[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

I agree. I owned nothing but pony cars for decades, several f bodies and 2 Mustangs. A few years ago, my family was large enough that I decided a 4 door was necessary and the Charger with 392 HEMI was my compromise. It's been great, feels like a 4 door but heavy pony car, makes good power, sounds good, and has aggressive styling. I looked at a lot of options and it came down to this and the CTSV. Looks and price gave the Charger the nod to me over the Caddy. The Chevy sedans might as well had Toyota or Honda badges, they are bland.

My wife had an SUV for several years, I'd much rather have a performance sedan with aggressive styling than any SUV.

If what people drive around me are any indication, we'll all be driving Honda CRVs soon, and driving them 10 mph under the speed limit everywhere we go.

My first new car was a 84 Monte SS and I daily drove a 04 GTO many years with Trans Ams, Z28s and Camaro SSes mixed in between. I bought a new 99 Grand Cherokee and hated the big, lumbering ox driving experience with shity fuel economy and even worse performance. I dumped it.

I will not drive a SUV and if my choices disappear, I'll turn to the used market until I retire in ~12 years. Then, I'll ~daily~ a 55 Chevy resto-mod and use Mrs hotlaps SUV for distance and practicality. There is a market and as everyone else runs from sedans there is an opportunity to fill a void ...and be prepared if the market shifts again.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You are correct BUT the problem is you need to have the plan at least 4 years in advance at a MINIMUM. You have to balance programs, manufacturing capacity and have a clear understanding what the customer will want. In many cases you can't hedge or guess. A simple program is hundreds of millions of dollars. Major programs can run a billion or more depending on complexity.

Balance is very difficult to achieve. The only easy one is FST and SUVs.

Yes, you can work around things quickly if you make a mistake e.g. the Malibu programs I've referenced. But even that gets expensive trying to quickly remedy a mistake in the market. And you can't do it on every program.

It just seems strange to me that cancelling certain models is preferable to starting over from scratch once demand turns around. Big sedans aren't as popular now as SUVs...What if that changes back?....Easy to say now that it won't, but it's better to have something available for sale at least if and when it does, and not have to wait the four years for something to come to market.

[MiamiBlueCamaro]

Gen 7 Camaro SUV ?

[bigd1276]

Originally Posted by MiamiBlueCamaro

Gen 7 Camaro SUV ?

Can I get it in Hyper Blue?

[90503]

Originally Posted by MiamiBlueCamaro

Gen 7 Camaro SUV ?

Originally Posted by bigd1276

Can I get it in Hyper Blue?

Maybe that is the Camaro refresh....After all, everyone wants an SUV! Camaro must do it's part to meet demand...lol

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by 90503

It just seems strange to me that cancelling certain models is preferable to starting over from scratch once demand turns around. Big sedans aren't as popular now as SUVs...What if that changes back?....Easy to say now that it won't, but it's better to have something available for sale at least if and when it does, and not have to wait the four years for something to come to market.

I don't think it's going to turn around this time.
Fuel prices used to make demand swing back and forth from trucks, suv's to gas misers when the gas prices went up.
There's a s-load of econo compacts piling up since fracking changed the fuel price swing permanently.
Add to that the electrification of the motor vehicle, and fuel prices should stay low.

Electrification and autonomous vehicles are where the current shift is going, and we are never coming back from it.
Manufacturers are actually worried about building gas-only vehicles now, because they are predicted to become worthless dinosaurs by the time the lease turn ins start, and their residuals drop greatly, costing millions or billions of dollars worth of a hit.

[ChevyRules]

Nothing is permanent. We have had two sudden shifts in customer preference in recent history. Both almost sent GM under. Let’s hope GM learned their lesson this time.

Now what may help reduce the impact is the fact the crossovers are getting decent fuel economy which probably will not cause people to go flying into dealers to trade in for a Prius.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Nothing is permanent. We have had two sudden shifts in customer preference in recent history. Both almost sent GM under. Let’s hope GM learned their lesson this time.

Now what may help reduce the impact is the fact the crossovers are getting decent fuel economy which probably will not cause people to go flying into dealers to trade in for a Prius.

Very true and I agree. I imagine there are hybrid and/or full electric cross overs and SUV's on the way which certainly would spell the end for most sedans. I would have no problem rockin a performance hybrid SUV. In fact I think it would be pretty cool to have the instant torque of an electric motor in a AWD platform... even with the Corvette or Camaro name plate.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 90503

It just seems strange to me that cancelling certain models is preferable to starting over from scratch once demand turns around. Big sedans aren't as popular now as SUVs...What if that changes back?....Easy to say now that it won't, but it's better to have something available for sale at least if and when it does, and not have to wait the four years for something to come to market.

I don't think big sedans will ever make a comeback here in the states. Now I think abandoning mid size sedans would be a mistake, but I don't think full size sedans will ever make a comeback

[90503]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I don't think big sedans will ever make a comeback here in the states. Now I think abandoning mid size sedans would be a mistake, but I don't think full size sedans will ever make a comeback

You all are probably right....Except that just about every big selling small compact grows in size and power over the years....look at how small Civic and Corolla started out....now look at them...They can't leave anything alone, always trying to change it up (usually bigger) to increase sales....

There are some nice big sedans out there now....My beloved Impala, for instance...lol....Why get rid of it if its selling in "decent" numbers?....They will all be gone, then the Malibu or Cruze will have to get bigger in a few years....Keep big sedans...Buick, Cadillac, Impala, alive for as long as possible, I say....It has to be cheaper than not having them available at all than to eliminate them and regret it or re-tool existing models to get close to what was previously available....But, not my call....It's a brave new world that I probably won't live to see anyway....lol..

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 90503

You all are probably right....Except that just about every big selling small compact grows in size and power over the years....look at how small Civic and Corolla started out....now look at them...They can't leave anything alone, always trying to change it up (usually bigger) to increase sales....

There are some nice big sedans out there now....My beloved Impala, for instance...lol....Why get rid of it if its selling in "decent" numbers?....They will all be gone, then the Malibu or Cruze will have to get bigger in a few years....Keep big sedans...Buick, Cadillac, Impala, alive for as long as possible, I say....It has to be cheaper than not having them available at all than to eliminate them and regret it or re-tool existing models to get close to what was previously available....But, not my call....It's a brave new world that I probably won't live to see anyway....lol..

You are for sure right about the cars growing, IMO that is what is killing large sedans. A ford Taurus is IIRC 3 inches longer than an Explorer... In today's market IMO there is no need for a sedan to be that big

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by shaffe

You are for sure right about the cars growing, IMO that is what is killing large sedans. A ford Taurus is IIRC 3 inches longer than an Explorer... In today's market IMO there is no need for a sedan to be that big

I dunno, our population keeps getting fatter and fatter...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I dunno, our population keeps getting fatter and fatter...

which is why they are moving to CUVs and SUVs hahaha

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

You all are probably right....Except that just about every big selling small compact grows in size and power over the years....look at how small Civic and Corolla started out....now look at them...They can't leave anything alone, always trying to change it up (usually bigger) to increase sales....

There are some nice big sedans out there now....My beloved Impala, for instance...lol....Why get rid of it if its selling in "decent" numbers?....They will all be gone, then the Malibu or Cruze will have to get bigger in a few years....Keep big sedans...Buick, Cadillac, Impala, alive for as long as possible, I say....It has to be cheaper than not having them available at all than to eliminate them and regret it or re-tool existing models to get close to what was previously available....But, not my call....It's a brave new world that I probably won't live to see anyway....lol..

No doubt each class of sedan is moving up in size. The current Malibu is almost the same size as the Impala. I recently parked my 2016 Cruze next to a 2008 Malibu. They are almost exactly the same size. Cruze has grown from Cavalier / Cobalt size to where Malibu used to be and Malibu has grown to almost where Impala is. The main reason for this is the EPA fuel economy regulations. The targets that each vehicle are supposed to meet are determined by their shadow area....the area between the wheels. Vehicles with greater shadow area have lower mpg targets than vehicles with smaller shadow area. So if you can make the vehicle lighter, and stretch the wheelbase, and widen the track, homerun!

This is why FCA dropped the Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200. They were the heaviest vehicles in their class and had the worst fuel economy. To improve them would have required more engineering and investment than FCA was willing to devote to those old architectures. So now they are focusing on SUVs and vans, pretty much across the board, plus Charger and Challenger. Now they are at the point where they have to decide what to do with Charger and Challenger, because they are also the heaviest vehicles in their class with worst fuel economy. They'll either move them to the Giorgio architecture or drop one of both of them.