[infinitereality]

Very end of '19, my cousin put a deposit and ordered a 2020 Hellcat Charger (aka widebody). Not entirely sure what happened, but a week before he was due (I think his wife had a change of heart/cost) and he ended up giving up the 1k and ordering a 3P. He honestly does enjoy the car, it sounds fun and fast, but man... It just seems boring. Then factor in the body of the 3P vs a widebody charger, it's no contest. He still owes me a ride and drive.

That being said, when I started looking for a Camaro, he did try to talk me into one. About how fast it is, such a sleeper, how it handles as good as XXXX, etc... BUT I said it from the get-go about it to it, prefacing it with "no offense", I just can not get over the looks. The upper Tesla models actually do look good and would consider IF I needed a sedan, maybe.

My thought is is.... If I had to see that parked in my garage everyday I'd always regret that decision, but seeing the ZL1 in there makes me smile every single time. That will always be the case too. Like every car I purchase, I don't purchase it to appease anyone but me. If other people like it, awesome. If they hate it, awesome. I guess I'm selfish like that, lol.

[brap999]

Originally Posted by infinitereality

Very end of '19, my cousin put a deposit and ordered a 2020 Hellcat Charger (aka widebody). Not entirely sure what happened, but a week before he was due (I think his wife had a change of heart/cost) and he ended up giving up the 1k and ordering a 3P. He honestly does enjoy the car, it sounds fun and fast, but man... It just seems boring. Then factor in the body of the 3P vs a widebody charger, it's no contest. He still owes me a ride and drive.

That being said, when I started looking for a Camaro, he did try to talk me into one. About how fast it is, such a sleeper, how it handles as good as XXXX, etc... BUT I said it from the get-go about it to it, prefacing it with "no offense", I just can not get over the looks. The upper Tesla models actually do look good and would consider IF I needed a sedan, maybe.

My thought is is.... If I had to see that parked in my garage everyday I'd always regret that decision, but seeing the ZL1 in there makes me smile every single time. That will always be the case too. Like every car I purchase, I don't purchase it to appease anyone but me. If other people like it, awesome. If they hate it, awesome. I guess I'm selfish like that, lol.

The tesla's feel very sterile and boring. I periodically consider one, but there is just nothing about it that excites me. Its a car made by tech nerds (I work in IT myself). I prefer a car made by car nerds.

[Schlok]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Nope. Most hydrogen is made out of steam reformation of natural gas. The alternative is electrolysis of water, but then you are back to the whole "where does electricity come from" thing.

It's not like we can just grab hydrogen from space.

Lol exactly. You've seen the "why not just build a pipeline to Jupiter" stuff. It's hilarious.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Schlok

Lol exactly. You've seen the "why not just build a pipeline to Jupiter" stuff. It's hilarious.

If engines could run off water, & emitted nothing but water vapor these people would still complain about something.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by infinitereality

That being said, when I started looking for a Camaro, he did try to talk me into [a Model 3 Performance]. About how fast it is, such a sleeper, how it handles as good as XXXX, etc...

It doesn't handle that great actually, I'm sure many future e-cars will kill it - and it weighs 4200 lbs. Yes it's quick off the line because of the instant torque but I pull them hard from a roll and it really pisses them off. Like M drivers, they think they own the road, and they get an extra big thumbs down from me as they are getting pulled.

[Vigilante375]

Tesla's are great cars but they have only been good from a stop. Their handling is eh and I like the Model S and Model X interior over the 3 or Y. Who the hell doesn't put a instrument panel in front of the driver? But this is also the company that put in a plane steering wheel into the new Plaid Tesla.

EVs in general are great but will always lack certain things that ICE cars gave.

[infinitereality]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

It doesn't handle that great actually, I'm sure many future e-cars will kill it - and it weighs 4200 lbs. Yes it's quick off the line because of the instant torque but I pull them hard from a roll and it really pisses them off. Like M drivers, they think they own the road, and they get an extra big thumbs down from me as they are getting pulled.

I wish I could comment if it handles that great or not, but he always refers YouTube for comparisons of the 3P vs anything else.........so....yeah...

Every time I hear of a comparison of how their car compares to this higher HP, top speed, lap times, 1/4 times, higher tier, higher quality, etc car I just stop listening. Only thing I get out of those remarks is they like their car because of other people's opinions/reviews and to be honest it seems like an excuse to why they drive what they drive.

I'm simple minded I suppose, I buy a car simply because I love looking at it and driving it.

[DaveC113]

A friend has a M3P and it handles like a sporty Honda Accord. Not bad but not even close to a Camaro.

[396ssrat]

In the not to distant future we are going to begin to see many highway collisions and barbequed people as a result of being force fed the coming electric catastrophe. Wait and see, and you will see it.

[Viper-6]

I actually have a dual motor Model 3 right now as a loaner while my ZL1 is getting some work done. It is amazing off the line!!! That's where it stops for me. The tech is fun, the rear and sides aren't ugly, but that front end is hideous. As a loaner with only the 110 kit to charge I lose capacity through out the week until it can catch up on the weekend. Closest super charger to me is 20 mins the opposite direction which means 40mins back to my house after. This means I just lost about 20% battery. Daily I burn about 20% and get barely that back each day charging about 15hrs, so no running errands without running low by the end of the week. After about 90mph the car feels very light, even though it definitely isn't. Sport mode effects the steering and power mgmt but doesn't seem to do anything for the suspension. There is a Track mode, but some many digital adjustments I have no idea wtf im doing. I could probably enjoy a full size SUV for family stuff, but not as my pride and joy that I turn and look at every time I get out of it.

[infinitereality]

The stop light to stop light is probably fun, maybe even sleeper aspect of the 3P, but once that newness wore off I'd be disappointed personally.

For me, I don't mind the front end, it's side profile I cant' ever come ot terms with. Just looks tiny, even more so for a 4dr.

I cant' remember what he told me YT said it was as far as around The Ring, fixing to see....M5 maybe.

EDIT: M3

[scgms1]

Originally Posted by BUCKEYE NATION

Sadly the market is driving the camaro to its current end. The sales figures don't make sense at this point. Though I love my ZL1, I know it is only time when v8 rwd muscle cars will go the way of the dinosaur. I rode in a neighbors Tesla Model 3 performance and could see why he loves it. Of course I felt like it was like driving a fast wash machine...boring interior...its egg shape....just doesn't pass the eye test. But my buddies model s Ludacris mode was just that, Ludacris! Good thing for us is that our cars will continue up in value as the overall driving mechanics are far more engaging. Just sad...but it makes financial sense for GM to make the decision.

Hi BUCKEYE NATION,

A year ago my son had set up a test drive on a Model 3. I go along for the ride and when we get back after his test drive I ask to drive a Model S. It's a dual motor, and it wasn't set up on Ludacris mode, but... There's a ton of traffic on a Saturday in Orange County - there's a little break in the traffic and I punch it. I'm pinned in my seat, but...

This is vanilla ice cream for me, and don't get me wrong I love vanilla ice cream, but it can be boring...The acceleration was exhilarating and the autonomous driving part was very cool, (although that's a 10k hit for a software upgrade) but there's something about the absence of sounds that left me looking for more. The styling, trim, paint were OK, but nothing spectacular. Handling was decent, but overall I was impressed with a few things and left wanting more for most of the car.

I fix cars for a living so I'm pretty familiar with how things work. My feelings on all this is I'd skip the hybrids. ICE engines today are expensive enough to fix and now you're adding electric to an already expensive car. I have a Tahoe hybrid in the shop now that has a fault with the 2ML70 M99 transmission and the hybrid battery needs to be replaced. It wasn't too long ago that you could buy a decent vehicle to get you from point A to B for what this will cost.

The Tesla's seem to have a few things going for them. Maintenance costs should be fairly low compared to an ICE vehicle and the torque/acceleration from these vehicles.

The downsides seem to outweigh most of the upsides for me. Elon's got these things wrapped up so tight that you're never, ever, going to be working on this. If you're the type that never touches your car that's not a problem. If you're not that type, then you're not going to be able to do much on this. The insurance costs are prohibitively expensive due to the previous comments and the fact that even relatively minor collisions could result in a total loss.

The time to 'refuel' and it's cost.

My son picked up a Model Y and while we're waiting for the local utility to give us a break on electricity he's been using the local supercharger. It'll charge in about 40 minutes and the costs has been around $8.00. Once we got the 'break' from SCE my bill went up $100 from the previous month. Ouch. Sitting in the driveway in the summer sun the car loses 20 miles a day to keep the fans running. Going on a vacation for 2 weeks you'll want to keep this plugged in. The only way this would make any sense would be to add solar, which I've been considering.

The 'hit' we're all paying as taxpayers to fund these cars and solar.

Current battery technology and the mining of lithium, nickel, and other materials that go into production of battery cells. The toxicity of disposal when these have reached the end of life.

Our aging power plants and distribution networks. If we all buy into this green idea what do you think would happen when we all plug into the grid? We're going dark. California is already is close to 98 - 99% capacity on some days. It wouldn't take too much more to push things to the brink and the cascading effects of California going dark would start to go across the interconnected distribution networks. If the end goal is anarchy and the eventual takeover of our lives by government this could be the catalyst. If newer nuclear fuel technologies and NIMB attitudes about electricity don't change, we're not solving the energy shortage we're experiencing. Windmills and solar add new problems. I guess I'll quit rambling on...I think we're nuts, maybe not all of us, but...

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by scgms1

Hi BUCKEYE NATION,

A year ago my son had set up a test drive on a Model 3. I go along for the ride and when we get back after his test drive I ask to drive a Model S. It's a dual motor, and it wasn't set up on Ludacris mode, but... There's a ton of traffic on a Saturday in Orange County - there's a little break in the traffic and I punch it. I'm pinned in my seat, but...

This is vanilla ice cream for me, and don't get me wrong I love vanilla ice cream, but it can be boring...The acceleration was exhilarating and the autonomous driving part was very cool, (although that's a 10k hit for a software upgrade) but there's something about the absence of sounds that left me looking for more. The styling, trim, paint were OK, but nothing spectacular. Handling was decent, but overall I was impressed with a few things and left wanting more for most of the car.

I fix cars for a living so I'm pretty familiar with how things work. My feelings on all this is I'd skip the hybrids. ICE engines today are expensive enough to fix and now you're adding electric to an already expensive car. I have a Tahoe hybrid in the shop now that has a fault with the 2ML70 M99 transmission and the hybrid battery needs to be replaced. It wasn't too long ago that you could buy a decent vehicle to get you from point A to B for what this will cost.

The Tesla's seem to have a few things going for them. Maintenance costs should be fairly low compared to an ICE vehicle and the torque/acceleration from these vehicles.

The downsides seem to outweigh most of the upsides for me. Elon's got these things wrapped up so tight that you're never, ever, going to be working on this. If you're the type that never touches your car that's not a problem. If you're not that type, then you're not going to be able to do much on this. The insurance costs are prohibitively expensive due to the previous comments and the fact that even relatively minor collisions could result in a total loss.

The time to 'refuel' and it's cost.

My son picked up a Model Y and while we're waiting for the local utility to give us a break on electricity he's been using the local supercharger. It'll charge in about 40 minutes and the costs has been around $8.00. Once we got the 'break' from SCE my bill went up $100 from the previous month. Ouch. Sitting in the driveway in the summer sun the car loses 20 miles a day to keep the fans running. Going on a vacation for 2 weeks you'll want to keep this plugged in. The only way this would make any sense would be to add solar, which I've been considering.

The 'hit' we're all paying as taxpayers to fund these cars and solar.

Current battery technology and the mining of lithium, nickel, and other materials that go into production of battery cells. The toxicity of disposal when these have reached the end of life.

Our aging power plants and distribution networks. If we all buy into this green idea what do you think would happen when we all plug into the grid? We're going dark. California is already is close to 98 - 99% capacity on some days. It wouldn't take too much more to push things to the brink and the cascading effects of California going dark would start to go across the interconnected distribution networks. If the end goal is anarchy and the eventual takeover of our lives by government this could be the catalyst. If newer nuclear fuel technologies and NIMB attitudes about electricity don't change, we're not solving the energy shortage we're experiencing. Windmills and solar add new problems. I guess I'll quit rambling on...I think we're nuts, maybe not all of us, but...

Hit the nail on the head.

We greatly lack the infrastructure to make 100% ev a reality. They already can't power everyone's ac, so I guess we'll be sitting at home when blackouts hit. The issues with battery technology and precious metals are always glossed over or ignored completely. Many good points, what the answer is I have no idea, just please don't make an electric camaro. I would agree, humans are crazy

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by scgms1

I fix cars for a living so I'm pretty familiar with how things work. My feelings on all this is I'd skip the hybrids. ICE engines today are expensive enough to fix and now you're adding electric to an already expensive car. I have a Tahoe hybrid in the shop now that has a fault with the 2ML70 M99 transmission and the hybrid battery needs to be replaced. It wasn't too long ago that you could buy a decent vehicle to get you from point A to B for what this will cost.



The Tesla's seem to have a few things going for them. Maintenance costs should be fairly low compared to an ICE vehicle and the torque/acceleration from these vehicles.



The downsides seem to outweigh most of the upsides for me. Elon's got these things wrapped up so tight that you're never, ever, going to be working on this. If you're the type that never touches your car that's not a problem. If you're not that type, then you're not going to be able to do much on this. The insurance costs are prohibitively expensive due to the previous comments and the fact that even relatively minor collisions could result in a total loss.



The time to 'refuel' and it's cost.



My son picked up a Model Y and while we're waiting for the local utility to give us a break on electricity he's been using the local supercharger. It'll charge in about 40 minutes and the costs has been around $8.00. Once we got the 'break' from SCE my bill went up $100 from the previous month. Ouch. Sitting in the driveway in the summer sun the car loses 20 miles a day to keep the fans running. Going on a vacation for 2 weeks you'll want to keep this plugged in. The only way this would make any sense would be to add solar, which I've been considering.



The 'hit' we're all paying as taxpayers to fund these cars and solar.



Current battery technology and the mining of lithium, nickel, and other materials that go into production of battery cells. The toxicity of disposal when these have reached the end of life.



Our aging power plants and distribution networks. If we all buy into this green idea what do you think would happen when we all plug into the grid? We're going dark. California is already is close to 98 - 99% capacity on some days. It wouldn't take too much more to push things to the brink and the cascading effects of California going dark would start to go across the interconnected distribution networks. If the end goal is anarchy and the eventual takeover of our lives by government this could be the catalyst. If newer nuclear fuel technologies and NIMB attitudes about electricity don't change, we're not solving the energy shortage we're experiencing. Windmills and solar add new problems. I guess I'll quit rambling on...I think we're nuts, maybe not all of us, but...

I do want to note that, at least for the Prius, the engine is actually relatively simple. The only modern feature it has is VVT(so it can switch between Otto and Atkinson cycles), but that's it. No DI, no VVL, nothing else, and VVT isn't even that big of a deal nowadays.

When you have electric motors taking care of the ineffecient RPM and load bands of ICE, you no longer need to install a bunch of stuff in the engine trying to compromise for everything.

Honestly, if hybrids are that easy to break, the local taxis would have been dead a long time ago, considering that most of their fleet consists of Prius and hybrid Camry.

But great point on the electricity generation and distribution, but too bad that it doesn't matter in front of the mighty EV Kool-aid.