[Eldi Z]

Dexos has an "Approved List". Any oil in this list is certified and safe to use.

https://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2/
https://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-about/#specTable

[baron95]

I'm not an oil expert, so maybe someone here can answer this...

Given that I don't drive my 1LE in weather below about freezing (32F/0C) and my 1LE will be mostly driven to/from/on track, is 5W40 better than 0W40? Or does it matter for my conditions?

[Deakins]

The HP supplement that you quoted is telling you to change over to the Dexos2 for the track event. It's not outright telling you to drive full time on it because there are regulations in place regarding catalytic converter life and the dexos2 will not allow the emissions system to function well enough, long enough for the government. If you read the press release and literature regarding the new reccomendation for 0w40, it is specific to one mobil1 product. It has additives that will not degrade the emissions system so they can officially recommend it for full time use.

As far as the viscosity you choose and what is better, that's a difficult question to answer. Oils are very complicated and comparisons are difficult to make unless you narrow it down to specific brands and products. Also, what are you looking to do with the car? To be honest there isn't a 1 size fits all answer since your temperatfures will fluctuate quite a bit over the year. For cooler track days something like Driven 5w30 would be great, once the temps got higher you could switch to their 5w40. I personally would stay with the 5w running on the track and leave the 0w for the street cars but that's just me.

The ESP Mobil oil is pretty solid for an OEM recommendation but remember they are balancing many variables when designing the oil and not many of them deal with the ultimate engine protection.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Deakins

The HP supplement that you quoted is telling you to change over to the Dexos2 for the track event. It's not outright telling you to drive full time on it

The Supplement is very clear, and the information is also on the normal 2018 owners manual.

It says clearly that you should change oils to one of the oils listed. And if you choose one particular one on their list (Mobil 1 15W50) then you need to change it back after the track even.

It is plainly and completely clear that you don't need to change it back if you choose one of the other options (which include any Dexos2 0/5W40).

Mobil 1 0W40 is simply the oil, among the ones meeting the Dexos2 spec that won the GM corporate contract. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything in the press release is normal marketing, and says absolutely nothing about the other Dexos2 0/5W40 being less capable than the Mobil 1 Dexos2 oil.






P.S.

I'm sorry to harp on this, but it is a pet peeve of mine, when I see people posting that you have to do all these things that come at some expense and hassle that end up discouraging more people from participating on track days.

As an HPDE instructor I am sick and tired of having students come in believing they need to do this gigantic list of things and spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to come do 4 20 min beginner sessions on track.

Please, lets separate what must be done, from what is recommended to be done, from what some people like to do because they believe it is good to do.

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by Deakins

For cooler track days something like Driven 5w30 would be great, once the temps got higher you could switch to their 5w40. I personally would stay with the 5w running on the track and leave the 0w for the street cars but that's just me.

This is 100% wrong you need to run a 40wt oil for the track due to eleveated engine temps it has nothing to do with outside temp.

A 0W40 will flow better at lower temps ion start-up than 5W40 but 5W is speced in a lot of cars to below zero so either is fine. Both are 40wt at operating temps

Tldr: if you are tracking the car follow what's written in the manual for doing that. Dexos2 40wt oil.

[Deakins]

Originally Posted by baron95

The Supplement is very clear, and the information is also on the normal 2018 owners manual.

It says clearly that you should change oils to one of the oils listed. And if you choose one particular one on their list (Mobil 1 15W50) then you need to change it back after the track even.

It is plainly and completely clear that you don't need to change it back if you choose one of the other options (which include any Dexos2 0/5W40).

Mobil 1 0W40 is simply the oil, among the ones meeting the Dexos2 spec that won the GM corporate contract. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything in the press release is normal marketing, and says absolutely nothing about the other Dexos2 0/5W40 being less capable than the Mobil 1 Dexos2 oil.






P.S.

I'm sorry to harp on this, but it is a pet peeve of mine, when I see people posting that you have to do all these things that come at some expense and hassle that end up discouraging more people from participating on track days.

As an HPDE instructor I am sick and tired of having students come in believing they need to do this gigantic list of things and spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to come do 4 20 min beginner sessions on track.

Please, lets separate what must be done, from what is recommended to be done, from what some people like to do because they believe it is good to do.

Funny, how you interpret the manual and how I interpret it are different (mostly because I understand the regulatory reasons as to why the type N oil was developed). To be frank if you see no detrimental effect to the catalyst system (the science clearly shows that there is) why are you limiting yourself to the Dexos2 oils? There are a vast array of engine oils that far outperform that standard and if you feel that there's no science or concern behind EPL levels why not put some real performance oil in there?? The simple and answer is you probably have no idea what I'm talking about and like many on here just want some support from the fellas. Hey, it's all good. We'll keep it simple. For some very good technical reasons you will want the 0w version if the engine is going to see a lot of cold start ups and temps below 200*. If it won't and it'll spend most of its time about 250* then you will want the 5w variant. There, you can sleep well at night.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Deakins

why are you limiting yourself to the Dexos2 oils?

Simply to stay within GM's recommendation and have one less reason for warranty questions should something happen on track.

Also, when I get my 2 free oil changes, Dexos2 0W40 is what will be available at the dealer.

If it were not for those reasons, I'd be running 15W50 all season long - I don't keep my cars long enough to care about their long term emissions performance.

[Deakins]

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

This is 100% wrong you need to run a 40wt oil for the track due to eleveated engine temps it has nothing to do with outside temp.

A 0W40 will flow better at lower temps ion start-up than 5W40 but 5W is speced in a lot of cars to below zero so either is fine. Both are 40wt at operating temps

Tldr: if you are tracking the car follow what's written in the manual for doing that. Dexos2 40wt oil.

This right here, confirms that you really don't understand much of anything about engine oils. I get it, you don't understand the different base stocks, the way a "multi-grade" oil is made, how this is reflected in the viscosity index, how regulations on catalyst system life determines additive levels, and how all of this adds up to your statement is 100% wrong! The oil I referenced, with its viscosity index, with its additive package is every bit as resistant to flow at the peak oil temps that I see on track as your 5w40. It's also right there in sheer as well in case you're curious (all backed up by oil analysis funded by me).

I understand, your manual tells you that you gotta have this 5w40. It tells you that if you don't, your cars gonna die a horrible death...well not really but that where a lot of owners end up. The truth of the matter is, GM knows you're not going to go out and open up the thick text books on this subject like I did and understand that oils are very complicated and not one size fits all simple products; instead, they are going to make a recommendation that statistically performs well enoough to keep warranty claims in check. Hence, Dexos oil is the only recommended oil...but this recommendation is not solely made with regards to the ultimate engine life. That pesky emissions system that uncle Sam is so interested in has a major part in that oil spec because the science is there to show system degradation over time with EPL.

In a nutshell, if you honestly believe that Dexos oils are the best oils for track day usage....You are wrong. They are however, good enough to get you through a reasonable amount of engine life while also enabling the emissions system to function for the mandated amount of time as well (on average). There's no free lunch....and maybe next time crack open one of those thick books before you call someone out as being 100% wrong.

Also, I'm not going to get into why I have an ambient temperature as part of my recommendation. Looking at an oil with only regards to 2 testing points will not allow us to even have the discussion on why 2 engine oils, one 5w30 and the other 5w40, will not flow the same once taken above or below those points in almost every scenario. Since the LT1 doesn't have oil heaters...that means the oil will get cold at some point...

[Deakins]

Originally Posted by baron95

Simply to stay within GM's recommendation and have one less reason for warranty questions should something happen on track.

Also, when I get my 2 free oil changes, Dexos2 0W40 is what will be available at the dealer.

If it were not for those reasons, I'd be running 15W50 all season long - I don't keep my cars long enough to care about their long term emissions performance.

Hey more power to you and best of luck. To be honest if I lose an engine on track I'm not gonna plan on GM covering it. It's all stock and I would turn it in but it's always been my rule to never take something to the track that I couldn't simply leave at the track. I managed to squeeze in 30 hours on track last summer but don't think work will free up enough for that this year. This being an adult thing is over rated lol.

[RacerX78]

Just had my 500 mile oil change with factory fill dexos1 synthetic blend. Talked to the service adviser and especially because the LT1 takes 10qt. I'd have to pay the difference if i wanted to have my "free" changes done with dexos2 grade oil. That said if you can get your changes done without having to pay extra more power to you.

I'll be having them do the 1000mi oil change the same way and then immediately changing it over to dexos2 5w40(either motul or valvoline). I'll also be using the UPF64R oil filter going forward as well. 5w30 is required because it helps them meet fuel economy, emissions standards & better peak performance. GM knows most people will daily dive their SS and never really push the oil to its lubricating and thermal limits, so why not. They also know there are some of us will push the car further, which is the reason for the HP Supplement. So GM built the LT1 to be compatible with high grades to protect it when being push on track. Subaru did the same thing where their EJ257 had different oil requirements in places where emissions weren't so strict.

That being said given i plan on tracking and DD my 1LE, its better for me to just run 5w40 all the time. Its good for moderate winters and warm track days. I'll do this while running 3000mi OCI and getting UOA to make sure there are no problems. I'm willing to trade MPG & some performance for better protection. I did the same with the last two STi's when i ran 5w-40 and had no issues or noticeable impact to my mpg.

One thing i'm interested in is the physical difference between the Camaro's LT1 and the Corvette LT1 w/Z51 package beside the dry sump system. As the Z51 Vette requires 15w50 when on track. Looking at the GM create engine site it doesn't look like there is a difference besides the oiling system. It may not be recommended by Chevy for the Camaro but 15w50 or 5w50 may be something to consider for track days.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by RacerX78

One thing i'm interested in is the physical difference between the Camaro's LT1 and the Corvette LT1 w/Z51 package beside the dry sump system. As the Z51 Vette requires 15w50 when on track.

First of all, the dry sump thing is a big thing. Secondly, the Z51 does just fine with 5W30 Mobil 1 Dexos 1 oil - I know because I tracked one for three years, without a problem. Thirdly, GM has just approved 0W40 for the C7 Z51 and Z06 street and track, all models - so says Tadge.

I think the main difference between the Z51 and the Camaro is the cooling package for the engine. Not only does the Camaro have a lot more front air ingest, it has a better cooling package, with 11 heat exchangers IRRC.

Cooler temps = less demand on lubricants.

That is one of the reasons (not the main one) that made me buy a Camaro 1LE vs a Grand Sport to replace my Z51.

[RacerX78]

Originally Posted by baron95

First of all, the dry sump thing is a big thing. Secondly, the Z51 does just fine with 5W30 Mobil 1 Dexos 1 oil - I know because I tracked one for three years, without a problem. Thirdly, GM has just approved 0W40 for the C7 Z51 and Z06 street and track, all models - so says Tadge.

I think the main difference between the Z51 and the Camaro is the cooling package for the engine. Not only does the Camaro have a lot more front air ingest, it has a better cooling package, with 11 heat exchangers IRRC.

Cooler temps = less demand on lubricants.

That is one of the reasons (not the main one) that made me buy a Camaro 1LE vs a Grand Sport to replace my Z51.

I'm glad you had a positive experience running track days on dexos1. But I would need more context around that statement for it to carry weight.

• Was your Vette DD?
• Did it have over 60k miles?
• How many annual track days did you do?
• Did you always use the same oil on the same OCI?
• Did you consistently have your oil analized, to track its wear over time? And come pair it to averages?

There is a lot you can do to a new engine for a long time, and not have problems show up. Not that say yours did, just that without more proof I'm more inclined to follow the engineers.

Even in for the Vette they state for track events...

Caution: Not changing the engine oil to15W-50 may cause enginedamage. Engine oil must be changed to 15W-50 synthetic.

So even they are advocating for a non-dexos oil for the best protection and durability when tracked. So if nothing else the LT1 engine has clearances for something well above the dexos1 factory fill. Now I do agree with your point about cooling. After the LT4 Z06 numerous reports of over heating, including in magazine testing. GM knew they had to make sure to seriously address cooling in their next performance car which was the ATS-V. There they showed off an impressive array of cooling solutions. Given they platform sharing and the fact that the Camaro has a big face I know it has better cooling capabilities. That's one of the reasons I bought it, because there aren't many performance vehicles that stock put that much effort into thermal capacity. I'm also sure the dry sump system runs differently to allow it to pump the high viscosity without causing pressure drops when on track. That may be the very reason they only advocate a 5w40 for the Camaro and its wet sump system(but the non-z51 also has the same 15w50 recommended for track duty as well).

What I can say is that given what the engineers suggest for the Camaro, I don't see a reason you can't run 5w40 daily. Yes you do track some fuel economy and HP, but that our price we pay. I would suggest to anyone who tracks their car that they do a UOA to they can track the wear on their engine and adjust their lubrication needs accordingly. Baron if you feel comfortable running dexos1 while tracking, and have the proof to support your claims have at it. Knowing myself and how I drive I'm better served by running the better protecting spec oil.

P.S. The standard LT1 crate motor calls for dexos1 5w30 or 15w50(Track Duty) for both the wet and dry sump motors. LT1 Crate Motor: Install Guide

[baron95]

I called the service manager (have an appointment for oil change on Thursday), to ask about the availability of Dexos2 0W40 and if they could use my supplied oil if they didn't have it.

He said "We have it in stock".

I asked again - Dexos2 0W40 for the new Corvettes and Camaros. He said "yep, have it in stock".

So, I'm bringing it in on Thursday. But I'll bring my own oil as well, just in case he is mistaken.




Has anyone else confirmed that their dealers has the new Dexos2 oils?

[baron95]

Originally Posted by RacerX78

I'm glad you had a positive experience running track days on dexos1. But I would need more context around that statement for it to carry weight.

• Was your Vette DD?
• Did it have over 60k miles?
• How many annual track days did you do?
• Did you always use the same oil on the same OCI?
• Did you consistently have your oil analized, to track its wear over time? And come pair it to averages?

As I stated before, long term performance or emissions system is of zero concern to me. My only concern is to get the car to last 3 years without major failure and/or warranty coverage issues.

I prob did something like 30 track days. Since I usually use race (with race car) ˜1/2 the time, and track with track car (Corvette before, now Camaro) ˜1/2 the time.

I can't remember exactly but my Corvette had something like 15K miles after 3 seasons. Prob no more than 20K miles.

I changed the oil only 3 times during that period - all covered by GM, and all using Mobil 1 5W30.

EVERY SINGLE SESSION on my Z51 ended with an overheat event - 90% plus being the transmission overheating. I had to change my driving to upshift at 5,500RPM to have any chance of completing a 20 min session. Shifting at redline would do the car in within 10 min.

I hope the same doesn't happen with the Camaro, or I'd be very pist off. That is one reason I will switch to a more track appropriate oil. I intend to shift at 6,000RPM+ and run full sessions.