[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Driver skill is variable that is not a fault of the car.

I'll agree with that, however if what I call a "seasoned" driver that isn't a professional has trouble replicating times the pro attained, or at least something reasonably close, I'd think it pretty useless to throw that time around. It gives us mortals something to strive for but I always question those times and the conditions the runs were made in.

I see guys all the time show up at the track in their GT500s, Z06s, ZL1s, etc etc etc and think they're gonna run the same times as the magazine pro drivers and get flat out embarrassed, which obviously pisses them off. It's gonna happen a lot more often in the stick cars than the autos, but still.

This is one of the major differences I've noticed between the Mopar community and Chevy/Ford. In the Mopar world it's all about what WE can get out of a car and most won't throw around too many magazine numbers. Chevy and Ford guys, at least the ones I've seen, live by magazine times. I thought this was odd as the Mopar guys are usually the older demographic and the ones I thought wouldn't ever track their cars.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I'll agree with that, however if what I call a "seasoned" driver that isn't a professional has trouble replicating times the pro attained, or at least something reasonably close, I'd think it pretty useless to throw that time around. It gives us mortals something to strive for but I always question those times and the conditions the runs were made in.

I see guys all the time show up at the track in their GT500s, Z06s, ZL1s, etc etc etc and think they're gonna run the same times as the magazine pro drivers and get flat out embarrassed, which obviously pisses them off. It's gonna happen a lot more often in the stick cars than the autos, but still.

This is one of the major differences I've noticed between the Mopar community and Chevy/Ford. In the Mopar world it's all about what WE can get out of a car and most won't throw around too many magazine numbers. Chevy and Ford guys, at least the ones I've seen, live by magazine times. I thought this was odd as the Mopar guys are usually the older demographic and the ones I thought wouldn't ever track their cars.

There is a reason why people go by magazine etc. It is the closest to controlling all the variables and a somewhat close to fair comparison. It is a baseline to go from. Hero runs by individuals from everywhere are not a good baseline.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Sven59

There is a reason why people go by magazine etc. It is the closest to controlling all the variables and a somewhat close to fair comparison. It is a baseline to go from. Hero runs by individuals from everywhere are not a good baseline.

Who said anything about "hero" runs? I'd go more by what this forum's database has than some magazine. I can't even tell you what the magazine times are, I've never paid attention to them. Cars are usually provided by the manufacturer with only God knows what tuneup in them. No mention of what fuel is used, how the track is prepped, usually a very vague mention of weather conditions, etc. If they ran the ZL1 at a track in Colorado in the middle of the summer and it put down 12.50s you guys would scream bloody murder LOL Not that GM would ever allow them to do that anyway as I'm sure they'll insist on mine shaft air, perfect track prep, and a pro driver who's given the car for a week to get used to it. That's what I'd do anyway so everyone could buy the car and then say "hey this car runs low 11s bone stock". Oh wait........

The magazine times are the hero runs bud.

EDIT: Maybe I mis-spoke. I googled the times for giggles and see C&D got 3.9 0-60 out of an SS auto, but then only managed a 12.3 1/4 mile time. That seems off to me. Seems the guys on this forum might be able to teach those magazine guys a thing or two since several are in the 11s, or maybe C&D drivers are just average joes. I'll have to see if I can find what a real pro got out of one.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Who said anything about "hero" runs? I'd go more by what this forum's database has than some magazine. I can't even tell you what the magazine times are, I've never paid attention to them. Cars are usually provided by the manufacturer with only God knows what tuneup in them. No mention of what fuel is used, how the track is prepped, usually a very vague mention of weather conditions, etc. If they ran the ZL1 at a track in Colorado in the middle of the summer and it put down 12.50s you guys would scream bloody murder LOL Not that GM would ever allow them to do that anyway as I'm sure they'll insist on mine shaft air, perfect track prep, and a pro driver who's given the car for a week to get used to it. That's what I'd do anyway so everyone could buy the car and then say "hey this car runs low 11s bone stock". Oh wait........

The magazine times are the hero runs bud.

EDIT: Maybe I mis-spoke. I googled the times for giggles and see C&D got 3.9 0-60 out of an SS auto, but then only managed a 12.3 1/4 mile time. That seems off to me. Seems the guys on this forum might be able to teach those magazine guys a thing or two since several are in the 11s, or maybe C&D drivers are just average joes. I'll have to see if I can find what a real pro got out of one.

I guess we should wait for the NHRA certified times.

[DenverTaco07]

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Who said anything about "hero" runs? I'd go more by what this forum's database has than some magazine. I can't even tell you what the magazine times are, I've never paid attention to them. Cars are usually provided by the manufacturer with only God knows what tuneup in them. No mention of what fuel is used, how the track is prepped, usually a very vague mention of weather conditions, etc. If they ran the ZL1 at a track in Colorado in the middle of the summer and it put down 12.50s you guys would scream bloody murder LOL Not that GM would ever allow them to do that anyway as I'm sure they'll insist on mine shaft air, perfect track prep, and a pro driver who's given the car for a week to get used to it. That's what I'd do anyway so everyone could buy the car and then say "hey this car runs low 11s bone stock". Oh wait........

The magazine times are the hero runs bud.

EDIT: Maybe I mis-spoke. I googled the times for giggles and see C&D got 3.9 0-60 out of an SS auto, but then only managed a 12.3 1/4 mile time. That seems off to me. Seems the guys on this forum might be able to teach those magazine guys a thing or two since several are in the 11s, or maybe C&D drivers are just average joes. I'll have to see if I can find what a real pro got out of one.

Unfortunately forum posts (and videos for that matter) can be BS (i.e. hidden mods, bogus time slips, etc...). Just like magazine times can be unrealistic for many "average" drivers. Both should be taken with a grain of salt and one is better off looking at times as a range of times to expect. Not a guarantee of performance.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Unfortunately forum posts (and videos for that matter) can be BS (i.e. hidden mods, bogus time slips, etc...). Just like magazine times can be unrealistic for many "average" drivers. Both should be taken with a grain of salt and one is better off looking at times as a range of times to expect. Not a guarantee of performance.

True. I always forget some get a kick out of lying about their times. We had a guy on the 6 speed top list for the Challenger that everyone knew was BS for a LONG time.

I did go look and seems the previous ZL1 was pretty sluggish for 580HP though. 12.2 and 12.3 quarter mile times reported. The gent who visited the track with us never got below 12.8 I believe. With the Gen6 Camaro hitting those times pretty handily with 100 less hp, I think folks can see why eye brows get raised. It could just be a case of too much power for the tires (likely) and could plague the new ZL1 if Chevy doesn't give it some good meats from the factory. However the trap speeds don't seem to add up either at 116-117 where again the 455HP 2016 achieves that as well. Weight is responsible for some of that though. I've always said anything over 500-550 should come with DRs.

I would personally be a bit pissed if I had a car with 580HP and it only ran low 12s at 116. That should easily be mid mid to high 11s at 118 or so.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

True. I always forget some get a kick out of lying about their times. We had a guy on the 6 speed top list for the Challenger that everyone knew was BS for a LONG time.

I did go look and seems the previous ZL1 was pretty sluggish for 580HP though. 12.2 and 12.3 quarter mile times reported. The gent who visited the track with us never got below 12.8 I believe. With the Gen6 Camaro hitting those times pretty handily with 100 less hp, I think folks can see why eye brows get raised. It could just be a case of too much power for the tires (likely) and could plague the new ZL1 if Chevy doesn't give it some good meats from the factory. However the trap speeds don't seem to add up either at 116-117 where again the 455HP 2016 achieves that as well. Weight is responsible for some of that though. I've always said anything over 500-550 should come with DRs.

I would personally be a bit pissed if I had a car with 580HP and it only ran low 12s at 116. That should easily be mid mid to high 11s at 118 or so.

I remember reading about the 5th gen ZL1 having issues with an over sensitivity to IAT's and heat soak.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

I remember reading about the 5th gen ZL1 having issues with an over sensitivity to IAT's and heat soak.

No doubt. But that's a problem. I believe the latest iteration of the GT500 had similar heat problems and you only get max power for some programmed amount of time, like 9 seconds or something before it starts to drop. I guess that's all fine and good as long as it doesn't drop too much.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

No doubt. But that's a problem. I believe the latest iteration of the GT500 had similar heat problems and you only get max power for some programmed amount of time, like 9 seconds or something before it starts to drop. I guess that's all fine and good as long as it doesn't drop too much.

Go to the 1/4 mile fast list, plenty of stock ZL1s below 12 seconds. Although I am not sure if they were NHRA certified. The factory guys got both the auto and manual below 12.

[Speedy1975]

Looks like the bell curve wants to hit around 11.90 - 12.0, but a few 11.70s and a couple 11.50s. The car should run 11.50 - 11.70 pretty easy especially in a A6. I noticed 99% of the cars below 12s are A6s LOL I'm a hard headed stick driver, but even I have succumbed to the power of auto trans technology these days. The faster times are all in the fall as well, supporting the prior statement that they suffer from IAT issues, whether actual, or simply computer perceived.

If I had one, the first thing I would do is get a data log on those IATs and figure out how to keep them cool. The car is no doubt pulling timing a bit aggressively. Hopefully they put plenty of cooling in the Gen6 version. The Challenger Hellcat doesn't have heat soak AT ALL from what we've seen so far.

The IATs on my aftermarket supercharged Challenger run right about 90° over ambient at the end of the 1/4 mile. They'll start about 120° idling in the staging lanes and top out about 175° or so at the end of the quarter on a 75-85 degree day. That's without any ice on the blower or anything, just straight up temps. I'd be curious how the ZL1 does to compare.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

No doubt. But that's a problem. I believe the latest iteration of the GT500 had similar heat problems and you only get max power for some programmed amount of time, like 9 seconds or something before it starts to drop. I guess that's all fine and good as long as it doesn't drop too much.

The '13-'14 GT500's have a regular rev limiter that allows it to rev to 6250 rpm (peak hp is typically 6000-6250). In addition, they have an over-rev feature that allows it to rev to 7000 rpm for up to 8 seconds of 6250-7000 rpm WOT, for better acceleration. Basically, in a 1/4mi, you would never hit the limit kicking you down to 6250 rpm. The over-rev feature would only really kick in during long stretches of constant 6250-7000 rpm on a road course.

This is probably to combat heat. Many current LT4 Z06 owners have to short shift in order to keep heat/IAT's at bay.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by *007

Maybe you should let someone else drive it then...???

Therein lies the problem. It appears that nobody can drive them. They are turds. A damned shame too. My Dodge buddies always give me crap when one comes to the starting line. Nothing more that I'd like than to see newer Chevy lay down a number. Seems the Caddy run harder. Hopefully the 2017 will knock em dead.

[rayzazoo]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Looks like the bell curve wants to hit around 11.90 - 12.0, but a few 11.70s and a couple 11.50s. The car should run 11.50 - 11.70 pretty easy especially in a A6. I noticed 99% of the cars below 12s are A6s LOL I'm a hard headed stick driver, but even I have succumbed to the power of auto trans technology these days. The faster times are all in the fall as well, supporting the prior statement that they suffer from IAT issues, whether actual, or simply computer perceived.

If I had one, the first thing I would do is get a data log on those IATs and figure out how to keep them cool. The car is no doubt pulling timing a bit aggressively. Hopefully they put plenty of cooling in the Gen6 version. The Challenger Hellcat doesn't have heat soak AT ALL from what we've seen so far.

The IATs on my aftermarket supercharged Challenger run right about 90° over ambient at the end of the 1/4 mile. They'll start about 120° idling in the staging lanes and top out about 175° or so at the end of the quarter on a 75-85 degree day. That's without any ice on the blower or anything, just straight up temps. I'd be curious how the ZL1 does to compare.

Speedy, great to see you still floating around the forums; even after the days of the overly-saturated-with-advertisements challengertalk.com