[Elite Engineering]

We want to also compliment Nui for the work that he has put into this. He understands what most just ignore, and that is how critical proper crankcase evacuation actually is. With GM deleting the "Positive" function on the LGX and similar platforms and that although slightly reduces the rate and severity of the coking issue, it sacrifices engine life in doing so. Our systems for these provide not only the Positive evacuation that all used in the past, but adds full time evacuation (not venting, that is not evacuating!!) using 2 separate evacuation suction sources. But one of the most telling pieces from this long term testing is even AFTER passing through the other can where it did it's best, there is still nearly 1/2 not being caught from the vapors and still passing into the intake air charge. No other design equals our E2 and E2-X in the ability to stop nearly all of the offending compounds from ingestion. 95% plus is removed vs 15-30% max with most others .


He now has a slight power gain from the reduction of knock retard caused by the ingestion, he has a definite increase in fuel economy (enough to pay for the system over time in fuel savings). His engine oil has far less damaging contaminants mixing with it reducing wear, so engine life is greatly extended, intake valve coking while cannot be eliminated completely as some oil still contacts form back filling of the chamber and a tiny amount from valve seals, 85% is eliminated. The most effective preventative step that can be taken.


Almost nothing gets past our latest design and we trap what gets past other cans. We keep this challenge open for any and all. No other design comes close, and we NEVER open the system to the air venting.


Cheers!!

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

hey I'm still here! appreciate the words y'all. I figure if I'm gonna do something, I might as well share it will either help others prevent making the same mistakes or show where you can improve something.

just hit 48,855 today when I parked so i'll have some more results on this soon. will also be doing a summary and some charts to summarize all the stuff.

also have some other testing I've done in the meanwhile:

so far the oil analysis results came back good for this interval. gotta get the data tech sheet for the oil I use and send it in...working on that this week. but the results were good. I've used this brand oil since 07 really, and not to get into brand wars, use what works for you, but its always good to occasionally get an oil analysis done. kinda like getting blood work for your engine

before the new year, I should have enough miles to do another sample in the current switched configuration. if not, it will be early into the new year. I figre right around 50-51k is roughly 3k-4k miles in the latest config.

Originally Posted by Doug kj6aco

PolynesianPowerhouse Thanks so much for your posts and doing your research I have 17,000 miles on my 2017 v6 since May and I want to keep it for a long time. I put a simple 2 port can on and it's bone dry. I will be adding what you have. Thanks again.

notta prob, uce! def something to look into long term. once again it may not be for everyone, but if you can make use of it, and it helps reach your goals...use it.

Originally Posted by Jason@

Nice testing! Very in depth!

appreciate it, uce! trying to keep it with the least amount of variables as accuarate as can be.

Originally Posted by CruzySS

Nice info and testing. Catch cans are proven to catch and help keep the intake clean. For some reason people think they don't do anything. Wonder how many posts this thread will get?

appreciate it as well. no clue on how many posts. I just know, as said, i'm gonna do whats best for my setup in N/a form. I plan to keep this for the long haul. no lease, or trade in within a few years type...but lets do like the charger and run up another 250K+ miles on a car....just this time not in 6 years time

theres a couple of guys locally that go to CamaroFest every year, and since hangin out with em and learning from them, I've learned SOOO much. collectively they've put a 5th gen v6 12.039 @ 109.22 on 140 shot N2o, 13.037 @ 106.23 n/a bolton. one is in the top 6th gen Bolton w/ 10.67 in the 1/4. which was when I did my personal best that day, and another just got edged out in being the first 10 second bone stock 17 ZL1. he ran 11.08 that weekend and another guy ran 10.96 the same day. with guys like that helping you, I wanna see if I can do a 12 second Bolton v6 in the times I'm not trying to improve in autoX. all the while I want to improve what GM already did a decent solid job on. theres always ways to improve what we have. some where someone back in time INVENTED the wheel. now we have magnesium and carbon fiber being used in materials of such a simplistic think that used to be made of rock, then wood surrounded with metal, and now composites with a rubber tire. anything can be improved.

Originally Posted by Dustya

Polynesian, First and foremost man you deserve a round of applause.. Even if some people don't believe you ( cant understand why at this point ). The time you have taken to post here and provide PROVEN, Information to the v6 community is beyond appreciated.

Sometimes I feel like people need to take a step back and realize that people do not have to post here they do not have to provide their finding and share information.

You are one of the few I will read everything you write.

I had a basic understanding of catch cans but your information is perfect to read and understand without being to technical.

I personally thank you for your time you have taken to provide this information and just feel you should know its not going un-appreciated.

hey uce, its appreciated. but I'm just a regular like anyone else here. maybe its my culture, maybe its the way I was raised. but theres an old saying my elders would say. "when I eat, WE ALL eat" which is basically, if I come across something that can benefit others. I don't have any motives. I'm not selling a thing. I have no patents, or agendas. I've always shared anything I've had if it helps others on forums. even just found an old sticky I made for "newbies" back on the old j body forums last week.

no applause required though. like said, i'm no better nor worse than anyone else here trying to improve what they have. just the same.

Originally Posted by AJL13

Great write-up, complete with in-depth analysis and data. The analytics nerd in me loves this stuff.

Thanx uce! I'm the same way. show me some data...I don't have to know what it is, but i'll wanna learn about it

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

We want to also compliment Nui for the work that he has put into this. He understands what most just ignore, and that is how critical proper crankcase evacuation actually is. With GM deleting the "Positive" function on the LGX and similar platforms and that although slightly reduces the rate and severity of the coking issue, it sacrifices engine life in doing so. Our systems for these provide not only the Positive evacuation that all used in the past, but adds full time evacuation (not venting, that is not evacuating!!) using 2 separate evacuation suction sources. But one of the most telling pieces from this long term testing is even AFTER passing through the other can where it did it's best, there is still nearly 1/2 not being caught from the vapors and still passing into the intake air charge. No other design equals our E2 and E2-X in the ability to stop nearly all of the offending compounds from ingestion. 95% plus is removed vs 15-30% max with most others .


He now has a slight power gain from the reduction of knock retard caused by the ingestion, he has a definite increase in fuel economy (enough to pay for the system over time in fuel savings). His engine oil has far less damaging contaminants mixing with it reducing wear, so engine life is greatly extended, intake valve coking while cannot be eliminated completely as some oil still contacts form back filling of the chamber and a tiny amount from valve seals, 85% is eliminated. The most effective preventative step that can be taken.


Almost nothing gets past our latest design and we trap what gets past other cans. We keep this challenge open for any and all. No other design comes close, and we NEVER open the system to the air venting.


Cheers!!

Theres an old quote from a Louis Gosset Jr movie, Iron Eagle 2.... "don't criticize the cuisine, before its served"

https://youtu.be/SoMCc9V3j1s?t=8m23s

A lot of people said this or that wouldn't work, but as with life, many times if you give it a go, an honest trial. its the only way to know for sure if it will work or not. that's truthfully what I did here with the Elite Can. I tried it, and its shown that a certain amount IS getting by....but its being caught thankfully.

in less than a month, knowing my driving frequency, will def have the reversed results. and that's also why I've added my oil analysis results as well, which was good overall.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Finality...

So I ran just over 55K Tuesday morning. dealing with life...death in the fam, wrestling, work...etc and trying to piece together a 1LE brake kit, some things had a delay in getting done. Needless to say, I'm prob not making the first AutoX events april 7th and 8th...





but I figured to let it go a bit. theres been a few track days on it this year...2 to be exact. and the normal 60 mile daily round trip. so this should serve to be around 7-8k overall miles on this setup.



Just a flashback, the inline routing for this interval was Elite E2X first, then Mishimoto. I also included, in addition to the normal out line of the Mishimoto Can, with the additional vaccum (normally goes to the second port of the E2X can) that's tapped into the manifold. (For those that are uncomfy tapping the manifold, I've read that some are using a TB spacer with a port pre-tapped in for the additional vacuum source)

and as the final results show.... the E2X caught a lot of the acidic water, raw fuel, etc that's in the crankcase. its the lighter of the two liquids.






The Mishimoto can caught some stuff, but it was far darker. Also...I took a close-up of inside the can. there's some sort of rust-like residue in the can around the brass filter area. also after wiping out the can a bit, you can see a few specs of a darker rust-like substance.







its getting late and dark out, so I had to move as fast as possible with only a cell phone light.

The main thing to point out... in the past test... pretty much 50% more blowby got PAST the Mishimoto Can which was CAUGHT in the Elite Can.

This time around, I dunno who wants to make the call, but there's easily double, maybe 2.5-3 times the amount in from the E2X (almost 10ml) vs the Mishimoto (not even at 5ml). The Elite Can caught roughly 3 times more.



All tests were run once in one position where it was through Can A first and then into Can B, and then REVERSED so Can B could filter first and then through Can A. I cant remember the exact number, but the vacuum on both configurations were pretty much the same (verified by HP Tuners looking at the manifold numbers, and a few times using OBD-Link monitoring software)

Ultimately I'm seeing that due to having a larger can, or more so a filter media that feeds into a larger condensing area which gives it the ability to cool and condense more efficiently is prob the main reason I'm personally sticking with the E2X. (if anyone wants a used mishimoto can, pay shipping and its yours)

the additional vacuum doesn't consume any liquids or extra liquids, its doesn't siphon off crankcase oil, or any of the things I was told it would do, but turned out to be false. this is purely a demonstration of what filters more efficiently between the two.

Remember, Mishimoto NEVER made a kit. it was literally a few of us, who rigged up something inline with the PCV dirty side (initially most didn't touch the clean side lines). they had plans, but it never came to fruition. the LTG 2.0T received a dual can kit, one for the pcv and one for the clean side. naturally the LT1 v8 had a kit... but we got left out. sometimes that's just how marketing and sales go... they make exceptionally great cooling products, most of us know that by far. its just our platform didn't garner much interest for them. I personally am not angered, or mad....I just know how business works. if its not gonna sell, don't waste time. If I do something in the ring, and the crowd doesn't react.... I'm not gonna waste time, effort, and possible injury doing it again for yet... another round of no reaction.

However having a Direct Injection engine....its almost needed to minimize backside of intake valve deposits. if you haven't seen it.... Some pros and cons of direct injection and solutions.

Elite Engineering however DOES make a kit. comes complete with instructions, hoses, check valves, and most all the tools you need to complete the install. in comparison, most here aren't gonna go out and piece together aluminum pipe, MAF housing, construct a box out of aluminum or thin wall steel to make an intake (anyone that's been around a while knows about doing this). you'd rather just buy a complete kit plug & play & go right? Well there ya have it... there's a company that makes 2 or 3 complete catch can kit for us if you're in the market for one (Elite E2 & E2-X both in single and dual port-so 4 total...and they also have a proven clean side setup. you can also check Camaro5.com for their track record as the LFX engine was similar...not exactly the same, but similar in setup.

Final Configuration:



Unless you see a supercharger, or some crazy nitrous plumbing...this is prob where its gonna stay till me and the car part ways or something miraculous occurs

[DirectTo]

Thanks for the follow up and the results from running both configurations.

Is the mount your elite can in something you rigged up? I’d really like to put mine there versus way over on the driver side where it leaves little thread on the mounting bolt.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by DirectTo

Thanks for the follow up and the results from running both configurations.

Is the mount your elite can in something you rigged up? I’d really like to put mine there versus way over on the driver side where it leaves little thread on the mounting bolt.

Totally all included in the setup. I def appreciated it there as well as its not mounted over the exhaust manifold. Heat rises.

[DirectTo]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

Totally all included in the setup. I def appreciated it there as well as its not mounted over the exhaust manifold. Heat rises.

Guess they changed that more recently...mine included a single bracket and zero instructions - honestly pretty poorly delivered in my opinion

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by DirectTo

Guess they changed that more recently...mine included a single bracket and zero instructions - honestly pretty poorly delivered in my opinion

I went to the link in the papers

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/c...tch%20Cans.pdf

Install instructions are listed on their site to pretty much all products they sell for all vehicles
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/i...tructions.html

If theres something you didnt get, id simply ring em up.


Also if you look up kirkh, hes posted 2 vids on this forum from his youtube channnel. He has the lfx bracket which is up by the strut tower and sound tube. But if you want the other bracket, id ring em up.

[DirectTo]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

I went to the link in the papers
...
If theres something you didnt get, id simply ring em up.


Also if you look up kirkh, hes posted 2 vids on this forum from his youtube channnel. He has the lfx bracket which is up by the strut tower and sound tube. But if you want the other bracket, id ring em up.

Thanks! I appreciate those instructions. There was nothing in my box but the can, hoses, and the LFX adapter, so I’m guessing the instructions were missing (and only the clean side separator is linked on their website).

Kirkh’s videos helped me a lot to get it setup, but it’s always nice to see how someone else did it. I might bug them about that bracket - I’d MUCH rather have it there.

Thanks.

[Kairles]

I ordered mine from Juiced Motorsports(My guess it was drop shipped) and it didn't have any instructions either. What I thought was weird is it shipped with the LFX bracket but that bracket wont work where the say to put it. Also doesn't really work mounting it on the strut brace like they show in the picture, well atleast not to my liking.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by DirectTo

Thanks! I appreciate those instructions. There was nothing in my box but the can, hoses, and the LFX adapter, so I’m guessing the instructions were missing (and only the clean side separator is linked on their website).

Kirkh’s videos helped me a lot to get it setup, but it’s always nice to see how someone else did it. I might bug them about that bracket - I’d MUCH rather have it there.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Kairles

I ordered mine from Juiced Motorsports(My guess it was drop shipped) and it didn't have any instructions either. What I thought was weird is it shipped with the LFX bracket but that bracket wont work where the say to put it. Also doesn't really work mounting it on the strut brace like they show in the picture, well atleast not to my liking.

Have to do a double quote as I'm about to start working but I would definitely reach out to them and let them know the preference of the bracket for both of you guys. Customer service as I've experienced is pretty decent with them. And the only way that they can improve on customer service and your experience overall is if you guys make the contact the let him know that the other bracket will be your preference. Just my advice

[Elite Engineering]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

The main thing to point out... in the past test... pretty much 50% more blowby got PAST the Mishimoto Can which was CAUGHT in the Elite Can.

This time around, I dunno who wants to make the call, but there's easily double, maybe 2.5-3 times the amount in from the E2X (almost 10ml) vs the Mishimoto (not even at 5ml). The Elite Can caught roughly 3 times more.

Polynesian thanks for the great information. Here's yet another, completely independent test that shows the great results of the Elite Engineering Catch Can design. As we have always said, our Catch Cans will out perform any of the other Catch Cans on the market.

[Msokeefe]

There needs to be precise directions for the camaro SS.

[Benb]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

Well the past few months, I've been trying something new. This is for myself and my own cars use fiest and foremost. If it offers insight to others, i dont mind sharing. Most do not have a rhyme nor reason in travelling 30-40k miles PER YEAR. i however do and care about longevity.

Theres a few local guys that are in the low 10's and 11's that pointed me in this direction and after a decent amount of reading, learning, and some help from a well known company, I've decided to install a catch can IN LINE to see how well my first one was performing, as well as adding an additional line for a continuous vacuum.

The main point of the continuous vacuum, is at low speed, deceleration, and idle, the PCV works as it should evacuating blowby from the crank case....

However, once the engine speed goes up, and for those of use who drive aggressive, drag race, autoX, or track their car... the PCV VALVE closes as it should. leaving those blowby fumes/vapors inside the crankcase until deceleration, lower speeds, or idle returns.

I've been told , that all I'm doing is "sucking liquids" and a lot of other unfounded accusations without any sources or proof. But now, we have visual and video proof of what exactly is being caught No bullsh*t and hearsay.

to start a while ago...about a year. I bought a mishimoto can, and rigged it to be inline with the PCV dirty line. Never touched the clean side line, and for the past year, it has done its job respectfully. every 5-10K i'd basically get 0.5 to 1 ounce of caught blowby.

I run BND Automotive Quantum Blue Custom Blended Oil. and have done so on the past 3 cars for well over a combined 330,000 miles over 3 cars. the 07 charger being the longest at 244,033 miles upon trade in. I also complete an oil sample analysis most every oil change through either Tribology or Blackstone. and the oil change suggestions have been extended most every time, as it still has useable life left. The most current oil sample analysis has been sent out and I can update the post with it when it comes back in, however the past year, I went through 3 of them so far. All wear and metals have been normal.

For the test, I kept the Mishimoto inline with the dirty PCV side and first inline. Second, I had added an Elite E2-X catch can with 3 ports. Two Exits and One Entry.

1) The center line is the dirty PCV line entry. with the setup the way it is, its using the MM can out line as the dirty line source.

2) the outer port towards the front of the can (front of car) is the out side of the can and goes back into the Venturi Valve on the intake of the car. NOTE: AT THIS POINT THE DIRTY SIDE PCV ROUTE IS COMPLETED. FROM EXIT AT REAR PCV VALVE, THROUGH THE CANS, AND INTO THE VENTURI VALVE

3) the last and outer port towards the rear of the can (rear of car), serves as the tap into the intake manifold and is the full time suction line, which is beneficial at all times, but majority higher rpms (when we drive, be it highway use, traffic, aggressive/sporty or at the track/autoX you're on the gas more than the brakes)


The clean side lines, which normally goes into the passenger side of the intake tube via the nipple....still does so. however evacuation of the front side bridge of clean lines is done so with the clean side separator (which has filtering media within it) and any oil vapors (since they aren't dirty) condense and drop back down the same spout you pour your oil.

Here is a progression of where each line starts and flows towards. Mind you, there's only "a lot of lines" because there are TWO functioning and working catch cans in series installed.

1) The Yellow line flows from the back of the engine to the Mishimoto Can (tried to do the color, but it was not visible)
2) Leaving the "Out" Port of the Mishimoto can, The Red lineflows into the "In Line of the Elite Engineering E2-X can.
3) The Lime Green line flows out of the E2-X and goes into the Venturi Valve
NOTE: AT THIS POINT THE DIRTY SIDE PCV ROUTE IS COMPLETED. FROM EXIT AT REAR PCV VALVE, THROUGH THE CANS, AND INTO THE VENTURI VALVE

4)Lastly The Blue line covers the clean side bridge. the T-section is capped, but both bridges are still open to flow. the flow occurs from left side cylinder head (pass side) to the right side cylinder head (driver side) and then up to the clean side separator, and then back to the left side of the intake manifold. the reason for this is the filtering media inside the CC separator allows any condensed and collected oil to drop back into the oil funnel spout, and the rest of the "clean side air" to go into the intake for combustion. So this still functions in the same manner as it did. it just has a filter media inline before it goes back into the intake port on the left side.




To start with the results:

This was the total collection in the 1st in line, Mishimoto Compact can. granted its a smaller can, It catches. This is after just over 4,000 miles. on a car that just rolled over 45K today getting some new "additions" after work and an errand.



Inside the can, you can see the grit/baked on part, which are the particles in the blowby that catch cans catch. this is what on a stock PCV system ends up getting stuck on the valves and cokes up intake valves. on the older 5th gen LFX engines...the amount of blowby caught was sometime triple to 4 times the amount in similar time frames. I ran an apex V2 can on the past car, and between 5-7K the can was near full and I believe the capacity was like 2 or 3 ounces. so yes, GM has improved their PCV system in the upgraded LGX system, but its not perfect. See This Post for a member who has posted what valves can look like in over time.

I picked these OXO Mini Measuring Cups because I thought they were oh so cute nah, but they did meet the minimum amount of fluid I figured I would have from the catch cans normal amount being caught.





Emptying the Mishimoto can gave me ALMOST a half ounce of fluid. the reason why I said fluid... is because all of this is def not oil (even though one claims the additional vacuum sucks oil from the crankcase). we know that when oil coats something, its thicker and tends to move slower, especially once cooled off. oil is thicker, simple as that. what is being caught is the blowby (all the harmful contaminants,hydrocarbon residues, fuel, and condensation that its vaporized once the oil reaches 212 degrees. a short video of the fluid being shaken. and it certainly didn't smell similar of the actual oil I just changed and took a sample of. nor was it thick as the oil sample. has more of a watery state to it and didn't adhere to the plastic cups in the same manner oil does. especially used oil.




After emptying the Mishimoto can, you can see the gunk that's left behind and what usually builds up on your valves OVER THE YEARS. This is what Seafoam, CRC DI Intake Valve Cleaner, etc have all been developed for, even the BG products most GM dealers use, to clean your intake valves on cars left neglected. The quality of the oil used is part of the solution, but if you can prevent this even reaching that valves and staying in a catch can, being caught.... no explanation needed. the best way to avoid cleaning something up is to never let it get there in the first place.





In the bottom of the measuring cup, you can see once its set still for a few minutes, the different tiers of blowby starts to separate (I believe sat was a 70 degree day). once again, this is minor in comparison to the LFX in the 5th gen. but this is what you DONT want going back and mixing into your oil.



an example of a boosted setup (ATS 2.0) from mishimotos website



you can see the lighter brown stuff is more prevalent. if you google "catch can blowby" there are more examples from mishimoto of tons of different tiers of blowby being caught.

Now with that being shown. Lets view what was getting by the mishimoto can and ending up in the Elite can. the Mishimoto collections are on the left (just under 1/2 ounce) and the Elite E2-X is on the right. just about 1/4 (once again slightly under) of an ounce was caught in the 4000 mile interval.






So far ive done another 400 miles including today since the oil change this past sat. Something else interesting to note, roughly speaking, I've been getting about the same amount in the catch can at each intereval I changed and posted about it, in previous posts over the forums:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=90

So even AFTER ADDING a constant vacuum source, I'm still getting the same amount in the mishimoto can being caught. kinda kills the theory that an extra vacuum source is gonna force more liquid to be sucked into the can. it turns out its pretty much the same amount. Just more are the more harmful blowby/hydrocarbon deposits, which can be seen in the can and at the bottom of the measuring cup. the second can's only purpose has been to show what was actually getting by the first can (which if you look at the combined total of the two, its about 1/3 getting through). Once again, no engine is 100% efficient, and no can is 100% efficient. but the more it catches, obviously the better.

Actual testing, which is what I prefer and why I've taken the time to do so, will always show what's really going on.








If you're new to catch cans and stuff, this post gives you a simple basic explanation with pics. its from camaro5. I still had this saved from when I bought my 5th gen back in 2013.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...96&postcount=1

This is great! Thanks for sharing the write up!!!

[rorymick]

Nui I'm not seeing fuel % dilution in your UOA included in your tribology test, correct?

I was curious to see what your UOA would look like in regards to fuel in the oil.