[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm selfish and I look to what suits my needs. More people wanting the Camaro means that dealerships will take advantage of us. And soon after that we'll be paying ADMs like everyone else. Demand for a product is never something that a customer should brag about. Because all you're doing is a disservice to yourself. Demand helps the seller and hurts the buyer in every case. If you defend it, then you are defending the fact that greedy people will take advantage of you. I doubt you get it. But look at it like this, what if you could go to a Ford dealership right now and buy a GT500 for below MSRP? Would you prefer that over going to a dealership and not being able to get one without dropping $5K into the dealership owner's hands before buying it? I doubt you will answer honestly. You will defend the markups. But deep down inside we all know that nobody is that stupid.

I disagree with your first point. I don't think if more people wanted a camaro it would lead to dealerships taking advantage. Maybe if they had some limited edition model but I think that would be short lived. Around me the 5th Gen Z/28 had mark ups at first, then came down to MSRP then they were knocking 15K off of them to get them off the lot. GM prices seem to level out fairly quickly if there ever is ADM. Even when the Colorado first came out, around here maybe 1500 off MSRP was the best deal you could get. About a year later you could get 3-4K off.

I agree that bragging about demand is stupid. The only thing worth bragging about is if you get a killer deal when everyone else is not.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You won't get flamed because you are speaking the truth. However the thing with Ford is that they are willing to take a loss selling GTs way below MSRP. They make up for it selling the higher trims for more than they're worth. It is good for people on a low budget who penny pinch and scrape together their money to afford a GT. But for those who want something with more performance, they get screwed to high Heavens. So you're either stuck buying base GTs super cheap, or fully loaded GTs for $50K, or spending ZL1 money for a GT350 that in no way compares to a ZL1, or spending more than a Base GT500 for a GT350R and still not getting even ZL1 performance...and then there's the markups. I don't envy Ford at all. With them, all the power is in the hands of the dealers.

Yes and no, Chevy is selling Camaros with huge discounts off the sticker as well. One of the area Chevy dealers is knocking about 5500 off of SS models and on almost 8K off of ZL1s

https://www.hawkchevy.com/VehicleDet...-IL/3552278563

Even my local dealer who isn't as big is knocking almost 4K off Camaros

And we all know Ford isn't seeing any of the extra moneys made on ADM's that all goes in the dealers pocket

[cowpunk]

Knowing how the pony car wars go...wouldn't it be fair to say if the 2020 Shelby GT500 could beat the ZL1-1LE around the track, Ford would be letting everyone know?

No real horse in this race, as I still have a 2010 SS Cam & Exhaust six speed: the longer it's paid for the better it drives-LOL.

You track guys...how can the speed limited 180 mph Ford beat the ungoverned ZL1-1LE on the the bigger tracks?

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by cowpunk

You track guys...how can the speed limited 180 mph Ford beat the ungoverned ZL1-1LE on the the bigger tracks?

It's very rare to see that kind of speed on a road race track in a street car. It will have zero impact at any of the places magazines test lap times.

IIRC, even the Senna didn't hit 180 at VIR for LL 2019.

[cowpunk]

Originally Posted by Rodan

It's very rare to see that kind of speed on a road race track in a street car. It will have zero impact at any of the places magazines test lap times.

IIRC, even the Senna didn't hit 180 at VIR for LL 2019.

Makes sense...thanks

[SlitherByU]

Originally Posted by cowpunk

Knowing how the pony car wars go...wouldn't it be fair to say if the 2020 Shelby GT500 could beat the ZL1-1LE around the track, Ford would be letting everyone know?

No real horse in this race, as I still have a 2010 SS Cam & Exhaust six speed: the longer it's paid for the better it drives-LOL.

You track guys...how can the speed limited 180 mph Ford beat the ungoverned ZL1-1LE on the the bigger tracks?

Nobody see 180 mph no matter what you drive unless you're on a NASCAR track. Fords own driver Billy Johnson got to 140ish on a road course.

[cowpunk]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

Nobody see 180 mph no matter what you drive unless you're on a NASCAR track. Fords own driver Billy Johnson got to 140ish on a road course.

10-4

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

Nobody see 180 mph no matter what you drive unless you're on a NASCAR track. Fords own driver Billy Johnson got to 140ish on a road course.

Speak for yourself. Maybe you can't get that fast. But some of us absolutely can on private road courses.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

Nobody see 180 mph no matter what you drive unless you're on a NASCAR track. Fords own driver Billy Johnson got to 140ish on a road course.

I hit something over 130 on the longest straight at M1 Concourse than just about pooped my pants coming in too hot on the curve coming out of that straight. My car is electronically limited to 150 or 155. I can’t imagine where I could do 180 in any car. Bonneville Salt Flats maybe....

[rocket403]

I raced a Lambo when I was in Vegas and was able to get to around 105 or so on the 1st straight and just about shit when I came to the corner and the ass end slid around a bit before it settled.

I found that I need more seat time in a car before I try and take it around a track. LOL

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I hit something over 130 on the longest straight at M1 Concourse than just about pooped my pants coming in too hot on the curve coming out of that straight. My car is electronically limited to 150 or 155. I can’t imagine where I could do 180 in any car. Bonneville Salt Flats maybe....

There is a lightly used runway at my work. Several of us have hit 180 (or beyond) on that runway. But that is 2 miles long. I cant imagine someone hitting that on a track.

The 180 limiter in and of itself on the GT500 doesn't bother me. The reason it's limited does. (I am making an assumption it is unstable past that speed)

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Maybe on the long straight at the end of the Ring the gt500 could get close to its top speed since it accelerates so fast and has plenty of top end.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I hit something over 130 on the longest straight at M1 Concourse than just about pooped my pants coming in too hot on the curve coming out of that straight. My car is electronically limited to 150 or 155. I can’t imagine where I could do 180 in any car. Bonneville Salt Flats maybe....

While Blaqwhole is measuring something, it's not his car. He wants you to know how much of a badass he is.

I'm super impressed.

[SlitherByU]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Speak for yourself. Maybe you can't get that fast. But some of us absolutely can on private road courses.

Excellent. Hopefully you got a PDR of that.

[whiteboyblues2001]

I've gotten my SS non-1LE up to 140 on the front straight of Summit Point Main (in cold November air, in hot summer air it's closer to 130-135). Can't imagine what I would hit with a superchared car like the GT500 or ZL1...