[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

The Cadillac ATS coupe rear seat space is significantly better than the Camaros. This is one area I think the Camaro team could have done much better.

Maayyybe they could have fit another inch or two in there somehow but I don't think they could have done a lot better. The ATS rear seat space is better b/c of the profile of the ATS versus the Camaro. The Camaro, is, has always been, long hood, long 2 door 2+2 seater. If you shorten the hood, and move the cabin forward you change the profile of the Camaro into something its not, not to mention likely winds up moving drivetrain components forward also, compromising the handling and front vs rear weight balance of the car.

Hopefully Alpha 2 allows a tad bit more cabin space, without adding lots of weight.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

Let's see. Claims that torque is meaningless in a performance aspect yet gets a whooping on the track, can't beat the 1LE in 0-60, and still can't beat it in the 1/4. Oh but the totally almost non-existent 1 mile drag strip it gets the win.. Which is probably the most useless thing there is cause it's fair to say a SS can easily overcome that gap in the long run due to basic physics. (Key words: Downforce and drag, the same things that give 1LE the advantage on the track)

And before the Mustang people get their panties in a knot. Google "Does downforce slow down a car":
[I]The design increases safety for the driver as the cars go faster and faster each year. But as the speeds increase, for safety's sake, the downforce has to increase as well. The additional downforce increases drag which acts to slow the car down.

Gearing and final drive ratio play a much bigger role than some of you believe. It’s not just wind resistance. Both overdrives in the mustang offer a gearing advantage as does the 1 inch smaller diameter tires.

Originally Posted by Spartan268

Tires is still an issue which is understandable. I guess Ford can't even build a proper performance package. At least they have the MPS4S which is better than the Run Flats; just skinnier though.

So basically we came to the conclusion that despite the odd-ball match of a track focused car vs an all rounder, the 1LE still takes the win. Can't wait til the PP2 is out, even more excuses will be made

I hate to break it to you, but by all accounts, the tires on the SS 1LE are better than the PS4s seen on the PP1.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

So it’s OK for the 1LE to have much wider front and rear tires than the PP1, but when the PP2 matches the rear tire width of the 1le and has wider fronts…it’s compensating for an inferior chassis? Really? Are you listening to yourself?

We will find out how much of a difference tire/wheel package makes when the next H2H between the 1LE and PP2 takes place. If the GT suddenly pulls even then so much for the superior chassis on the 1LE, the advantage was tires over the PP1. If the GT only gains a little then we will have to say the 1LE chassis is indeed superior regardless of tire.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Exactly, it’s the same damn chassis…how no-one else gets this is beyond me.

There is way more in common with the SS and SS 1LE from a chassis standpoint than a GT PP1/PP2 and a GT350. There's no denying it.

Originally Posted by newmoon

We will find out how much of a difference tire/wheel package makes when the next H2H between the 1LE and PP2 takes place. If the GT suddenly pulls even then so much for the superior chassis on the 1LE, the advantage was tires over the PP1. If the GT only gains a little then we will have to say the 1LE chassis is indeed superior regardless of tire.

Agreed. But I'm sure excuses will continue. They always do from both camps.

[shaffe]

Even if the PP2 pulls the GT even with the 1LE, I would stillsay the alpha chassis is superior to the S550

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

There is way more in common with the SS and SS 1LE from a chassis standpoint than a GT PP1/PP2 and a GT350. There's no denying it.

How so?

Originally Posted by shaffe

Even if the PP2 pulls the GT even with the 1LE, I would stillsay the alpha chassis is superior to the S550

I'm curious on your reasoning.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

How so?

https://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-m...ressed-we-are/

Don't forget, even the GT350TP weighs less than a GT PP1. PP2 is going to add more weight. So yes there are a lot of things done to save weight and change the setup of the GT350 vs the GT.

Unlike the SS 1LE, which is tires, some aero bits, brakes, different MRC tune, and eLSD.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

https://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-m...ressed-we-are/

Don't forget, even the GT350TP weighs less than a GT PP1. PP2 is going to add more weight. So yes there are a lot of things done to save weight and change the setup of the GT350 vs the GT.

Unlike the SS 1LE, which is tires, some aero bits, brakes, different MRC tune, and eLSD.

There's nothing in there about the platform. The only difference between a GT and GT350 platform is the GT350 has a CFC radiator surround/support.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

How so?



I'm curious on your reasoning.

1. It is lighter than the S550
2. Despite being down on power the 1LE appears it would be right on the heels of the 350
3. Even with the super Pilot Cup 2 tires, I still don't expect the GTPP2 to edge out the 1LE. Maybe be even with it or at least competitive

That to me has to be combo of chassis and suspension tuning. So either GM's people are that much better than Fords or the Alpha chassis is just better

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

The Cadillac ATS coupe rear seat space is significantly better than the Camaros. This is one area I think the Camaro team could have done much better.

Really? That sounds like a dealership visit is in order. You made me curious to see how it was done differently. Is the trunk opening any better too? If so, man...that would have really made the car perfect.

[R.C. Collins]

A 4.10 rear end option would make the manual SS Camaro even better.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

Really? That sounds like a dealership visit is in order. You made me curious to see how it was done differently. Is the trunk opening any better too? If so, man...that would have really made the car perfect.

Yes, I bought my 1SS specifically for a daily driver and need to use the back seat often for my two kids (short trips in town only). The ATS seems to have a few more inches of legroom, which makes a huge difference!

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

https://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-m...ressed-we-are/

Don't forget, even the GT350TP weighs less than a GT PP1. PP2 is going to add more weight. So yes there are a lot of things done to save weight and change the setup of the GT350 vs the GT.

Unlike the SS 1LE, which is tires, some aero bits, brakes, different MRC tune, and eLSD.

There is nothing in there that mentions any chassis variations from the stock GT. Both the GT350 and 1LE mention chassis improvements, but neither pinpoint exactly what is meant.

As for the weight difference, that wasn’t done with chassis…but rather lighter weight suspension components as well as a carbon fiber front bumper support.

Fundamentally, the chassis (in both cases) are pretty much the same.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

There's nothing in there about the platform. The only difference between a GT and GT350 platform is the GT350 has a CFC radiator surround/support.

Exactly

Originally Posted by shaffe

1. It is lighter than the S550
2. Despite being down on power the 1LE appears it would be right on the heels of the 350
3. Even with the super Pilot Cup 2 tires, I still don't expect the GTPP2 to edge out the 1LE. Maybe be even with it or at least competitive

That to me has to be combo of chassis and suspension tuning. So either GM's people are that much better than Fords or the Alpha chassis is just better

You could also say that, despite being SEVERELY down on power and torque, the 350R is on the heels of the ZL1. See how that works?

You don’t realize just how good the stock SS1le tires are, do you? They may not be up to sport cup2 level…but by all accounts they are quite a fantastic offering.

So to sum it up, even if the PP2 paces or edges out the 1LE…the 1LE chassis is better because the 1LE is on the heels of the GT350? What?

And you are saying the chassis is better not based off of data, but because you don’t think the PP2 will edge out the 1LE?

Suspension tuning is where it’s all about. Both chassis are extremely rigid, but the 1LE has the best overall suspension for the track (VS the GT). That is why they are offering the PP2. Stiffer springs, heavier sway bars, wider, more track oriented tires, stiffer bushings, unique stability tuning, more aero bits etc.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

There's nothing in there about the platform. The only difference between a GT and GT350 platform is the GT350 has a CFC radiator surround/support.

Different suspension pick up points and lighter components throughout (like was done with the Camaro) sounds like chassis specific changes. Maybe it is more suspension related, but it still proves the point that the GT and GT350 are worlds apart in design and components. Hence why the GT350 performs so much better.

Also when you cut weight on a chassis, it will definitely make it seem much better (i.e. Z/28 and the comments made earlier about R to non-R). A GT PP2 is not a GT350TP without the 5.2L. Because I don't recall Ford making a claim that they changed 90% of the suspension components on the PP2 like they did with the GT350.

I don't look at it so much as the S550 is so inferior to the Alpha, but Ford can't make the S550 do what the Alpha can do at the same price point.

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

There is nothing in there that mentions any chassis variations from the stock GT. Both the GT350 and 1LE mention chassis improvements, but neither pinpoint exactly what is meant.

Where is it mentioned that the 1LE had chassis improvements?