Z/28 vs 6th Gen ZL1 Nurburgring

[kramard]

I had a little fun this evening... I put the new ZL1 Nurburgring video next to the Z/28's video and (to my utter surprise) the Z/28 was ahead when the rain hit by about .5 seconds! Moreover, before the rain, the Z/28 was 3 to 10mph faster in the turns then the ZL1 but after the rain started the Z/28 was 10mph slower in the turns then the ZL1. Pretty fun video to watch, especially when you see how far back (~3.5 seconds) the Z is before the Karussell and how it makes time up through the twisty back stretch of the track.

This is what happens when you're on solo daddy duty

[G6Flyer]

Would love to have seen a clean (dry) Z/28 lap. Amazing how squirrelly it got after the rain started.

No doubt the new ZL1 is impressive, but the Z/28 is remarkable for having ~150 fewer hp.


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[The_Raging_Bull]

Our Z/28's are standing the test time. As the last new Z's disappear and are sold, its my belief that we'll see the prices find a bottom, then like the C6 Z06 stabilize. Others can bash Chevy, but not me. Time will tell, but limited edition cars that hold their own performance-wise are the stuff of legends...which grow over time.

Clearly the '17 ZL1 is a lower weight Gen 6 frame; with all the bells and whistles...yet it just matches our Gen 5 Z's; in a comparison where the Z/28 is running in the rain for the last two minutes. You're right, the difference is the ability of the Z/28 to outhandle in the twisty back half o the ring. The fact is that a head to head on a dry Nurburgring will never happen now; but Gen 5 Al Openhieser (FBodfather here on the Camaro5 forum)...chief camaro engineer. has listed two lower dry times in various publications..one at 7:30 and a lower one at 7:25.

It would be interesting to see a stage 2/3 Z/28 on the track; as in the straights all that extra power would result in much lower lap times...and would destroy the new ZL1 and a lot of other car's ring times.

BTW that lowest unpublished lap time @ 7:25 lap time on the ring is just behind the C6 Z06 @ 7:22.68, the C6 ZR1@ 7:19.63, the Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 @ 7:25.00,and ahead of the rest of this list: the Ferrari Enzo @ 7:25.21, the KTM X-Bow @ 7:25.72 and the Nissan GT-R @ 7:26.70 >> ha ha!.

Pretty heady company there. If that Z/28 unpublished dry lap time is real >> with the C7Z06 pulling a (as yet officially disclosed) 6:59.13..you have to wonder where a stage 2/3 @ 670 hp NA LS7 powered '14 or '15 Z/28 would land.

...and that would be a 670 hp >> 5.67 lb/hp Z/28 vs a 650 hp >> 5.24 lb/hp C7-Z06 @ 6:59:13

indeed!!

[erickangulo]

Wow.

[Stephen12ZL1]

amazing...the Trofeos are terrible in the rain but epic on dry track. Of course, we can all wonder how well a 6th Gen ZL1 will perform on "R" comp tires.

[iownedu]

I'd love to see a head/cam/intake Z/28 run the ring and get a time!

[Johnhurt]

I was wondering how much faster a Z28 would be with just a cam, exhaust and tune. I bet it would beat the track ready gt350 which would require a s/c or turbo to increase its power which is weight.

[hjdca]

The Z/28 makes up alot of time between 5 and 6 min.. It goes from being behind to being ahead. Thanks for the video !

[JUSTIFIED]

Once it hit the wet, the Z/28 lost 2.5 seconds going through the final twisties & entered the final stretch at ~ 6:42.50 and the final turn at ~ 7:36.48 (hit 160 on the straight). Z/28 driver may not have been pushing it all out due to the rain.

ZL1 entered the final stretch at 6:40.43 and the final turn at ~ 7:28.45 (hit 180 on final straight).

If they had entered the final stretch dead even the ZL1 most likely still finishes ~ 6 seconds ahead.. maybe a bit less if Z/28 had been on a dry track.

So many factors...tires, rain, etc. so it's hard to say for sure, but ZL1's additional power and lighter chasis give it a significant advantage. Both are great cars, but I'd still choose the Z/28 all day every day.

[iownedu]

What the videos tell me is that if you modify the LS7 to 640hp or more, the Z/28 will beat the ZL1 easily.

Pretty awesome considering the ZL1 weighs less and has an automatic trans.

[JUSTIFIED]

Originally Posted by iownedu

What the videos tell me is that if you modify the LS7 to 640hp or more, the Z/28 will beat the ZL1 easily.

Pretty awesome considering the ZL1 weighs less and has an automatic trans.

Forgot about the fact that the ZL1 in that vid is 10 speed automatic. The driver left it in full auto mode too.

[JewelSS]

Great side by side and agree on seeing both in dry weather. Love the Z/28 and the new ZL1 but power to weight ratio it's the ZL1 all day. Z/28 looked like it handled the corners better and more speed but then the ZL1 with more power over took in the straight aways. I would go with the Z/28 for track though being N/A and temp not a factor. A few mods to the Z/28 with a tune and your good. Thanks again Kramard for the video

[pat_t]

Great videos, thanks for putting that together.

A few comments as I can speak from first hand experience driving at the 'Ring (albeit only about 20 laps with a best BTG of 9:12 with traffic)

The first thing I noticed is that to me the biggest difference between these two cars is actually the gearbox. It looks like GM did a great job on that Auto in the ZL1, probably not as seamless as the current European DSG II 'boxes, but quick super quick on the the shifts and always in the powerband. Yes the ZL1 is quicker on the straights, but if you put the ZL1 gearbox in the Z/28 I think you'd halve the difference.

Second thing I noticed is (as you'd expect) how the chassis balance differs between the two. I'm not talking about how the Z/28 is stiffer (it noticeably is) but how the ZL1 inherently goes to understeer, where the Z never once does. Even once the rain comes the Z front end stays nailed and it's the back end loosing traction.

I've attached the screen grab from Wehrseifen the slowest corner on the track, not only is the Z/28 a smidgen quicker through here, but look how much steering lock the ZL1 has got on!!

To me, the combination of the involved manual gearbox, the jiggly-stiff but super-tied-down ride and the aggressive chassis setup combined with massive grip is what attracted me to the Z/28 as such a great driver's car.

The ZL1 might be faster, but watch the video again, there's almost no involvement from the driver. He might as well be playing it on a racing simulator. Turn the wheel, car turns in. Sometimes car understeers, so put a bit more steering lock on, car turns in. Press the accellerator. Press the brake. That's it.

The Z28 driver is waaaaay more involved. Constant corrections, constantly battling with the grip/slip limit on the rear tyres. Constantly making decisions on when to upshift, downshift and match revs. That's what good driving is about. Cars like this are a dying breed unfortunately.

By the way the 9:12 was in an E46 M3. Interestingly it was quite similar in that I tried both manual and SMG gearboxed cars, mine was SMG... easier... but not necessarily better.



I hope to get there in the Z/28 in the next year or two, ought to be able to smash that time...