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Old 11-21-2013, 11:49 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Where'd you see this? 2.0 is currently the larger of their 4 cylinder turbo options (here in the U.S.) The 2.3 is a new engine (at least for us) and is going into the new Lincoln MKC crossover first with 270HP and 300TQ. It is then expected to be used in the Mustang with a more aggressive tune. Probably in the realm of 290+ HP and 320+ TQ

I really don't see Ford using 2.0, 2.3, and a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder turbo engines...it seems a bit overkill but if you've got some proof I'd be curious to see it.

Mustang6g follows this stuff pretty dang closely, and I see no mention of a 2.5 there.


Anyways...if GM uses an N/A V6 versus a T4 from Ford, the V6 will always be at somewhat of a TQ disadvantage, but I'm expecting at least 330 or more HP (hopefully 340 or more like the Hyndai Genesis coupe) so the V6 shouldn't be at a HP disadvantage. It just won't be as quick off the line if this is the case.
Taken from the marketing survey given to those who have actually seen the car and broke nda



This might be a good measuring stick
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:53 AM   #44
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Taken from the marketing survey given to those who have actually seen the car and broke nda



This might be a good measuring stick
I saw that as well, but I believe those displacements listed were considered to be "faked" whereas the power listed may be fairly close to expected output.

We'll see soon enough!
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #45
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I saw that as well, but I believe those displacements listed were considered to be "faked" whereas the power listed may be fairly close to expected output.

We'll see soon enough!
yes, all .1 to .2 larger or smaller.

Obviously the rumored 5.5L and 6.2L weren't listed when the survey was taken, but those cars have been spotted in the wild, along with a TT variant.

Also with Ford copyrighting GT350 and Mach 1, again who knows.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:00 PM   #46
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Interesting anecdotes: We have some younger buyers who have bought V6 Camaros - and their friends are teasing them about it..........


..............not because they didn't buy a V8 - but because their friends think a 4 cylinder is the way to go.....

The point in all of this: YOU and I may not want a 4 cylinder engine - but that doesn't mean there may not be a market for it.

You can believe that if Ford intends to offer a 4 cylinder engine - it's been researched in many more ways than just reading this site.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:11 PM   #47
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Interesting anecdotes: We have some younger buyers who have bought V6 Camaros - and their friends are teasing them about it..........


..............not because they didn't buy a V8 - but because their friends think a 4 cylinder is the way to go.....

The point in all of this: YOU and I may not want a 4 cylinder engine - but that doesn't mean there may not be a market for it.

You can believe that if Ford intends to offer a 4 cylinder engine - it's been researched in many more ways than just reading this site.
That definitely happens. But when you have a car as sexy as the 5th gen most people are willing to give up a little something to have that beautiful ride. I have a lot of respect for some of the turbo 4 imports....for their power. Not their looks.

A bit off topic but...

Case in point...my car is 4 years old now. Earlier this week as I went through a fast food drive thru the girl in the window was generally excited to see my car and told me how gorgeous she thought it was. Now how many other cars can do that after 4 years?? Not many at all except for the high end or exotics. Camaro is neither (to many people).

Nail the design first. (yes I know easier said than done)

We all know the cars are going to perform incredibly.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:22 PM   #48
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I'm ok with turbo 4s, or turbo 6s, or any sort of V8. Buy what you want.

I'm ok with having to pay to play. You want a V8, then you'll pay more. OK. I'm good with that.

We got 4 "sizes" of HP for our current Camaros (soon to be 5 when the Z/28 gets here). Not everyone wants or needs max hp. The neat thing is, all Camaros can substitute as a grocery getter and at the flick of the throttle, every one of them can put a smile on your face! Isn't that the point?
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #49
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good!
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:30 PM   #50
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Well my little 4 banger 170hp Sky got the same mpg as my big 323HP V6.... Small doesn't necessarily mean better mileage.
I owned a Turbo Redline Sky, which after the GM factory tune was pushing 290HP and 340tq. Add some high-flow cats and that 3000 lb. car was no joke.

A muscle car is was not, and can't come close to touching my new 1LE. However it would give a stock SS a run for it's money, especially in the corners a stock SS can not hang. Top end is another story, in straight-line a stock SS would overtake it, but the point is that it was a fun a$$ car to drive.

The problem with the Sky was that the design lacked all sense of practicality and didn't have back seat. You couldn't really use this car as a daily driver either as the quality was just not there and is where GM had to skimp just to get the car to production at the price they offered it.

Considering the 6th Gen will based on the Cadillac ATS platform, I could see offering a more sporty coupe style with a small back seat. A turbo 4-cylinder is not the end of the world... but the days of a Camaro being a "muscle car" would be over. I wouldn't call the new Mustang a "muscle car". It seems Ford has already thrown in the towel.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:39 PM   #51
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I owned a Turbo Redline Sky, which after the GM factory tune was pushing 290HP and 340tq. Add some high-flow cats and that 3000 lb. car was no joke.

A muscle car is was not, and can't come close to touching my new 1LE. However it would give a stock SS a run for it's money, especially in the corners a stock SS can not hang. Top end is another story, in straight-line a stock SS would overtake it, but the point is that it was a fun a$$ car to drive.

The problem with the Sky was that the design lacked all sense of practicality and didn't have back seat. You couldn't really use this car as a daily driver either as the quality was just not there and is where GM had to skimp just to get the car to production at the price they offered it.

Considering the 6th Gen will based on the Cadillac ATS platform, I could see offering a more sporty coupe style with a small back seat. A turbo 4-cylinder is not the end of the world... but the days of a Camaro being a "muscle car" would be over. I wouldn't call the new Mustang a "muscle car". It seems Ford has already thrown in the towel.
I'm not a ford fanboy, or a GM one, but throw in the towel is a bad phrase to use here.

The new Mustang will be lighter and faster than the current S197 5.0 powered vehicle. Just because it's base model is getting a turbo 4, does not mean it will not have V8 variety, or even FI V8. They won the last round of the pony car wars in performance, I have a feeling you'll see all three going lighter and more efficient.

I'm sorry but a 3200-3300lb Mustang with a 430hp V8 (rumored S550 specs) is nothing to sneeze at, considering the current S197 weighs around 3600-3700 and has 420hp, and outruns the SS in the 1/4 and 0-60. Let's not even talk about ZL1 to GT500 power to weights either. It's going to be tough to wrestle the 2+2 RWD performance car crown from Ford again in this generation, but let's hope GM steps up to the plate with a lighter, more powerful Camaro, as competition is a good thing.

It's adapting, not giving up. Chevy can't keep a bloated Camaro as well, hence they're dropping weight (Alpha) and going with more efficient drivetrains as well.

It's ok to be proud of your car, but don't let brand loyalty blind you. If anything, the HP wars are getting more exciting as cars are dropping weight and going up in power.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:48 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seer View Post
I'm not a ford fanboy, or a GM one, but throw in the towel is a bad phrase to use here.

The new Mustang will be lighter and faster than the current S197 5.0 powered vehicle. Just because it's base model is getting a turbo 4, does not mean it will not have V8 variety, or even FI V8. They won the last round of the pony car wars in performance, I have a feeling you'll see all three going lighter and more efficient.

I'm sorry but a 3200-3300lb Mustang with a 430hp V8 (rumored S550 specs) is nothing to sneeze at, considering the current S197 weighs around 3600-3700 and has 420hp, and outruns the SS in the 1/4 and 0-60. Let's not even talk about ZL1 to GT500 power to weights either. It's going to be tough to wrestle the 2+2 RWD performance car crown from Ford again in this generation, but let's hope GM steps up to the plate with a lighter, more powerful Camaro, as competition is a good thing.

It's adapting, not giving up. Chevy can't keep a bloated Camaro as well, hence they're dropping weight (Alpha) and going with more efficient drivetrains as well.

It's ok to be proud of your car, but don't let brand loyalty blind you. If anything, the HP wars are getting more exciting as cars are dropping weight and going up in power.
I have to agree. The market is constantly shifting. Moreover, companies like GM and Ford have different goals. Ford is not the top grossing automaker and doesn't require the sales that GM does just to fund operations. GM's sales lead is almost misleading in that it only shows leadership in the pony car segment and not the massive expense of running the world's largest automaker. One might argue that if GM wasn't in the lead on such a halo-esque—albeit not halo due to the Corvette's standing—product it would reflect not only a poor product but a poor company. I wouldn't make these arguments personally, but I could see them being justified from a business standpoint.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:38 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Seer View Post
I'm not a ford fanboy, or a GM one, but throw in the towel is a bad phrase to use here.

The new Mustang will be lighter and faster than the current S197 5.0 powered vehicle. Just because it's base model is getting a turbo 4, does not mean it will not have V8 variety, or even FI V8. They won the last round of the pony car wars in performance, I have a feeling you'll see all three going lighter and more efficient.

I'm sorry but a 3200-3300lb Mustang with a 430hp V8 (rumored S550 specs) is nothing to sneeze at, considering the current S197 weighs around 3600-3700 and has 420hp, and outruns the SS in the 1/4 and 0-60. Let's not even talk about ZL1 to GT500 power to weights either. It's going to be tough to wrestle the 2+2 RWD performance car crown from Ford again in this generation, but let's hope GM steps up to the plate with a lighter, more powerful Camaro, as competition is a good thing.

It's adapting, not giving up. Chevy can't keep a bloated Camaro as well, hence they're dropping weight (Alpha) and going with more efficient drivetrains as well.

It's ok to be proud of your car, but don't let brand loyalty blind you. If anything, the HP wars are getting more exciting as cars are dropping weight and going up in power.
The S550 will weigh 3400+ with the coyote. The 13's weigh 3600. 200 pounds is pretty big diff though. I just hope it looks good, cuz the 13's are awesome looking.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:43 PM   #54
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The S550 will weigh 3400+ with the coyote. The 13's weigh 3600. 200 pounds is pretty big diff though. I just hope it looks good, cuz the 13's are awesome looking.
The mules are weighing in less. I own a 2012 Premium, its 3720lbs.
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:44 PM   #55
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The mules are weighing in less. I own a 2012 Premium, its 3720lbs.
That's cuz they are mules. Full production s550 coyote's will weigh 3400+
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:46 PM   #56
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That's cuz they are mules. Full production s550 coyote's will weigh 3400+
Sorry, pre production mules, meaning equipped. The car went on a significant diet.
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