to understand what you mean by free-play. You want the clutch to travel some before it starts disengaging? I'm not sure I understand why you would want that.

It sounds like maybe what you're experiencing is an engagement point that's higher than you're used to with your last clutch. That's common when going from a factory style clutch setup to an aftermarket clutch like you have now. It can be weird getting used to engagement starting higher in the pedal travel.

I propose that the "right" solution is to eliminate the deadband, rather than move it to be beginning of pedal travel, rather than the end of travel. After all, what purpose does that deadband (travel of pedal without changing engagement) serve other than to make finding the engagement point more difficult, and slow your clutch actions with more than necessary pedal travel?

With engagement near the top of the pedal (as it should be for best shifting performance) you're already pretty close to having the problem solved - you've got just to eliminate all the unnecessary travel that happens after the clutch fully releases. For this, you use a pedal stop. It's exactly what it sounds like, it's an adjustable travel limiter for the clutch pedal. There are many designs, but the most common and easy to implement attach directly to the clutch pedal itself, and contact the fire wall ahead of the pedal itself, to limit travel.

Adjusting the pedal stop is pretty simple, and can be done in a few ways. Some will have you raise the rear tires off the ground, put the car in gear, and add then adjust the stop to allow travel just beyond where you start to feel drag when turning the wheels against the engine shut off. Another method (which I use) it to attempt to put the car in gear with the engine running. If it doesn't drop in easily, I need more travel, and I adjust my stop. Once I find where it goes into gear easily, I add just a bit more travel, and I'm setup.

The pedal stop will do a few things for you. First, it puts your maximum pedal position right below where engagement begins. This means when you go to take off, as soon as you start to release the pedal, you enter the friction zone. No more having to "feel" for the engagement zone half way up the pedals travel - you'll consistently be right on it when you start your pedal release. This is the feel most people are after when they run those accumulator setups to move the engagement point closer to the floor - and that makes sense, other than it introduces all that deadband in the pedal.

Having disengagement happen right as you start to travel the pedal is ideal as it will help you improve shifting, getting your clutch release happening quicker than it would when having to travel the pedal further.

Finally, it's easier on your clutch hardware. Many aftermarket slave and clutch setups REQUIRE a pedal stop to limit over-traveling the pressure plate or the slave itself. Over-traveling a pressure plate will often cause some re-engagement or drag on the clutch, which impedes shifting, and over-traveling the slave can be catastrophic, blowing out seals, and even driving the piston right out of the slave body.

Maybe a final win, it's also a lot cheaper than using one of those pedal adjusters. I think I paid $50 for the one I have.

Your air gap at .193" sounds ok - Mcleod suggests a very wide range of .100-.250". It would come down to how much travel the slave has, and if that's enough to travel the .440" of travel needed to release the clutch, plus your .193" of air gap - so .633" total travel. I don't know what the Ram slave has, but I do know the Tilton bearing has .700" of travel, so that would be acceptable, but cutting in close. I have always targeted .125-.150 and that works well for me.

A final thought - if you haven't already, ditch that awful factory return/assist spring. That cam-over feeling in the pedal is all because of that dual action spring, and once you get rid of that, you'll be much happier with the overall consistent feel of the pedal. You can omit a return spring entirely, as the pressure plate should return your pedal to about the full up position, but I opt to run a light linear return spring to ensure that I get full pedal up travel when released, which keeps the transfer port open on the master cylinder. That only opens at the VERY end of pedal travel, and you may not quite get there just relying on the pressure plate to push the pedal back.

[jacobcarrasco7]

yes I measured exactly like the video! and got .193 of clearance for my dual mcleod clutch

[jacobcarrasco7]

Hey acammer, haha I really appreciate your response. If I rephrase a little. I actually love where the clutch pedal is at, very high!! I tested the car, every gear changes perfectly fine. I am actually going to check the point of engagement and get back to you!!

however the reason for my post is because I feel like my bearing is gonna wear faster if it is too close to the PP fingers meaning maybe there's too much preload on the fingers and the bearing. I now know the bearing it supposed to have constant pressure but it's just the fear of having the bearing wear out faster than what it is supposed too and not having the correct preload.

am I suppose to hear the bearing turning while in neutral/idle position? (slightly though?)

and what pedal stop did you use? and would it be compatible with the RAM slave? it could also be that I may have a bit more over traveling I fear. Im not sure, it is my first time changing the clutch on my car!!