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Old 12-08-2016, 12:41 AM   #15
ForgedReality
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Kind of glad I'm waiting for the 2018 MY. By then, hopefully all this experimental crap will be worked out. :P
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:54 AM   #16
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Perhaps someone a bit more technically oriented knows the answer to this, but is it typical for the driver and passenger sides to be at a slightly diff height?

The OCD in me wants them exactly the same LOL.

Looks great though. I may be stopping by Ricardo.
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Old 12-08-2016, 07:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal Racer View Post
What affects are there, if any, to the magnetic ride?

...and if desired, is it possible to go any lower without any major issues?
+1
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND View Post
What are the spring rates?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal Racer View Post
What affects are there, if any, to the magnetic ride?

...and if desired, is it possible to go any lower without any major issues?
I am also interested to know what the spring rates, and design are, especially as compared to factory.

And what, if anything, was done to deal with the MR system.

This seems like a subtle drop. But it really finishes the look off...very impressed with the visual results.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:37 AM   #19
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I don't see it affecting the MR at all. My understanding of how it works, is the system monitors all the driver inputs, the sensors to know what the car is doing, and any movements in the suspension from bumps or body roll, to make instantaneous adjustments to either stiffen or soften the shocks. I don't think it uses any sensors to detect ride height, because it has no way to change ride height like air shocks or hydraulics do. The BMW S1000RR HP4 has MR shock and forks on it that work the same way and ride height is adjustable to help tailor the bike for the track.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zl1_tommy View Post
Perhaps someone a bit more technically oriented knows the answer to this, but is it typical for the driver and passenger sides to be at a slightly diff height?

The OCD in me wants them exactly the same LOL.

Looks great though. I may be stopping by Ricardo.
Yes. If the surface is slightly off, the difference will almost always be larger in the rear than the front, because the front sway bar is typically way stiffer than the rear. A mid or rear engine car might have stiffer bars in the rear or they'll be about equal. Even if you had a vehicle sitting on a perfectly smooth and level surface, you'd have a hard time finding a vehicle with exactly the same measurements all around. The differences seen here are so small, you'll never see them unless you stick a measuring tape to it.
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGC1 View Post
Looks great, probably going to do it too. So what's it going to take and what's it going to cost to have this done or have the parts to get it done? Springs and some small adjustments?

Also, does anyone have an idea of why the front ends sit up so high? Is it for regulations, functionality, or a mistake???
No mods needed. The springs we used fit right in place.

Not sure why the front end was sitting so high. We checked in Touring, Sport, and Track, not much of a difference was made between the different modes.

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will. buy. now. PM please
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Shit, i can't tell.
Yea, mother nature decided to bring in a cold front here in Houston so we have cloud coverage for the new few days. I am hoping to get some better pics if it clears up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND View Post
What are the spring rates?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17CamaroZL1 View Post
Good question. And are they progressive or linear?
I will get this info, dont have it right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal Racer View Post
...and if desired, is it possible to go any lower without any major issues?
Possible to go lower, we did not put our test set of the 1.5" we offer on this car only cause we did not want to go any lower then what we already got.

Here are the springs that we used.... BMR
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo@Phastek View Post
No mods needed. The springs we used fit right in place.

Not sure why the front end was sitting so high. We checked in Touring, Sport, and Track, not much of a difference was made between the different modes.



PM Sent



Yea, mother nature decided to bring in a cold front here in Houston so we have cloud coverage for the new few days. I am hoping to get some better pics if it clears up.





I will get this info, dont have it right now.



Possible to go lower, we did not put our test set of the 1.5" we offer on this car only cause we did not want to go any lower then what we already got.

Here are the springs that we used.... BMR
Why did you not address the questions about the impact to mag-ride?
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17CamaroZL1 View Post
I don't see it affecting the MR at all. My understanding of how it works, is the system monitors all the driver inputs, the sensors to know what the car is doing, and any movements in the suspension from bumps or body roll, to make instantaneous adjustments to either stiffen or soften the shocks. I don't think it uses any sensors to detect ride height, because it has no way to change ride height like air shocks or hydraulics do. The BMW S1000RR HP4 has MR shock and forks on it that work the same way and ride height is adjustable to help tailor the bike for the track.
This isn't quite right. The first half of your explanation is correct...MR uses an amalgamation of inputs from yaw, acceleration, braking, steering sensors to determine a setting for the damper. However, one of the most important sensors is in fact, the the suspension travel sensors. I have not clarified whether they measure a static height, or a relative suspension travel distance...but they are there:

Name:  mag_schock_sensor_2de5e66f37179bb9941bc75e6ee16052bbee78d0.jpg
Views: 711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17CamaroZL1 View Post
Yes. If the surface is slightly off, the difference will almost always be larger in the rear than the front, because the front sway bar is typically way stiffer than the rear. A mid or rear engine car might have stiffer bars in the rear or they'll be about equal. Even if you had a vehicle sitting on a perfectly smooth and level surface, you'd have a hard time finding a vehicle with exactly the same measurements all around. The differences seen here are so small, you'll never see them unless you stick a measuring tape to it.
+1 surface differences..bushing resistance...alignment...my 1LE was all out of whack when we measured a baseline before installing Z/28 stuff...it was embarrassing.

For what it's worth (I don't know the Gen 6 specs)...the 5th-gen unilaterally had thicker (stiffer) stabilizer bars in the rear for each model.



.......



Personally, I have just two concerns when modifying the suspension on an MR vehicle....1) Does the shock piston have enough travel left to deal with a full compression situation using a lowering spring...and 2) Does the ride height sensor have enough travel left to deal with a full compression situation.

IF....if the ride height sensor uses a static measurement...then I would have a third concern: will a lower setting due to new springs, cause the suspension to function in a non-optimal part of the calibration?
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
This isn't quite right. The first half of your explanation is correct...MR uses an amalgamation of inputs from yaw, acceleration, braking, steering sensors to determine a setting for the damper. However, one of the most important sensors is in fact, the the suspension travel sensors. I have not clarified whether they measure a static height, or a relative suspension travel distance...but they are there:

Attachment 837547



+1 surface differences..bushing resistance...alignment...my 1LE was all out of whack when we measured a baseline before installing Z/28 stuff...it was embarrassing.

For what it's worth (I don't know the Gen 6 specs)...the 5th-gen unilaterally had thicker (stiffer) stabilizer bars in the rear for each model.



.......



Personally, I have just two concerns when modifying the suspension on an MR vehicle....1) Does the shock piston have enough travel left to deal with a full compression situation using a lowering spring...and 2) Does the ride height sensor have enough travel left to deal with a full compression situation.

IF....if the ride height sensor uses a static measurement...then I would have a third concern: will a lower setting due to new springs, cause the suspension to function in a non-optimal part of the calibration?
I believe the sensor works off of the movement of the suspension , therefore travel of the arm would be a concern if you lower to much. I would think the sensor travel ideally with weight would be in the center of the sensor arm travel. This way you have the same amount of travel up and down. I am sure there is some over travel built into the arm travel. Say 10% in both directions maybe.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:08 PM   #25
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Nice pic Mr Wyndham! I still may be right though. Only a MR engineer can tell us for sure, but I would guess that sensor is more to measure the amount and abrubtness of movement. It could also be used for ride height, because I have those on my Escalade and they are used to help the air ride suspension to level the vehicle the best it can, based on load carrying and driving maneuvers. The only reason I don't think the MR really cares about ride height is because all it can do is change the viscosity of the oil in the shock and I'm pretty sure the ride height isn't going to change that, but I could be wrong. They could've very easily programmed the system to stiffen the shocks the more they are compressed to soften bottoming out the suspension. I still don't see that hurting anything other than maybe the ride comfort not being quite as good. The suspension would still have the same bump stops or whatever it uses to limit the compression .....and extension.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:34 PM   #26
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I lowered my 5th gen ZL1 and while the improvement to the stance of the car was fantastic, it did make the ride quality more harsh. Bumps in the road could be especially jaw breaking. I'm hesitant to do it again on my new ZL1 just for that reason.
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:25 PM   #27
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I'm with Mr. Wyndham regarding the suspension travel/height sensors... I was in an accident last spring and had to replace some front suspension components, including sensors, and MRC/Steering were completely out of whack (car was too soft and the steering felt like a 90's Deville. TC might have been impacted as well, but I didn't test) when everything was first put back together. The company that owns the body shop also owns one of the bigger Chevy dealers in the area and they had to recalibrate those sensors for everything to work properly again - this is just what I was told - they called GM engineers to find out what to do and had to load a custom calibration program for the Gen6 into their computer. After the sensors were recalibrated (unfortunately I didn't talk to the guys at the dealership and I'm not sure what that entails) the car started driving like it should.

When installing my lowering springs I measured where the sensor arms sit, so I can do the same with new springs and make shorter connecting rods to keep the sensors in the same position as stock. I never got around to doing that second part so I don't know if it actually makes a difference or if a 1" drop affects anything to begin with. My recalibration experience doesn't make sense if those sensors are just for measuring rate of suspension compression/rebound

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Old 12-08-2016, 01:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swacer View Post
Why did you not address the questions about the impact to mag-ride?
Mr. Wyndam and the others are making good points as far as the mag ride is concerned. So I didnt see any reason to jump in on it.

To get the look there are going to be some compromises.

Quote:
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I lowered my 5th gen ZL1 and while the improvement to the stance of the car was fantastic, it did make the ride quality more harsh. Bumps in the road could be especially jaw breaking. I'm hesitant to do it again on my new ZL1 just for that reason.
Our customer, and us as well, had the same concerns. After driving the car about 20 miles on Houston roads, Hwy 290 and 1960 area to be more specific, we found that the ride was not that bad at all. We were surprised that the ride was not effected all that much. With a 5th Gen I will agree with you, the ride did change dramatically and was very rough for some reason. Not sure why this car is so different but we liked the way the car handled after the springs.
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